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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I love how they do this. They think we teach this and then send a baby in Christ out in the world and expect them to just change by themselves. That is the reason God instituted church communities and discipleship. so we can help a person Grow in Christ, and be there to help them when they struggle.
You won't get an answer, because they can't find one, it is just their excuse to answer their own legalism. It is the same reason the pharisee rejected Christ, He said all they had to do is believe in him to be saved, they laughed at him also.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
i will have some tasty treats while im waiting.
Help yourself anyone.
ya better keep them coming, we will be waiting for awhile, Have any coffee or should I bring some?
A
Abiding
Guest
I know this is a part of growth and sounds wrong. It did for me.
I spent over a decade spinning my wheels. And I might add in
goodworks and sinlessness best i could. A witnesser as they call
one almost daily. Ran home fellowships. etc
Im not saying any of that is bad.
I understand the heart of some and their sentimant. And although
the Pharisees got it wrong, i dont think all strivers have a pharisee
heart. But as you said have not been trained in knowledge to see
the rest and comfort of our blessed hope. And that in peaceful
abiding and trust IN CHRIST. We accomplish more with less effort.
Their strawman is to accuse the ones that have faith not in themselves
as if they are just dead, sinlovers, proud, arrogant...and not interested
in pursuing holyness.etc
But the truth is we are the opposite of that when we trust.
Seems to me it may be possible that the strivers are prone to that.
A
Abiding
Guest
A
Abiding
Guest
A
Abiding
Guest
1 John 5:18
New International Version (NIV)
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
1 John 5:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 5:18
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him
. There is more in 1John. But this is enuf for now.
If a Saved person cannot continue in sin.
I hope i can point out something:
How can a man lose his salvation for continuing in sin. When God says he cant continue in sin.
If he cant then how could he lose his salvation for it? Theres no way out of this.
Me thinks if you want to preach...preach the gospel to those living in habitual sin so they can be saved.
To believers preach grace and nurturing applications to strengthen them. Not doom.
Go back to the parable of the sower and the seed and understand who is and is not saved.
And then you will understand why they were told to go on...to the end.
Other mistakes are made not understanding rewards, and the different ways the word salvation
is used.
If a man is living in habitual sin...he wont hear you anyway.. And Christs bloodbought dont
need their faith weakened. By your doubt in the promises of God.
Although there are hundreds to pick from im thinking of the superchristian, Jesus said He never knew
workers of iniquity. Never Knew. Never Saved. Alot of works tho.
New International Version (NIV)
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
1 John 5:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 5:18
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him
. There is more in 1John. But this is enuf for now.
If a Saved person cannot continue in sin.
I hope i can point out something:
How can a man lose his salvation for continuing in sin. When God says he cant continue in sin.
If he cant then how could he lose his salvation for it? Theres no way out of this.
Me thinks if you want to preach...preach the gospel to those living in habitual sin so they can be saved.
To believers preach grace and nurturing applications to strengthen them. Not doom.
Go back to the parable of the sower and the seed and understand who is and is not saved.
And then you will understand why they were told to go on...to the end.
Other mistakes are made not understanding rewards, and the different ways the word salvation
is used.
If a man is living in habitual sin...he wont hear you anyway.. And Christs bloodbought dont
need their faith weakened. By your doubt in the promises of God.
Although there are hundreds to pick from im thinking of the superchristian, Jesus said He never knew
workers of iniquity. Never Knew. Never Saved. Alot of works tho.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think this says it all. Since they doubt, they don't have faith, Their faith is in themselves and not in God and his promises. Thats why so many will be so upset in that day when God tells them to depart for he never knew them.
C
cfultz3
Guest
A very long time ago, in the eons of threading, it was asked:
How can a man lose his salvation for continuing in sin. When God says he cant continue in sin. If he cant then how could he lose his salvation for it? Theres no way out of this.
-- How can a man become stubborn to God's beckoning once he has been delivered from his bondage, as those in the wilderness did? What becomes of a man who resists the tilling of the Spirit and produces only thorns and biers, whose curse is a burning? People say we cannot sin (seeing that we have the seed of God in us). This is true. But the grieving of the Spirit, which Spirit is only giving to the sons as a seal of the Covenant, is the only unpardonable sin. When we do not yield to His tilling, all the more, we become a wasteland, and as we abandon Him in His working of us toward perfection, He sets there with tears in His eyes, grieved in knowing no appropriate herbs can be produced. Grieve not the Spirit who was given to you, the sons and daughters of God.
How can a man lose his salvation for continuing in sin. When God says he cant continue in sin. If he cant then how could he lose his salvation for it? Theres no way out of this.
-- How can a man become stubborn to God's beckoning once he has been delivered from his bondage, as those in the wilderness did? What becomes of a man who resists the tilling of the Spirit and produces only thorns and biers, whose curse is a burning? People say we cannot sin (seeing that we have the seed of God in us). This is true. But the grieving of the Spirit, which Spirit is only giving to the sons as a seal of the Covenant, is the only unpardonable sin. When we do not yield to His tilling, all the more, we become a wasteland, and as we abandon Him in His working of us toward perfection, He sets there with tears in His eyes, grieved in knowing no appropriate herbs can be produced. Grieve not the Spirit who was given to you, the sons and daughters of God.
C
cfultz3
Guest
One who accuses others of false accusations of what they do or do not believe, and then turns and accuses others of having faith in themselves and doubt the promises of God because they say we are responsible for our own deeds and are held accountable for them, and then go as far as implying they will go to hell is no better than the accuser of the brethren who reversely smirks at the suppose ignorance of others and than praise God they are saved while those fools will die forevermore.
A
Abiding
Guest
Grieving the Holyspirit...how did you spin that into the unforgivable sin?
Those in the wilderness..were not Born of God.
Did the verse say he can not continue in habitual sin? What was the intent if the Holyspirit in that verse?
C
cfultz3
Guest
Grieving the Holyspirit...how did you spin that into the unforgivable sin? -- How is the Spirit grieved? Rejection? Sins against the Father is forgiven. Sins agains the Savior is forgiven. We know that the administration of the Spirit is to woo souls into salvation. To grieve Him in this process means to reject His wooing and thus by such, He is griefed (held back). Perhaps it is my fault for your misunderstand, seeing that 'grieving' has more than one dimension
Abiding, instead of asking someone to explain themselves, which is the least one can do in a civil conservation and one thing I am more than willing to do, you instead accuse me again of being a spin doctor. This is unbecoming. If you do not agree with me, that is fine, but please do not attack me in a manner which makes me look diabolic, if not a down right spinner of Truth.
Those in the wilderness..were not Born of God. -- Not a one of all humans who has ever lived before Christ's death and the introduction of the Spirit was ever reborn, seeing that they were of the Law, but we, under Christ, are spiritually reborn. The moral of that story was their deliverance from their burdon and on their way to God's rest, some fell to the way side by their actions.
Did the verse say he can not continue in habitual sin? -- In my last statement there were plenty of verses spoken about, mind telling me which one please?
What was the intent if the Holyspirit in that verse? -- waiting for the verse.
Abiding, instead of asking someone to explain themselves, which is the least one can do in a civil conservation and one thing I am more than willing to do, you instead accuse me again of being a spin doctor. This is unbecoming. If you do not agree with me, that is fine, but please do not attack me in a manner which makes me look diabolic, if not a down right spinner of Truth.
Those in the wilderness..were not Born of God. -- Not a one of all humans who has ever lived before Christ's death and the introduction of the Spirit was ever reborn, seeing that they were of the Law, but we, under Christ, are spiritually reborn. The moral of that story was their deliverance from their burdon and on their way to God's rest, some fell to the way side by their actions.
Did the verse say he can not continue in habitual sin? -- In my last statement there were plenty of verses spoken about, mind telling me which one please?
What was the intent if the Holyspirit in that verse? -- waiting for the verse.
BOOKSENDS, BOOKSENDS, why dost thou persecute me?
Yes, it's true, one who has Me and spits me out can NOT come again to repentence .
Why are these verses so hard to understanD, OSAS ?
()(()()()()()))DEAR LORD....AMEN, my sweet heavenly Father, why
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Mari, the above verses fully explain WHY we are to follow Him by virtue of what will happen when we have been reborn of God, of Him, and, then left Him, which can, indeed, happen.
The Scripture Ariel posted is fully explaining to that God wants us to assume His Helper unto our being.
, I pray with wisdom from ReignisHis, cfultz and others efectively preaching Truth , from Scripture. Tis is heavy, heavy stuff right now, the heaviest I've become involved with doing and the Lord leads me now to judge righteously, and,vteling others that they are saved by grace, without the THROUGH FAITH part (of ephesians 2:8) is FALSE to a 'firey lake' core of teaching. It is essence of falsely teaching and not assuming ownership of understanding of the whole of the Word which is ALL written for Holy Spirit inspired reproof and correction. (1 Tim. 3:16)
Note: I tried to talk last night again but was on this thread, as you see I answered your question, but, I will say this: Following the Holy Spirit is an active, knowing act, and, Jesus makes that clear by saying He is giving us a 'Helper' after He leaves but He MUST be 'received,' and Bristle also MUST 'permit' Him to come unto us . Some Scripture for latter said is Hebrews 6:3 . God bless you, too, milady
I think you are wrong, the only reason why it's impossible to fall away after regeneration is because once you become regenerated, a Child of God by adoption, you are sealed by the HS. There are no scripture in which talk about a true child of God losing his or her sonship in Christ. There are no scriptures that talk about stricking a true believer from the will of God's inheritance. You have to interpret Hebrews 6:4 in regards to what the whole bible says, not by itself.
John 10:28-29
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.Ephesians 1:13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
1 Corinthians 1:6-86 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:14
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
You, trying to use the word of against me is disgraceful for a Christian. Where is your love? I will not allow you to try steal my Joy in Christ. Your words against me is my witness of your fruit. The Holy Spirit with in me is my witness of my salvation.
A
Abiding
Guest
Their deliverance was from the bondage of the Egyptians, not from the bondage of Sin. Their deliverance was but a type of deliverance we experience when we put our trust in the atoning work of Christ. Yes they did make their hearts stubborn, but God reserved from himself a remnant who's hearts still clung to Him. Those who progress backwards in their faith, or non-faith rather, all their life and never call on the Lord authentically for forgives are not saved. Many will speak of the Lord as their savior, but the Lord is far from them. But as long as God keeps that person alive that person always has the chance to have His sin wiped clean by the blood of Jesus. Judas is a prime example of this, he was only interested in the things that were on the Masters table, not in the Master himself.
Peter denied Christ 3 times, but received the forgives of God. Did not Jesus say if we deny the Him He will deny us before the Father. Matt. 10:23
33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Thus using your rules for salvation, Peter lost his salvation. Put a fork in it! I done with it
C
chuinchoy
Guest
The bible tells us that the moment we confess that we are sinners and believed that God has risen Jesus from dead, WE ARE SAVED. Thus SALVATION comes from God. It is God's grace for mankind. It is not our duty to judge who is saved who cannot be saved. For the bible says " judge not, so that you may not be judge". Howver, the bible did tell us that there are 2 types of sins where God will NOT forgive...ie blashemy against the holy spirit and sexual immorality.
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GreenNnice
Guest
it's such a false teaching to THINK that someone can't turn from their sin more than once, they can't make mistakes and then come back to Christ. Hey, as long as someone is alive they can REPENT. Now, sinning willfully requires a lot of repenting so one has to decide IF they really want to do it and their works get burned up too. ,if they die in a 'prodigal' state of lukewarm behavior. Or, wait, God spits you OUT for being 'neither hot nor cold...hmm, and, so,yeah, that's a GRAY salvation area but, this is not...
...as if one leaves the Holy Spirit after having abided in Him , or, partake of His blessed leading of their life, , and, this is not rocket science, Christ peeps, it's Hebrews 6:4-6, that person can NOT come back to God, can NOT come to repentance. This is the denial of the Holy Spirit, it surely IS grieving the Holy Spirit, because , like me now tellingyou all my utter faith in His leading my life (silly abiding, eternallygrateful, booksends, you thinking I command my own faith. Ha, ha, ha, lol, NO! THE EXACT OPPOSITE ! He leads me, I can't put my life into words for you of His leading but trust Me, He lives in me!!
His Word is CLEAR, you are persecuting Him when you deny His teachings, worse yet, you become a false teacher. You deny His Word when you say things like, 'You have to look at other Scripture cuz Hebrews 6:4-6 is only one Truth verse of leaVing your salvation a distinct real happening for one genuinely having faith and into having received (partook is a grafting word, is it not?) the Holy Spirit and then left Him and followed worldly ways, assuming to they will bad mouth Him too
Yes, this is not an attitude of taking your 'fruit,' bookends. It is my being led to speak the Truth, I am.going to follow Him all of my days, not your words, not eg's x not mari's , right, He is our counselor, who we, learn all Truth.
, not , even rein's 
although her wisdom from Him is dynamically and giftedly outlayed for us all. cfultz too . So listening to eg say that those who are just not knowing they can't lose their salvation cuz ya can't be snatched from God, or, that if you left the faith you were never saved in the first place, or, any other doctrine that is antiChrist, to me, I just give it to God, He reigns, His Word to me, Holy Spirit outlayed, overrides ALL human response, however, God, indeed, DOES use others to teach me in His Truths, because Scripture is so complex IF He wants to keep its simplicity from me. The Lord leads, my job is simple, as I just said, don't worry about anyone else , what they think, 'just speak from Me, green, I am.in you, and, I am greater than those who persecute you through the principalities of evil out there in the world.'
And, I know, it's wild , that some guy can be marionetted in their life , accepting God's Spirited grace and mercy as He leads me as I step. Notice the 'active' act of that last part?
'...as He leads me as I step.' Read Proverbs 16:9. This should tell you quite quickly how the Lord, ultimately, leads my life. I can go my own way, but His way will, ultimately, be the way I go, for He has the plans, not me, IF I follow Him, call myself a believer of Him and seek Him, which is by following His Holy Spirit, and, living perfectly , as I fan strive, with Jesus' life on earth my blueprint for speaking constantly with the Holy Spirit as I do life.Now, be very careful in your spinning cfultz' words into unTruth, and, thinking we who follow the Holy Spirit as we do , with persecuting words, we are NOT phatasees, eg, that is not judging righteosly, don't do it, don't insinuate that because I partake of the sweet Holy Spirit leading my life that I am full of faith of myself, bookends, abider, mari. Don't do it.
Warning from God: Wrath will result from petsecurting those who believe in Christ different than you. Speak your piece of your can't be snatched and they were never His in the first place., with Scripture, like I told eg that those in 1 John 2:19 who were never saved in first place were ANTICHRISTS . A bit different person type than , say, for instance, umm, believers. Why can't you just speak your points without persecuting others? Better learn ,or, God days those who can't teach in GENTLENESS and with Love are NOT doing the work of the Lord,of Him.
yeah, I know, scary thought, huh ?
C
cfultz3
Guest
Then we are in agreement, their deliverance was a type of a spiritual deliverance. And the Lord is far from them because of their refusal of allowing the Spirit culavate them and by them producing thorns and briers, they apostate from that which they had, a relationship with God, seeing that they had the Spirit as their Guide, even though they abandoned Him through stubbornness.
Neither you nor I know when the Spirit will say when a peson becomes a wasteland, but it can occur. But as you said and I agree, as long as a peson is alive there is still hope. May I ask, since the pork is not well done, what are the rules I have implied?