The False Doctrine of OSAS

[eternally-gratefull]

Wake up, eg.

wake up?? This is what you said.

I'm quite clear saying 'I am running a race,' for getting 'a crown of life from Christ Jesus.' So as did Paul. So as do will you

your running trying to earn salvation at the end. is this not what you said? How could I or anyone else misinterpret this saying?

I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us.

lol, if Paul in this stage of his life did not make it yet. non of us will. and paul was not talking about salvation here, he was talking about what we all should do every day of our lives, press on to be more christlike/ and never think we made it.

now do i still need to wake up? or are you going to admit your working for a reward, (justification) and not trying to receive the gift of eternal life?

 

[GreenNnice]

Brother,

this is their defence towards obedeince to God. It is argued that if one must follow Christ then that is work. If it is work then they will say, ' I wont follow His Spirit' (yet this part theysomehow agree to because it says Christ and will therefore look only at the grace part of salvation, while nullifying we are to be led by His Spirit. God indeeds lulls the spirit part of us and by such are we spoken to by His Spirit ).

But because we speak on the full adminstration of God's new Covenant, and say that we are to follow the Spiriit, and we know that the Spirit is God and is sent from/of God and Jesus, but yet they do not understand us saying this, although we all know that there is but one God. So maybe, we should say follow Jesus' Spirit, even God's Spirit, seeing that we are spiritual. They see 'the' when we say 'the Spirit' and by this, we are leaving out the true meaning of God. God is our Father, and is the Word (Jesus, in the flesh), and is the Spirit (the part of Him who speaks to our spirit, seeing that we (our souls) are to die to the flesh and become spiritual).

If I have caused one to be blashemious because I have used 'the Spirit' and made it seem that I am giving 'the Spirit' more of a place then Jesus and/or God. I am sorry. I just thought we all knew that we have but one God.

Everyone on c.c. knows I say 'The Lord leads' most often, and, this not just said, lol, the Lord is leading me. It's kind of how Paul explains sin.in Romans 7, said in that way of I know what I do but not what I do, Or, I go where I do not want to go. Jesus was led by God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

This is not saying He is leading me badly, no, for God knows perfect for me. Remember Isaiah 55:7-9, and, especially, verses 8,9

7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts

Does everyone undrstand this Truth?

So, YES, I am saying all three whenever I say , 'The Lord leads.' Though God gave us a mediator between Himself and MSN and that is Who we believed up on in John 3:16, for when Jesus born of Holy Spirit seed left earth He came back from death in human form but when He left 2nd time was IMMEDIATELY when the Holy Spirit was spoken of, a very few verses after His ascension to sit at the right hand of His Father, in Heaven.

 

[GreenNnice]

wake up?? This is what you said.



your running trying to earn salvation at the end. is this not what you said? How could I or anyone else misinterpret this saying?



lol, if Paul in this stage of his life did not make it yet. non of us will. and paul was not talking about salvation here, he was talking about what we all should do every day of our lives, press on to be more christlike/ and never think we made it.

now do i still need to wake up? or are you going to admit your working for a reward, (justification) and not trying to receive the gift of eternal life?

Wake up .


7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts

 

[Abiding]

Why did Moses not get to go into the promised land?

Why were men killed for trying to save the ark of the covenant?

Now i will go work in the rain....good day to you all

 

[marianna]

Personally, I believe that this notion of those who backslide were never God's to begin with is a nothing more than a denominational cop out, a way for these churches to ease their conscience because, in reality, they failed to disciple these people properly.

But, though you had backslidden, did He not bring you back?
Why did He? Is He wiser than we give Him credit for?

Are there other backsliders out there He is humbling, Hiding His face from until they suffer so much they cry out?
I know there are.

The churches are not infallible, neither is any pastor or teacher.

I agree that there are too many churches today which do not allow God's Word to work in the hearts of the assembled. Not enough teaching and preaching straight from the Bible, too much self-help and social gospels and the like. But some people prefer this, as they do not want to hear either the Law or the Gospel.

I have read that though these large Mega-Churches have huge numbers, many are leaving out the back door and this is not advertised. I suppose His sheep keeping looking until they are so famished they have to leave the place they are not fed.

The Bible has all the instructions in it for right living and discipling, everything we need as individuals and as a body. But if its not taught, the people starve. Some do give up, for a time. But if they are His, He will make arrangements. I have seen it many times. If they are not yet His, but they are seeking, He will intervene there as well. I have seen a most extraordinary example in person recently. Someone the whole community had written off as a vile drunken sinner....appeared one day completely changed: no one recognized him

What does denominationalism have to do with it though?

Everyone if they go to church has assembled with some sort of denomination. Even churches which identify as non-denominational are denominations!

I believe that if the Church was really doing it's job, there would not be so many backsliders. Think about that the next time someone abandons the faith after you have attempted to disciple them. Chances are your doctrine is seriously flawed.

But, why is it about YOU discipling anyone?
The church's job is to continue to assemble and hear the words of the LORD, to build each other up in love, to worship and give thanks together, to confess our faults to one another, to be at peace amongst ourselves and allow eachother to grow in grace.

And to work together to take the Good News to the world. That means supporting my church's missions, locally in person or monetarily abroad. And it means not being ashamed of the Gospel in my own little world where I am surrounded by people who don't know the LORD yet, and are hostile towards Him.

God Bless
marianna

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wake up .


7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts

and this proves what? that your not working for it?

You just said you were working for it. Then denied it and said I need to wake up, even though what i said about you was correct.

Go look in a mirror my friend, Your hurting yourself by denying the truth about yourself, and telling those who expose what your saying to wake up. then when you are confronted with what you said, instead of denying, you went of on another rabbit trail.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why did Moses not get to go into the promised land?

Why were men killed for trying to save the ark of the covenant?

Now i will go work in the rain....good day to you all

Don;t work to hard. And I feel ya, I am working in cold rain myself. Thank God for my truck and computer to take a break..lol

 

[GreenNnice]

But, though you had backslidden, did He not bring you back?
Why did He? Is He wiser than we give Him credit for?

Are there other backsliders out there He is humbling, Hiding His face from until they suffer so much they cry out?
I know there are.

The churches are not infallible, neither is any pastor or teacher.

I agree that there are too many churches today which do not allow God's Word to work in the hearts of the assembled. Not enough teaching and preaching straight from the Bible, too much self-help and social gospels and the like. But some people prefer this, as they do not want to hear either the Law or the Gospel.

I have read that though these large Mega-Churches have huge numbers, many are leaving out the back door and this is not advertised. I suppose His sheep keeping looking until they are so famished they have to leave the place they are not fed.

The Bible has all the instructions in it for right living and discipling, everything we need as individuals and as a body. But if its not taught, the people starve. Some do give up, for a time. But if they are His, He will make arrangements. I have seen it many times. If they are not yet His, but they are seeking, He will intervene there as well. I have seen a most extraordinary example in person recently. Someone the whole community had written off as a vile drunken sinner....appeared one day completely changed: no one recognized him

What does denominationalism have to do with it though?

Everyone if they go to church has assembled with some sort of denomination. Even churches which identify as non-denominational are denominations!



But, why is it about YOU discipling anyone?
The church's job is to continue to assemble and hear the words of the LORD, to build each other up in love, to worship and give thanks together, to confess our faults to one another, to be at peace amongst ourselves and allow eachother to grow in grace.

And to work together to take the Good News to the world. That means supporting my church's missions, locally in person or monetarily abroad. And it means not being ashamed of the Gospel in my own little world where I am surrounded by people who don't know the LORD yet, and are hostile towards Him.

God Bless
marianna

Mari, go start your OWN church thread somewhere else, quit detailing this one. Said in Love

 

[Crossfire]

lol. I am still trying to figure out what you believe, are you now denying you think one can lose salvation?

It appears that you are missing my point. Rather than address what I had written, you ignored what I had to say and was attempting to address what you think I believe. In doing so, you were interjecting things into the conversation that were never stated thus, in some ways, putting words in my mouth. I have witnessed very few conversations that did not turn into pointless arguments once people began doing this.

In all fairness, you were not the only one doing this, there were some you were debating with who were doing the same to you.

Anyways, no I do not believe that one can "lose" their salvation. God does not give up on people. However, just like a husband who decides to leave his wife and family for a woman half his age, I do believe that one can abandon their salvation. Now that doesn't mean God gives up on them, He will continue to draw them back however, I do believe one can forfeit there salvation. We would not have free will if such an option was not on the table.

However, the real tragedy is when someone believes that they are forsaken because of things that they might have done. God is more than willing to forgive when we are willing to repent despite what our situation may look like.

 

[GreenNnice]

eg: your running trying to earn salvation at the end. is this not what you said? How could I or anyone else misinterpret this saying.
-----
Eg, don't know how you keep midinterpteting what I say of my runningva race having nothing to do with works and everything to do with His leading.

What don't you understand of this Truth. Those of being called sons of God MUST be led by the Spirit of God

Wake up.

 

[GreenNnice]

It appears that you are missing my point. Rather than address what I had written, you ignored what I had to say and was attempting to address what you think I believe. In doing so, you were interjecting things into the conversation that were never stated thus, in some ways, putting words in my mouth. I have witnessed very few conversations that did not turn into pointless arguments once people began doing this.

In all fairness, you were not the only one doing this, there were some you were debating with who were doing the same to you.

Anyways, no I do not believe that one can "lose" their salvation. God does not give up on people. However, just like a husband who decides to leave his wife and family for a woman half his age, I do believe that one can abandon their salvation. Now that doesn't mean God gives up on them, He will continue to draw them back however, I do believe one can forfeit there salvation. We would not have free will if such an option was not on the table.

However, the real tragedy is when someone believes that they are forsaken because of things that they might have done. God is more than willing to forgive when we are willing to repent despite what our situation may look like.

Crossfyre, I like what you say, but govstart your OWN thread on this topic, please, . Maybe?

The Lord leads

Edit: oh, OK, forgive me, Christbro, I see words 'lose their salvation,' it's all good.

It's all good.

Mari, i'll apologize to you, too, I guess you both on OSAS in a non-mentioning OSAS way

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eg: your running trying to earn salvation at the end. is this not what you said? How could I or anyone else misinterpret this saying.

Don't know how you keep midinterpteting what I say of my runningva race having nothing to do with works and everything to do with His leading.

What don't you understand of this Truth. Those of being called sons of God MUST be led by the Spirit of God

Wake up.

you can twist it however you want. Your running to get a reward, or to get paid for what your working for. which is justification.

are you denying this now? go ahead and say you deny your running to get justification. then tell us how you deny this. and when we are justified.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eg: your running trying to earn salvation at the end. is this not what you said? How could I or anyone else misinterpret this saying.

Don't know how you keep midinterpteting what I say of my runningva race having nothing to do with works and everything to do with His leading.

What don't you understand of this Truth. Those of being called sons of God MUST be led by the Spirit of God

Wake up.

oh and by the way. Those who are saved, justified by the blood of the lamb ARE led by the spirit. He leads them by showing them the way, or chastening them to get back on track. but they are led every minute of ever day for the rest of their life.

why you deny this boggles my mind.

 

[homwardbound]

Brother,

this is their defence towards obedeince to God. It is argued that if one must follow Christ then that is work. If it is work then they will say, ' I wont follow His Spirit' (yet this part theysomehow agree to because it says Christ and will therefore look only at the grace part of salvation, while nullifying we are to be led by His Spirit. God indeeds lulls the spirit part of us and by such are we spoken to by His Spirit ).

This is the part that most do not understand, we are to reckon oneself dead to sin, Romans 6:11 thus we are alive to Christ made citizens of Heaven not earth. then put back here in the Holy Ghost as ambassadors representing the righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Ghost representing our new citizenship our home in heaven. There is no work of self here at all. There is work but it is not ours, there is righteousness, again it is not ours, there is peace and again it is not ours. it is all God's. We are just participators in this, and get credit for this from God not man.
So man quit from thy works and participate in the armour of God where you are save from thiefs for by participation in the finished work of Christ all your treasures are stored in Heaven, safe from all evil. Refrain from being fearful of this earth that can only kill the body, rather be fearful of the one that can kill both body and Soul, go to God in Private and ask for God who knows all secrets shall openly reward you. do not do your good deeds publicly, have God do them for you as God sees fit. Just have the motive to want to know God himself and you will see the trinity
homwardbound I am

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Brother,

this is their defence towards obedeince to God. It is argued that if one must follow Christ then that is work. If it is work then they will say, ' I wont follow His Spirit' (yet this part theysomehow agree to because it says Christ and will therefore look only at the grace part of salvation, while nullifying we are to be led by His Spirit. God indeeds lulls the spirit part of us and by such are we spoken to by His Spirit ).

This is the part that most do not understand, we are to reckon oneself dead to sin, Romans 6:11 thus we are alive to Christ made citizens of Heaven not earth. then put back here in the Holy Ghost as ambassadors representing the righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Ghost representing our new citizenship our home in heaven. There is no work of self here at all. There is work but it is not ours, there is righteousness, again it is not ours, there is peace and again it is not ours. it is all God's. We are just participators in this, and get credit for this from God not man.
So man quit from thy works and participate in the armour of God where you are save from thiefs for by participation in the finished work of Christ all your treasures are stored in Heaven, safe from all evil. Refrain from being fearful of this earth that can only kill the body, rather be fearful of the one that can kill both body and Soul, go to God in Private and ask for God who knows all secrets shall openly reward you. do not do your good deeds publicly, have God do them for you as God sees fit. Just have the motive to want to know God himself and you will see the trinity
homwardbound I am

and I might add. He said we reject the leading of the spirit. When reality is we can't.

he leads the right way, but we do not always chose to follow him.

when we get off the path, he is grieved, but does not leave us, but he chastens us to bring us back on path.

either way he leads us, 100 % of the time, from the moment we recieve him, to the moment we die and enter eternity.

 

[marianna]

I would mention that Christ died for them and let them know of how much Jesus went through, sublease Jesus, to torturously take on the sins of the world by subjecting Himself to NOT His will but His Father's .
How that act on the cross brought us to Christ and purged ALL'S sins from existence to non-existence, those who believe, their sins, past, present, future, are forgiven, Scripture says, gone to the 'sea of forgetfulness.' So, they're gone . You only need accept Christ and believe on Him for eternal life instead of eternal death.'

The Spirit will work from.there, mari, in a great and powerful way.

Amen

And, no, speaking of your post quote below, your argument is false , like your OSAS deadened belief

How can you go from truth to error in a single post?

11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. - Ephesians 4

the Spirit does not come into the believer immediately most often, it takes time for that new believer to just understand that they are saved and as they go to church more and more and increase their FAITH that person will show self ready for God to ask them a question, from 1 Cor. 6....

This is heresy. If they are A BELIEVER they have the Spirit.

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. - Acts 2:38

Don't you know, your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit

Indeed, no, the Spirit is received not at your want, but His. Don't try to take His gift, it is a 'gift,' mari, just like He imparts the Spirit to a believer,' He imparts the manifestation gifts of Hisself to those He deems ready for them to be GIVEN.

BUT, Christ, for those true in faith and running His way the Spirit is given. God does not hold back Hisself to one who faithfully iscwanting to know more of Him after having first believed in the Cross

Just dreadful.
Stop teaching!

 

[GreenNnice]

Brother,

this is their defence towards obedeince to God. It is argued that if one must follow Christ then that is work. If it is work then they will say, ' I wont follow His Spirit' (yet this part theysomehow agree to because it says Christ and will therefore look only at the grace part of salvation, while nullifying we are to be led by His Spirit. God indeeds lulls the spirit part of us and by such are we spoken to by His Spirit ).

This is the part that most do not understand, we are to reckon oneself dead to sin, Romans 6:11 thus we are alive to Christ made citizens of Heaven not earth. then put back here in the Holy Ghost as ambassadors representing the righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Ghost representing our new citizenship our home in heaven. There is no work of self here at all. There is work but it is not ours, there is righteousness, again it is not ours, there is peace and again it is not ours. it is all God's. We are just participators in this, and get credit for this from God not man.
So man quit from thy works and participate in the armour of God where you are save from thiefs for by participation in the finished work of Christ all your treasures are stored in Heaven, safe from all evil. Refrain from being fearful of this earth that can only kill the body, rather be fearful of the one that can kill both body and Soul, go to God in Private and ask for God who knows all secrets shall openly reward you. do not do your good deeds publicly, have God do them for you as God sees fit. Just have the motive to want to know God himself and you will see the trinity
homwardbound I am

Exactly, homward?

Eg, why do you like homeboundward's post???

it speaks of NOT grace alone for justification, it speaks of ONCE we are with His Spirit received -- whenever that time is as He leads us to Him IN us in that way--there is His leading and His leading, as Paul preached was to fight the flesh against our spirit (1 Cor. 7) and to do what our whole life ?

Run the race, fight the fight, ENDure, for our crown of life awaits in Christ Jesus, our upward prize

 

[marianna]

Mari, go start your OWN church thread somewhere else, quit detailing this one. Said in Love

Is it only you can post long thoughts about yourself and your life?
Not interested in what others have to say?
I was having a rather nice discussion with Crossfire, by the way.

 

[GreenNnice]

Homestead, well said.

Ourself does NONE of the work, Christ in us does ALL the work.

ALL GLORY TO GOD

Amen.

The Lord leads, we are to follow.

 

[GreenNnice]

Is it only you can post long thoughts about yourself and your life?
Not interested in what others have to say?
I was having a rather nice discussion with Crossfire, by the way.

Continue on, then

Did you read ALL my post? I said that you sounded like you were talking about those in church not supporting seekers, but, yoy were redeemed because crossfyre mentioned 'lose your salvation' which is what good ole OSAS is all so falsely faithed about.