The False Doctrine of OSAS

[eternally-gratefull]

Think its happening often..since he was burned by 'legalism' I think any mention of working out your own salvation or seeking to put down the old man and puting on Jesus equates to works..oh and Paul did prwach faith with works equates to sincere genuine faith...

1. Paul did not preach faith plus works. Paul taught true faith produces works., a huge difference.

2. Paul taught we are saved, justified, and declared innocent by faith apart from works of any kind.

works of the law in Galatians.
works of anything from which we can boast in Eph
works before the law in Romans
and any work of righteousness we may do in Titus.

3. Yes I was burned by legalism. I saw many taken out by satan because they could not live up, and instead of getting help, got condemned by the church who was supposed to help them, and people like you who state God does not love them, because they are sinning, not God loves them in spite of their sin, and wants to help them, so lets work on this together.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture is clear, the justification process is MORE than just believing in John 3:16, you can take on this false faith IF you want but I highly suggest reading the many verses that let us know that there is MORE to the story....The Holy Spirit is who Jesus is who is IN our hearts.

wow so Jesus did not give nicodemus the complete story and left us hanging. Poor man.

Thank God we have people like paul that confirms what Jesus said to nicodemus and do not have to worry about false teachers trying to add works to the gospel of faith.

In Fact Jesus did. He told the sameritan woman. All we had to do was ask in faiht and he would give us livers of living water which continue to flow to eternal life.

He told the crowd in John 6, all we have to do is have faith in him, and we will never hunger, or thirst. never die. Live forever, Have eternal life. and be assured that we WILL be raised by him, and not delivered to him.

so he told all these people what they had to do and in doing so would never die, but have eternal life. and we should listen to you by saying he did not tell them all the "whole" story..

 

[RickShafer]

I tire of arguing.
This abode we live in....is it not for spreading the good news instead of arguing back and forth.
What have we gained by jousting.
Is not the truth, the truth.
One side says they comprehend, and the other points out how they don't.
Then the other side writes the truth (as they see it), and the side they have just torn down comes back
with innumerable scriptures to refute them.
This whole blogosphere is resembling a first world war patch of ground.
Nothing but dead bodies, no truth, no grace, no ministry.
Fella's...... we need to get out among the masses and spread the good news,(as we understand it) -
and stop being slaves to our keyboards; and just arguing amongst ourselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, so i am still wondering..trying to understand since you are making a whole ton of accusations that do not stand with what i said..
1)i never said you are saved by your works, i simply believe that if you are truly saved, you will have fruit/works..James 2:18,matthew 7:16

So your saying what I am saying. and you believe eternal life is eternal and can not be lost. So why are you arguing against me then?

2)how is that legalism? I think perhaps you have been so 'burned' by what you consider and experienced was legalism that anything you feel may seemingly look remotely close to legalism is legalism, in other words, if it does not say 'grace and only grace' then it is legalism. Yet we can see many places in the bible to walk in this new life, and that our old ways are to be forsaken,to put on Jesus and leave no room for the flesh to fullfill the lusts thereof, romans 13:14

But you just stated those who are truely saved by faith will do this very thing. So how could they possibly not do what you just agreed they WOULD DO?

And grace is unearned favor. anything which takes it to anything other than unearned is work. Those are Gods words not mine,

if it is grace it is no longer works, if it is works, it is no longer grace,

I think you remember the passage, it is one or the other, it can never be both.

3) How is faith that actuall works fear driven? I am still seeking to understand how this is fear driven when i said already(you are not listening or have selective hearing/reading) that out of the overflow of the Love and what Christ has done we should wish to seek to serve him.

If you teaching one can lose salvation in any way, your teaching a fear based doctrine, twist it how you will, your still teaching fear.

At the end of the day, you either walk with Christ or not..if that is fear mongering, then go label me a fear monger..i would rather be labeled that if it means i told someone the truth..

At end of day? Are we perfect on any particular day? If you think so you do not know God. so how many of us have walked any day in our lives where we could say for that day we earned the right to be saved? Of course even if we could do this. what would a statement like that be? would it not be pride which says this? and would it not open the door for satan to come in and take you down a few steps? (believe me I have seen it happen, so don't deny it can never happen)

Why not wake up in the morning, and say thank You god for another day, for I know where I deserve to be. and at night, say thank You god for whatever you did for me today, because I know I did not deserve any good thing which happened to me today. And oh by the way, Thank you god for loving me even though I sinned against you today by doing whatever you did. And God help me to be awake when the temptation comes to do that again, so I can have a better chance of following you and not my flesh tomorrow.

As for you being a fear monger. You claim I can lose salvation. thus you teach fear.

Many grace only preachers i have heard did not tell me the truth that God is holy and that I cannot live as i did

That should have been your first clue, they did not teach you the bible, just there flawed version of it. You can't teach the bible and not know what God wants you to do. He tells us all over the NT how we can achieve faith rest, and the life he wants to give us, and win voctory for him, and any teacher should tell you the same.

However, (and this is a huge however) no one better ever tell you you HAVE to do anything, or you will lose salvation. Because God did not, he said he has a better life for us, If you want it, do this. He did not come as judge, the day of judgment will come in the end.

once if i am a born again new creation in Christ..if any man be in Christ..he is a new creature! New, not old..what part of that do christians or those who claim to be not understand!? this means all things are new 2 corinthians 5:17.

All things are new. You can't live as you did before (not because you will be judged if you do, BUT YOU CAN"T DO IT) You will not continue in sin, you will work.

So again, your teaching eternal justification.

why do yo ukeep going back and forth?

 

[GreenNnice]

wow so Jesus did not give nicodemus the complete story and left us hanging. Poor man.

Thank God we have people like paul that confirms what Jesus said to nicodemus and do not have to worry about false teachers trying to add works to the gospel of faith.

In Fact Jesus did. He told the sameritan woman. All we had to do was ask in faiht and he would give us livers of living water which continue to flow to eternal life.

He told the crowd in John 6, all we have to do is have faith in him, and we will never hunger, or thirst. never die. Live forever, Have eternal life. and be assured that we WILL be raised by him, and not delivered to him.

so he told all these people what they had to do and in doing so would never die, but have eternal life. and we should listen to you by saying he did not tell them all the "whole" story..

How convenient of a justification process you've stated, eg.

But, no thanks, thank God that His way of getting to Heaven is not based on something so simple as mere belief in the cross but , as Paul mentioned, 'I've run the race.'

Sure, grace all over yourself and spill that on people all day long like you have been doing for who knows how long--falsely--on c.c., as for me I will ENDure, through hope and prayer in His leading (my following), for my crown of life, and, it is all in Christ, the cross, the resurrection, and, the Spirit leading me altogether, and, a fear of the Lord, too, that I will follow.

I will take the Truth over you , don't you think that's a much wiser thing to do

Maybe best to get on your horse, sts, and, read Romans front to back then 1 Cor. so you can begin to get a a hearty taste of the meat that you ARE missing with your simple milk gospel that is NOT what Paul was sent by God to do.

Believing in the name of Jesus AND believing in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) equals 'justification' as you falsely throw it around differently than that, read 1 Cor. 6, if you have any doubts to the Truth just said, SURPRISE, right before your very eyes .

 

[RickShafer]

Keep rippin' into each other fella's.
I'm sure God through Jesus Christ is keeping score.
Nevermind the Holy Spirit because He was grieved a long time ago.

 

[GreenNnice]

Is it ripping into another, Ricky, when their gospel explains a false understanding of one's getting to Heaven.

Justification is a lot MORE than just the cross and, YES, it is true that one is SAVED by the finished work on the cross but the gospel does NOT stop there, it only has just begun .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How convenient of a justification process you've stated, eg.

Convenient? says who? I think we see from all the people here who are afraid to lay it at the feet of Christ and not think they have to do something themselves (human thinking) proves it is not so convenient. It is called lack of faith in the work of Christ, It is easier to trust self when you see things,m then to have faith in things unseen isn't it?

Faith is the substance of things unseen. Not in things seen.

But, no thanks, thank God that His way of getting to Heaven is not based on something so simple as mere belief in the cross but , as Paul mentioned, 'I've run the race.'

first off. mere belief will not save you. James stated so as did paul. And I wish you all would guite saying this is what I am teaching when you know by what I write it is not.

second. I just showed you how hard it is to have faith in things you can not see. So I would be leary if I was you saying it is so easy, It goes against every human fiber of the flesh to stand still and let someone else do the work for you when it comes to saving your life.

Sure, grace all over yourself and spill that on people all day long like you have been doing for who knows how long--falsely--on c.c., as for me I will ENDure, through hope and prayer in His leading (my following), for my crown of life, and, it is all in Christ, the cross, the resurrection, and, the Spirit leading me altogether, and, a fear of the Lord, too, that I will follow.

1. You will not get any crown if your not saved.
2. Salvation is the netrance to heaven, minus any rewards
3. Rewards are earned. Many, Like paul, Will recieve many rewards, thats what he ran the race for. Sadly many will see their rewards burnt as wood hay and stubble. but they will still be saved.

stop working for reward. and trust Christ to save you first. then work for reward. or I fear you will get nothing, not even heaven.

I will take the Truth over you , don't you think that's a much wiser thing to do

Yes it is. So listen to god and not me, And place your total faith in him, otherwise you will be told depart. and not told well done.

Maybe best to get on your horse, sts, and, read Romans front to back then 1 Cor. so you can begin to get a a hearty taste of the meat that you ARE missing with your simple milk gospel that is NOT what Paul was sent by God to do.

Believing in the name of Jesus AND believing in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) equals 'justification' as you falsely throw it around differently than that, read 1 Cor. 6, if you have any doubts to the Truth just said, SURPRISE, right before your very eyes .

lol. Your truth stinks of phariseeism. and you can;t even see it. You think you are different than them when you are not.

Your faith is in self. Not God. you can work all you want/ Just like they did, but sadly I fear you may suffer their fate, which is up to you. My job is to make sure no one else listens to the false legalistic doctrine. I doubt I will convince you, only God can.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Keep rippin' into each other fella's.
I'm sure God through Jesus Christ is keeping score.
Nevermind the Holy Spirit because He was grieved a long time ago.

Should I call him a "brood of vipers? Or the many other names John and Jesus and Paul called them who try to add works to faith in order to earn their justification?

 

[marianna]

"What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? - Matthew 18:12

God will NOT force His sheep back, they know His voice, why would He?

They KNOW His voice and IF His sheep choose to stray, yes, He will go look for them and find them but will they come back to the flock is a question He knows but that is because Christ knows all, He still will jot force His hand on them to bring them back. The Helper will counsel, advocate lead, but our following Him back, like the prodigal son, is up to we sheep

If they are sheep, they will be brought back.
If they are goats, they are not His.

Why do you not trust (believe) what He says?
How is it you think the Father's Will can be thwarted?

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out - John 6:37

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. - John 6:39

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." - John 6:65

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. - John 10:28

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is it ripping into another, Ricky, when their gospel explains a false understanding of one's getting to Heaven.

Justification is a lot MORE than just the cross and, YES, it is true that one is SAVED by the finished work on the cross but the gospel does NOT stop there, it only has just begun .

Actually it is not called ripping into each other. it is called exposing a false gospel of works. Putting self above God and expecting God to reward you for it, and telling the world how righteous you are. when God tells us our works are as filthy rags which would make God puke.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If they are sheep, they will be brought back.
If they are goats, they are not His.

Why do you not trust (believe) what He says?
How is it you think the Father's Will can be thwarted?

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out - John 6:37

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. - John 6:39

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." - John 6:65

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. - John 10:28

put yourself in their shoes ad the pharisees shoes. Imagine working your whole life to live righteous, to do all these religious cermony and tradition. To sacrifice so much for God, and then be told all of that work amounts to filthy rags, that without the death of Christ and the cross, you are lost with no hope. It angers them, it is why They crucified christ, and why people will not see or hear even today. It is called pride. How dare you tell me all i have done will not have a thing to do with my eternal justification!

 

[GreenNnice]

You guys must be kidding, sigh.....

Where do I even once speak of works for salvation?


I don't. I speak of Truth. For justification, we need both to believe in Jesus and also we need the Holy Spirit in our body.

Like I said, read 1 Cor. 6 and get back to me, and, this has nothing to do with works, but, for many, it has to do with the Lord leading them to a greater understanding of things not seen, which can only be seen through faith

 

[Crossfire]

Personally, I believe that this notion of those who backslide were never God's to begin with is a nothing more than a denominational cop out, a way for these churches to ease their conscience because, in reality, they failed to disciple these people properly.

The parable of the sower talks about such people, that such seed (faith) does indeed spring up (grow) but they are quickly overwhelmed by weeds. I believe that those weeds mentioned in the passage are people in the church who are very religious but do not have a real relationship with God. Once new believers become intermingled with such people and are indoctrinated into their religious but spiritually dead doctrine, what little faith they did posses is smothered by false doctrine and dies.

I believe that if the Church was really doing it's job, there would not be so many backsliders. Think about that the next time someone abandons the faith after you have attempted to disciple them. Chances are your doctrine is seriously flawed.

 

[Abiding]

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.L17:10

For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?1cor4:7

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You guys must be kidding, sigh.....

Where do I even once speak of works for salvation?


I don't. I speak of Truth. For justification, we need both to believe in Jesus and also we need the Holy Spirit in our body.

Like I said, read 1 Cor. 6 and get back to me, and, this has nothing to do with works, but, for many, it has to do with the Lord leading them to a greater understanding of things not seen, which can only be seen through faith

Unlike you. most of us know the difference between grace and works. A work means you working for a reward, or a wage, Which is what you are doing, your working to not lose salvation or to be justified. Thus justification is the wage you are working for. You can deny it all you want. but the fact remains.

1 cor 6?

8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Notice what Paul said? of all the people he wrote to. What saved them? What separated them from the world? that they did noo sin like the world? NO! They were WASHED, SANCTIFIED and JUSTIFIED. And how did they get this way? By stopping sin? No! BY CHRIST!

1 cor 6 rejects your belief, it does not support it my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Personally, I believe that this notion of those who backslide were never God's to begin with is a nothing more than a denominational cop out, a way for these churches to ease their conscience because, in reality, they failed to disciple these people properly.

personally I believe anyone who declares any one is saved or not saved is in error. for know one knows the heart but God.

as for those who backslide not being saved or not. God says they are. we should trust what god says not man. Another possibility is they were never saved. either way we can not know what situation a person may be in, so do not have the right to judge them.

The parable of the sower talks about such people, that such seed (faith) does indeed spring up (grow) but they are quickly overwhelmed by weeds. I believe that those weeds mentioned in the passage are people in the church who are very religious but do not have a real relationship with God. Once new believers become intermingled with such people and are indoctrinated into their religious but spiritually dead doctrine, what little faith they did posses is smothered by false doctrine and dies.

that would be no faith at all. but mere belief, which is why they fell. they were never saved.

I believe that if the Church was really doing it's job, there would not be so many backsliders. Think about that the next time someone abandons the faith after you have attempted to disciple them. Chances are your doctrine is seriously flawed.

or maybe they wanted nothing to do with it in the first place. they did not have faith at all..

again, one should never judge.

 

[GreenNnice]

Personally, I believe that this notion of those who backslide were never God's to begin with is a nothing more than a denominational cop out, a way for these churches to ease their conscience because, in reality, they failed to disciple these people properly.

The parable of the sower talks about such people, that such seed (faith) does indeed spring up (grow) but they are quickly overwhelmed by weeds. I believe that those weeds mentioned in the passage are people in the church who are very religious but do not have a real relationship with God. Once new believers become intermingled with such people and are indoctrinated into their religious but spiritually dead doctrine, what little faith they did posses is smothered by false doctrine and dies.

I believe that if the Church was really doing it's job, there would not be so many backsliders. Think about that the next time someone abandons the faith after you have attempted to disciple them. Chances are your doctrine is seriously flawed.

Truth about someone who was a born again of God true believer and abandoned the faith due to false doctrine of teachers, false spirits steering them to a feel+good salvation that, ultimately, let them feel good ifvthey just went back to their old ways.

The church is however never liked being discredited, crossfyre, I know, I know, Christbro, it's not perfect, far from, but, let's edify that 'body' that is there for great reason and the church is the 'bridegroom' of Christ, the groom.

 

[GreenNnice]

Sigh, YES, this is the Truth,eg, mari, Ricky:

And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Therein lies what, Or, Who rather we are justified by.

Again, does the Lord like you calling accepting His Holy Spirit a 'work?'

It is simply part of the justification process.

-------()------
YES, eg, God knows the heart .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You don't send a baby out into the world to fend for themselves. they will never make it. You tell a baby not to put their hand in the fire, or they will get hurt. If they do it anyway, they suffer the consequence of getting hurt.

Same is with Christianity, You don;t send a baby out into the world, or they will not survive;. You tell them how they should act and what they should not do, or they will get hurt,, if they chose to do it anyway, they get hurt (unlike the non believer, who does not realize the pain and suffering they cause0 this causes the baby Christian to grow, and see what they are doing hurts them and others. This is what Paul was doing to the corinthian church, who were still babes and still needed fed milk instead of meat.

The sad part is. You do not tell a baby if they do not do what you say you will kick them out of your family and will have nothing to do with you. You love and cherish that bay even when they do wrong, and this helps them love you more as they see what a loving father you are. And also helps them to grow and sin less. and they realize more and more how much it hurts them.

So why do people keep saying otherwise? That God will not be th eloving father, but kick us out of his family. why do people preach fear instead of love. God is a god of love, his judgment will come one day, but that is then, this is now. We are to love as Christ did. Not as satan wants us to portray God/.