Pregnancies from rape a "gift from God"?????

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Well, no. According to a senator in Kansas, if it's a legitimate rape, then the body will automatically shut down and refuse the impregnation to happen. Women who get pregnant from rape were asking for it. They wanted the sex because they didn't buy rape insurance like you plan for other bad things in life.....like a flat tire.... sadly, I'm not kidding about any of these things. There are actually people who believe that. Look- until you've been through a rape yourself, don't try to force women to do something you honest to God don't know what you'd do in that situation. If you've been raped and kept the child, congrats. I truly look up to you. You're one of the lucky ones who are not like me. You don't live in fear every day of your life that the man will find you again. That you hate yourself to your very core because you know no matter how much you pray, you'll never be forgiven because you can't ask for forgiveness for not being a virgin every second of your life. To be afraid of something as simple as shutting a window at night.

Now imagine having a child there to remind you each and every day of that moment. True, it was not the child's fault. But suppose a man murdered your entire family in front of your very eyes. Would you adopt his son because someone told you that you had to? Would you be ok with living with that child there 24/7?
 
I sort of agree with you here. However, I feel that it's the Christians who should be far more outspoken in finding ways to help women struggling with rape and pregnancy, as it is usually the Christians, from what I've seen, who are the most outspoken on abortion. I'm neither a Republican or Democrat, but I am a Christian, and as a Christian who opposes abortion, I'm willing to help us much as I possibly can to assist women chose not to abort, but rather keep their child or give it up for adoption. And while I can't help much financially, I can help by being a listening ear or help them find the resources they need. I can also go to God in prayer for them.

And quite honestly, every person who calls them self a Christian should be praying for all the single mothers out there on a regular basis, and the single fathers who keep their children when the mothers do not want them. And no, I'm not leaving out parents who are married, but it's harder for single parents, then for married parents. I grew up in a single parent family, simply because my father died when I was a child. I'm grateful that I had an Uncle and Aunt who chose to step up and help my mom through the rough times. But not every single parent has those resources. And too often the single parent gets left in the cracks, especially the moms.

So, if we are wanting to stop abortion, then we need to be willing to help meet the needs of these young women: financially, emotionally and physical needs (food, shelter-after all, some of them don't always have places to stay.)

Of course! I am Strictly *Against* Abortion! I do not believe an unborn baby is ever the guilty party who should have to lose its life as a consequence of his or her mother not deporting herself accordingly and/or morally by not doing proper family planning and who just went for the fun of it without thinking about the consequences!

And as I said previously, and it appears you do agree with me on this, the Republicans who are the wealthiest among the major parties and who are the ones more against abortions should be the very ones to truly Put Their Money Where Their Mouth Is By Opening Up More Adoption Agencies and Contributing Big $$$$$ Money To Help Care For Those Unwanted Children they so wish to protect! Democrats who are also financially able should do the same.

Another group who is against abortion is the Roman Catholic Church and its pope. Therefore, since the Vatican has umpteen Billions of dollars and the pope is strictly against abortion, I've heard it said that women might consider handing him their unwanted children, in lieu of having an abortion, so that he can raise them and take care of them in proper facilities with his immense wealth. So, there are two entities who are now financially able to truly Stop Abortions with their money -- The Republicans and The Pope. Just think, if these two entities were to truly step up to the plate and actually help mothers to save their children by promising to adopt them or care for them since they are so able to, that would greatly help the cause of unwanted children who could then have a good home, a good education, warm food on their table, and the love that these little innocents are so deserving of! But how many of you think either entity is actually going to spend any large amount of money for this great cause? Come on, I'd like to know How Many of you believe they would?
 
Well, no. According to a senator in Kansas, if it's a legitimate rape, then the body will automatically shut down and refuse the impregnation to happen. Women who get pregnant from rape were asking for it. They wanted the sex because they didn't buy rape insurance like you plan for other bad things in life.....like a flat tire.... sadly, I'm not kidding about any of these things. There are actually people who believe that. Look- until you've been through a rape yourself, don't try to force women to do something you honest to God don't know what you'd do in that situation. If you've been raped and kept the child, congrats. I truly look up to you. You're one of the lucky ones who are not like me. You don't live in fear every day of your life that the man will find you again. That you hate yourself to your very core because you know no matter how much you pray, you'll never be forgiven because you can't ask for forgiveness for not being a virgin every second of your life. To be afraid of something as simple as shutting a window at night.

Now imagine having a child there to remind you each and every day of that moment. True, it was not the child's fault. But suppose a man murdered your entire family in front of your very eyes. Would you adopt his son because someone told you that you had to? Would you be ok with living with that child there 24/7?
i agree on most of this except do not blame the inoccent un born child....
 
That you hate yourself to your very core because you know no matter how much you pray, you'll never be forgiven because you can't ask for forgiveness for not being a virgin every second of your life. To be afraid of something as simple as shutting a window at night.

Smithbr8, you shouldn't bother asking forgiveness for being raped because IT IS NOT A SIN TO BE RAPED. I told you before, the rapist is the one who needs to ask for forgiveness, as the Bible says, 'Carefully with tears.' You should never hate yourself for having been attacked by a lewd person.
 
"so its either carry to term this thing that you will bear hatred for, that will pain you every day and remind you, have this thing inside you for 9 months and cause yourself more pain in childbirth from his mistake"

I can't believe someone just wrote that. Wow. That's frightening.
 
P.S Why are we even debating this issue? A real Christian believes abortion is wrong in all cases. It's murder. God creates life and he decides who lives and who dies and if he has chosen to allow a pregnancy from a rape, it is not our decision to meddle with God's plan. This is really simple stuff. It's not difficult. It's like one of the basics of Christianity. It's in the commandments (Thou shall not murder). All I can say is those who murder innocent little babies in the womb, will be answering to a God who will deal justice and avenge that child's death in a frightening and fearful manner. Clearly some people on here have no fear or respect for God and his authority.
 
And no, abortion wont take away the memory, but it might stop a woman from killing herself. in many situuations, women KNOW they cannot handle having the child. so its either carry to term this thing that you will bear hatred for, that will pain you every day and remind you, have this thing inside you for 9 months and cause yourself more pain in childbirth from his mistake - almost always causing severe deppression, sometimes to the point of suicide ooooor have an abortion which is extremely emotionally, physically, and mentally painful for the woman anyway. in many cases, its abortion or suicidei

Hava91, In a situation like this, I would rather see our tax money spent on getting the woman Christian Counceling. The evil one(satan) wants a person to believe abortion is the quick fix and solution, when in fact it is the opposite.

In the situation of rape, It is one sick person who violates another innocent person. The victim is usually helpless and can not help themselves. Right? Abortion is really not much different. An innocent child , that can not help its self, is removed from the world by another who is much stronger and powerful.

... the evil(satan) one has taken hold of the(woman'thoughts) in her weakest moment and tried to tell her it is ok. evil says have this abortion and all your problems will go away. This is NOT true. This seed of a hard heart will lead to more destruction unless it is stopped. As a Christian we know God overcomes evil and stops it in its tracks.

The mother should be allowed (counceling) that is supportive.(payed for by goverment assistance) Teaching her the steps of how to overcome and deal with the violent attack she endured and show her Love does exist in the world. How can a mother show love to a child that she has never known herself? She needs reassurance she is NOT alone through out her pregnancy. She needs help in deciding to either keep the child or place the child with a loving family thourhg adoption. The mother needs to have Hope... the hope that only God can give.
Jer 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Do you think the mother will learn any of this in an abortion clinic?

This would be Gods will for the mother and the child. The ideas of suicide is another trickery of the evil one. And with proper counceling these thoughts would go away. The mother would learn how much she is loved by others and even more so she would learn how much her Heavenly Father Loves her and how much he loves this baby she brought into the world.

Please know I do not want any goverment every telling me what I have to do. That is a freedom we must try to hold on to, however we still need to stand up for what is good and right in Gods eyes, to prevent evil from having its way.

This is my opinion and I share it with you from my heart.
 
Another group who is against abortion is the Roman Catholic Church and its pope.

Actually, the RCC is VERY active in helping women with unwanted pregnancies. They have programs all over the country where, if you are pregnant and don't want to keep the baby, for whatever reason, you can stay in their facility, no questions asked, free of charge. They provide food, housing, and pre-natal medical services, as well as education and training as necessary, until the baby is born. Once the baby is born they take care of finding a family to adopt it, and the woman is free to go, no debt to pay back (save her own conscience, which many women do end up giving back to the church just out of thanks).

Also, the pope is not wealthy at all. He, in fact, has absolutely no personal wealth. He has some control over a lot of the church's assets, but none of it is in his name -- it is only in the church's name. All priests, the pope included, take a vow of poverty.

And even if you were to look at the assets of the church, those are not nearly what they once were. RCC membership is declining in developed countries, where people have money to donate, and increasing in countries where they use more of the church's resources than replenish them. Add to that a considerable scandal in the US over the last few decades that they are still paying out in the form of lawsuits and hush money, plus other cases in Europe over various issues, and they really don't have the resources to do significantly more than what they are already doing.

So yes, those who are against abortion but not willing to pay more to help the children who are already in the world are hypocrites. Just realize that a lot of those who claim to be "pro-life" really are pro-life. They do put their money where their mouths are.
 
I can't believe someone just wrote that. Wow. That's frightening.

No more frightening than Todd "legitimate rape" Akin or Richard "pregnancy from rape is a gift from God" Murdock.

In fact, significantly less frightening than the prospect of having men like Akin or Murdock running the country.
 
P.S Why are we even debating this issue? A real Christian believes abortion is wrong in all cases. It's murder. God creates life and he decides who lives and who dies and if he has chosen to allow a pregnancy from a rape, it is not our decision to meddle with God's plan. This is really simple stuff. It's not difficult. It's like one of the basics of Christianity. It's in the commandments (Thou shall not murder). All I can say is those who murder innocent little babies in the womb, will be answering to a God who will deal justice and avenge that child's death in a frightening and fearful manner. Clearly some people on here have no fear or respect for God and his authority.

Hi Jenesis.

I appreciate your fervor, but you should know that not all Christians agree with your views.

Yes, all Christians believe that God is in charge. However, there are quite a few Christians who do not believe that abortion is murder.

I think all Christians -- at least all of whom I am aware -- would agree that abortion is a sin, a poor choice, almost always the wrong choice. However, a fetus is not the same as a human, according to both Scripture and science, and this is agreed upon by some Christians and most non-Christians.

So, the "thou shalt not murder" bit, and "killing little babies" is really not what it is all about. For those who understand the fetus as a pre-born human, not a full human yet, it is a matter of legislating morality. Every time the government tries to legislate morality, it fails miserably. (Remember prohibition?) The purpose of the government is to protect the rights of its citizens, and in no country is citizenship granted before birth. (This has been tested in courts of law repeatedly, in cases of still-births and miscarriages, where parents try to get payments for their unborn children, the law is clearly on the side against them: if it didn't breathe, it was never a baby.) It's tragic and horrific and terrible and I would like to live in a world where the only abortions were to save the life of the mother. But until then, I remain pro-choice. Against abortion, and pro-choice.

Like others have said: if you want to stop abortion, you need to work on stopping the CAUSES of abortion. Make it so that no woman ever feels that she needs to make that choice. Support laws that demand equal pay for equal work, that don't discriminate on a woman if she chooses to have a child. Seek legislation that equalizes the playing field, so that kids born into "disadvantaged" families have extra help in school, so that by the time they reach adulthood, they are no longer disadvantaged. Why punish a child for the crimes of the parent? This is as true for the child after it's born as it is before it's born ... if not moreso.

And for heaven's sake, stick a sock into the mouth of every lawmaker who talks of "legitimate rape" like women are supposed to be thankful that a man might bless her with his seed at gunpoint. In the name of all that's holy.
 
No more frightening than Todd "legitimate rape" Akin or Richard "pregnancy from rape is a gift from God" Murdock.

In fact, significantly less frightening than the prospect of having men like Akin or Murdock running the country.
I Very Much Alot Strongly Agree With This Statement the republican party hates 47% of the people here they need too go live else where i do ot want any of us govern-end by them at all ever.they did not speak out romney 4 times refused to speak out agianist this when he had the chance that scares me and angers/upsets me the very much most.
 
Well it's quite simple really. When you end someone's life, it's murder. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. It's not my views people don't agree with but God's own views. Or is God a liar and the bible a lie?

Says it plainly in the bible. If you disagree with the bible then why are you a Christian? Doesn't make much sense to me.

This Christian Chat thing has become so overtly anti-Christian. Seems it's extremely difficult to find an actual bible believing and God loving person on here!
 
Well it's quite simple really. When you end someone's life, it's murder. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. It's not my views people don't agree with but God's own views. Or is God a liar and the bible a lie?

Says it plainly in the bible. If you disagree with the bible then why are you a Christian? Doesn't make much sense to me.

This Christian Chat thing has become so overtly anti-Christian. Seems it's extremely difficult to find an actual bible believing and God loving person on here!

So then why have the death penalty? Was God sending Christ to die for our sins considered murder?

Why tell a mother that if her life is in danger because of pregnancy, then she should die herself and rejoice that she has the chance to die? Isn't that murdering her by telling her she can't have an abortion?
 
So then why have the death penalty? Was God sending Christ to die for our sins considered murder?

Why tell a mother that if her life is in danger because of pregnancy, then she should die herself and rejoice that she has the chance to die? Isn't that murdering her by telling her she can't have an abortion?
you are comparing an unborn child to an adult who committed a crime bad enough to be put to death? yes the person who committed the crime should be forgiven but they still have to answer to the laws here too
 
you are comparing an unborn child to an adult who committed a crime bad enough to be put to death? yes the person who committed the crime should be forgiven but they still have to answer to the laws here too

Actually, she has a legitimate point when using the definition of Murder that Jenesis provides.

A scriptural definition would be more along the lines of(though not perfect):

Killing - destruction of life (human, animal, plant, etc)
Murder - unjustified killing
 
Well it's quite simple really. When you end someone's life, it's murder.
Many Christians do not believe that a fetus is a "person." Therefore, it is not ending someone's life, but destroying the potential life that might have been. As I said, tragic, horrific, sinful and sad, but not murder.

Or is God a liar and the bible a lie?
Nowhere in the Bible does it say "Abortion is murder."

The Bible says that murder is sin. If you believe that abortion is murder, then that is your opinion, not God's. If you believe abortion is NOT murder, then that, too, is your opinion, not God's. All we know is that murder is sin. Applying that principle to abortion is a human interpretation, not a godly one.

There are quite a few passages in the Old Testament that Christians have used to support their view that abortion is not murder. I will mention them briefly here: the fact that the loss of a fetus, a miscarriage, carries a smaller penalty than the loss of someone already born is one. Clearly, ending a fetus' life, while wrong, is not considered equivalent to ending the life of someone who was already born, according to Deuteronomy. (Now, some Christians will say the OT law no longer applies, but since that's where we get "thou shalt not murder," I'm not sure how throwing out the OT would support the claim that abortion is murder.) In another passage, the priests instruct what to do if a man suspects his wife has cheated on him. A priest gives her a "potion" to drink. If she is not pregnant (asserting her innocence from adultery), there is no harm to her. If she is pregnant (presumably the husband would not accuse her of this if there was any chance at all that the child were his), the potion destroys the fetus and makes her barren, unable ever to bear children again. The man then may divorce her, but she is never allowed to marry. Putting aside for the moment the troublesome misogyny, at the very least, this describes abortion, in bloody detail, and actually shows it as being commanded by God. In this case, it is not a "choice" but a punishment, meted out by the husband to the unfaithful wife. So this passage certainly doesn't support a "pro-choice" view. It does, however, put into question anyone who would say that "God hates abortion," if that person believes that God wrote the book of Numbers. (Not all Christians believe that, though for the record I do.)

This Christian Chat thing has become so overtly anti-Christian. Seems it's extremely difficult to find an actual bible believing and God loving person on here!
I have seen no "anti-Christian" talk here. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make that person "anti-Christian."

It is possible -- and in fact very common -- that two devout, Jesus-loving, Bible-believing, bathed-in-the-blood-of-the-lamb Christians might actually disagree about one or two points of doctrine. In many cases, both could be right, even though they may seem contradictory; there may be a kernel of truth in both persons' ideas. In other cases, both could be wrong. Either way, we are not saved by our doctrine, but by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. As long as we both agree on that, all is well.
 
what does losing a child before they are born have to do with deliberately killing the child? a Child who dies through no fault of anyone here is just not meant to be, this is a big difference between i decided I want to kill this child. and it's a child , people try to justify murder by calling the child it or just a fetus, it's a child,
 
So then why have the death penalty?
This is an excellent question! I, personally, am also against the death penalty.

Was God sending Christ to die for our sins considered murder?
Another excellent question! In fact, many atheists and/or other non-Christians consider this one of the "failing points" of Christianity. They look at the story of Abraham, ready to murder his son Isaac just because God said so, and say, "That's not faith, that's infanticide. That's not a good father, that's horrific! Any God who would do that, even as a test, is a sick and twisted being." Then, to see that God not only DID that, but did it to himself, with his own dearly beloved son... They just can't take that. I have to say, it's a hard argument to counter.

Why tell a mother that if her life is in danger because of pregnancy, then she should die herself and rejoice that she has the chance to die? Isn't that murdering her by telling her she can't have an abortion?
I have seen very few people who would not allow for abortion in a case where the mother's life was at risk. If the republicans tried to pass such a stiff regulation, making abortion illegal even to save the mother's life, they will have doctors violating that law left and right, because when a woman comes in agony with an ectopic pregnancy (like I had about 4 years ago), with 0 chance of survival for the embryo, and 0 chance of survival for the woman if it is not removed, that doctor is going to remove it, no matter what some politician says.

Furthermore, I suspect that, if abortion is made illegal again, there will be a lot of doctors out there who will "fake" records to indicate that the embryo is a threat to the mother's life, if the woman requested it, and wanted the abortion for some similar reason. For example, some women are on a medication that they cannot take while pregnant. Being off the medication is a risk. Some women are willing to take that risk, and will go off the meds while pregnant. Many of these women do survive through the pregnancy and give birth to healthy babies. Sometimes it doesn't work that way. Sometimes the woman stays on her medication and the fetus is destroyed by that medication. Sometimes the woman stays off the meds and dies because of it. Sometimes the woman manages to carry the fetus to term, but dies during childbirth. Many women are not willing to take these risks. Many doctors will probably be willing to fudge the records a little, say the risks are higher than they actually are, if a woman is in a position like that. Like, if she has a "50% chance" of making it through, the doctor would say "the fetus is a threat to the mother's life" just to allow a legal abortion. Whatever number the law comes up with as "risk" allowing for abortion, doctors will be willing to lie to make it match that number. For many doctors, a 1% risk to the life of the mother is not worth it. And if that's what the mother decides, that is her choice.

In a perfect world, there would be medical treatments for all medical conditions, so that no woman would have to make that choice. We don't live in a perfect world. In the world in which we live, each woman must weigh the risks of having a child to the horrors of aborting it, in consultation with her doctor. I would hope she also consults with the potential father of the child (whether or not they are married) and with God, praying for strength and help. I cannot force a woman to do that, however. Ultimately, that choice is up to her and her doctor. We can pray for her, we cannot force her to pray (legally or practically).

That's how it is now. That's how it must remain. I don't want some pea-brain in Washington deciding what is best for a woman he's never met. If a woman and her doctor feel abortion is the best route, I think the rest of us need to cool off and let God deal with that as only God can.
 
Actually, she has a legitimate point when using the definition of Murder that Jenesis provides.

A scriptural definition would be more along the lines of(though not perfect):

Killing - destruction of life (human, animal, plant, etc)
Murder - unjustified killing

Let the records show that jimmydiggs and I actually agree. I think that's the second time that's happened!

Surely, Jesus' return must be immanent! :)
 
what does losing a child before they are born have to do with deliberately killing the child? a Child who dies through no fault of anyone here is just not meant to be, this is a big difference between i decided I want to kill this child. and it's a child , people try to justify murder by calling the child it or just a fetus, it's a child,

Is an egg a chicken?