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R
I do not practice sin as a lifestyle anymore..so if you are trying to 'get me' on a contradiction..you failed miserably..reread my post please regarding what 1 john 3:7-10 says, at least read it in your bible so you will see i did not make that one up!...it clearly says..that those who are of God do not practice sin..we will fight temptation until death at times and will at times fall..even King David did..yet he was a man after God's own heart..that said, do you think he practiced sin? What's your solution? Your fellow proponents seem to not have a solution, maybe you do..
simply believe? oh it sounds good, even a former favorite preacher of mine whom i went to see a while ago talked about you only need to believe, if there is something you have to do to get in God's books, then you listen to an inferior message..no, if you believe..you will have fruit..you will leave this old life..if you don't..well we know you are insincere. I am not advocating perfection..nobody has or is here..but i am simply saying..aim for perfection..sin has no more power over you than you give to it..
simply believe? oh it sounds good, even a former favorite preacher of mine whom i went to see a while ago talked about you only need to believe, if there is something you have to do to get in God's books, then you listen to an inferior message..no, if you believe..you will have fruit..you will leave this old life..if you don't..well we know you are insincere. I am not advocating perfection..nobody has or is here..but i am simply saying..aim for perfection..sin has no more power over you than you give to it..
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M
The you not practicing sin as a lifestyle anymore - is just like the rest of us. Would you expect the LORD to do in us what He is doing in you? Or are you more obedient, more special, more spiritual, more religious, more beloved? You're not without sin, so what are you?
You don't believe this, though do you.
Why do some just feel compelled to assume everybody who knows they are eternally secure is engaged in an orgy of sin, loving it (or not), unable to stop or learn self-control, not caring since they are "eternally secure"?
Anyone who loves to hate eternal security always goes to "but....you all love to sin", whereas "we are righteously fighting it, because we don't believe in eternal security"
You have sin. you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So what are you placing your hope in? Your valiant but failed efforts to be perfect?
This is about eternal security.
Exactly on what ground are you Justified (not guilty, perfectly righteous)?
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 5:1
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō
by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē.
Are those who hate eternal security the only Believers referred to above?
You don't believe this, though do you.
Why do some just feel compelled to assume everybody who knows they are eternally secure is engaged in an orgy of sin, loving it (or not), unable to stop or learn self-control, not caring since they are "eternally secure"?
Anyone who loves to hate eternal security always goes to "but....you all love to sin", whereas "we are righteously fighting it, because we don't believe in eternal security"
You have sin. you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So what are you placing your hope in? Your valiant but failed efforts to be perfect?
This is about eternal security.
Exactly on what ground are you Justified (not guilty, perfectly righteous)?
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 5:1
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō
by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē.Are those who hate eternal security the only Believers referred to above?
R
The you not practicing sin as a lifestyle anymore - is just like the rest of us. Would you expect the LORD to do in us what He is doing in you? Or are you more obedient, more special, more spiritual, more religious, more beloved? You're not without sin, so what are you?
You don't believe this, though do you.
Why do some just feel compelled to assume everybody who knows they are eternally secure is engaged in an orgy of sin, loving it (or not), unable to stop or learn self-control, not caring since they are "eternally secure"?
Anyone who loves to hate eternal security always goes to "but....you all love to sin", whereas "we are righteously fighting it, because we don't believe in eternal security"
You have sin. you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So what are you placing your hope in? Your valiant but failed efforts to be perfect?
This is about eternal security.
Exactly on what ground are you Justified (not guilty, perfectly righteous)?
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 5:1
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē.
Are those who hate eternal security the only Believers referred to above?
You don't believe this, though do you.
Why do some just feel compelled to assume everybody who knows they are eternally secure is engaged in an orgy of sin, loving it (or not), unable to stop or learn self-control, not caring since they are "eternally secure"?
Anyone who loves to hate eternal security always goes to "but....you all love to sin", whereas "we are righteously fighting it, because we don't believe in eternal security"
You have sin. you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So what are you placing your hope in? Your valiant but failed efforts to be perfect?
This is about eternal security.
Exactly on what ground are you Justified (not guilty, perfectly righteous)?
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 5:1
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō
by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē.Are those who hate eternal security the only Believers referred to above?
R
By the way, no one here said they are better..and i am not implying everyone is in an 'orgy of sin' But we must be carefull what these 'doctrines' teach and the implications of what they can possibly lead to.
Case in point..Westboro baptists say God hates gays, and why would they not? after all they are just trying to be good Calvinists!
Think about the implications of OSAS..I will not and many others do not believe this..you are secure IF YOU BELIEVE, and WALK in it.
Hebrews 3:12-14.
Have you held onto your confidence? and will you do so until the end? Then you and only then..are you 'secure'
Case in point..Westboro baptists say God hates gays, and why would they not? after all they are just trying to be good Calvinists!
Think about the implications of OSAS..I will not and many others do not believe this..you are secure IF YOU BELIEVE, and WALK in it.
Hebrews 3:12-14.
Have you held onto your confidence? and will you do so until the end? Then you and only then..are you 'secure'
Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2 shows the process/ time line of being saved by God.
Verses 1-3 shows how we were first sinners fulfilling the lust of the flesh.
Verses 4-7 shows what God does with us when He causes us to be born again, of the Spirit.
Verses 8-10 show how being born again is accomplished.
Verses 11-12 Are expounding on verses 1-3 and showing the difference between gentile and jew.
Verses 13-14 further expounding of verses 4-7 showing more of what God does with us when He causes us to be born again of the Spirit.
Verses 15-18 further expounding of verses 8-10 showing how being born again is accomplished.
Verses 19-22 Show what we are now that we have been born again.
We are saved, eternally, by Christ through faith and not by our works, lest any would boast. It is because salvation is not gained by our works that we know that our works cannot add to nor take away from our salvation. It is a gift from God.
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2 shows the process/ time line of being saved by God.
Verses 1-3 shows how we were first sinners fulfilling the lust of the flesh.
Verses 4-7 shows what God does with us when He causes us to be born again, of the Spirit.
Verses 8-10 show how being born again is accomplished.
Verses 11-12 Are expounding on verses 1-3 and showing the difference between gentile and jew.
Verses 13-14 further expounding of verses 4-7 showing more of what God does with us when He causes us to be born again of the Spirit.
Verses 15-18 further expounding of verses 8-10 showing how being born again is accomplished.
Verses 19-22 Show what we are now that we have been born again.
We are saved, eternally, by Christ through faith and not by our works, lest any would boast. It is because salvation is not gained by our works that we know that our works cannot add to nor take away from our salvation. It is a gift from God.
I could also make the argument that the opponents OSAS teach that it is up our own works to be totally sanctified, which is equally as dangerous. Which is the trap the Pharisees fell into. Both extremes are dangerous. But it does seems that the opponents of OSAS of the extreme measure are the ones screaming the loudest. As you know I'm in favor OSAS for the regenerate, the elect, but not those who proclaim Christ but never have a changed life up until their death.
So who are the ones in Matthew 7 who claim "‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" These are the one who claimed their works good enough to have saved them. Then in Matthew 25 have a similar passage, about the separation between the goats and sheep.
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
Looks like the righteous were not even aware of their works!
40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
Jesus assures them that if you have done anything of these things, you have done them unto Him. Jesus points out to them they are righteous, in the mist of their ignorance of the work they did. Jesus opens their eyes to the work that Jesus did through them, not really because they are ignorant of it, but IMO because they didn't do it to receive what's on the masters table, but out of their love for the Master, a pure motive that only the Lord can instill in the human heart. The Lord is the only one who can see through the heart and see their true motive. Therefore, I can not take any credit for what the Lord does through me.
Granted, that in the rest of the chapter the wicked ones on the left were not aware of their works either. The point I'm trying to make is were to these works come from, does it come from the flesh in that we want to take credit for our works in by making ourselves look Godly but all reality we are "full of it"? The only way to work all this out, is taking your verses that you use to support OS"not"AS and my verses that seem to support "OSAS", and compare them all to what the whole Word of God says. To shorten my response, I'll give you one example. Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, they became aware of good and evil and saw themselves as naked, they recognized their sin. There response was to make clothes out of fig leaves (a symbol of Israel btw), their works to cover their sin. In spite of them trying to cover their sin, their works, it wasn't good enough for God. So God kill and animal (probably a lamb), shedding of blood (the gospel proclaimed from the very beginning), but that wasn't all God did, God made the clothes for Adam and even as well. There was nothing they could do restore their relationship with, it's all the work of God.
Never forget how Satan deceived Adam and Eve, "and you will be like God,", don't ever think that your good works, that it is up to you, that saves you. Also, never should OSASers preach that you can lead a life of willful and habitual sin for Salvation comes from the heart, not lying lips:
Prayer with Confidence in Final Salvation
A Prayer of David.
17 Hear a just cause, O Lord,
Attend to my cry;
Give ear to my prayer which is not from deceitful lips.
Jeremiah 12:2
2 You have planted them, yes, they have taken root;
They grow, yes, they bear fruit.
You are near in their mouth
But far from their mind.
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Most of us OSAS don't advocate this "easy believism" either. We just say that once God regenerates you, you will have a change of heart. You will be conscience of how you live your live you life, and if you don't have a change of life, you weren't regenerated or eventually God will chastise you till He opens your again. How can you be born-again and not be a new creation, how can you not have a change of life? I can understand why you thing OSAS is dangerous, but I'm not worried about it, it's not my business to worry about, it's God's business. Because God saves who He saves and you can't be un-saved.
I'm going to try to refrain from responding to these types of threads and attacks from other Christians because these debates been going on and on for 2000 years and nothing really gets accomplished by them.
I'm going to try to refrain from responding to these types of threads and attacks from other Christians because these debates been going on and on for 2000 years and nothing really gets accomplished by them.
G
un-saved.
Books, I just LOVE this word.
From the pit of Hell !!!!
Blasphemy alone proves your theory theology wrong. And, let's not mention apostasy 'entanglings' like 2 Peter not 1 Tim. 4 .
Why dies God have Hebrews 6:4-6? Dunno. But a reborn man IS renewed and washed by the Spirit so that 'partaker of the Holy Spirit' was SAVED and, oh, no, green don't say that word , no, no, no, un-savnoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
In Christ alone ! Put your trust in Him . The Lord leads
Books, I just LOVE this word.
From the pit of Hell !!!!
Blasphemy alone proves your theory theology wrong. And, let's not mention apostasy 'entanglings' like 2 Peter not 1 Tim. 4 .
Why dies God have Hebrews 6:4-6? Dunno. But a reborn man IS renewed and washed by the Spirit so that 'partaker of the Holy Spirit' was SAVED and, oh, no, green don't say that word , no, no, no, un-savnoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
In Christ alone ! Put your trust in Him . The Lord leads
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding.
You're doing it wrong Green. You're trusting in your own heart and leaning unto your own understanding.
When the Lord Jesus said 'I will never leave you nor forsake you' I view that as a promise. I have faith in Him and what He says.
You're doing it wrong Green. You're trusting in your own heart and leaning unto your own understanding.
When the Lord Jesus said 'I will never leave you nor forsake you' I view that as a promise. I have faith in Him and what He says.
un-saved.
Books, I just LOVE this word.
From the pit of Hell !!!!
Blasphemy alone proves your theory theology wrong. And, let's not mention apostasy 'entanglings' like 2 Peter not 1 Tim. 4 .
Why dies God have Hebrews 6:4-6? Dunno. But a reborn man IS renewed and washed by the Spirit so that 'partaker of the Holy Spirit' was SAVED and, oh, no, green don't say that word , no, no, no, un-savnoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
In Christ alone ! Put your trust in Him . The Lord leads
Books, I just LOVE this word.
From the pit of Hell !!!!
Blasphemy alone proves your theory theology wrong. And, let's not mention apostasy 'entanglings' like 2 Peter not 1 Tim. 4 .
Why dies God have Hebrews 6:4-6? Dunno. But a reborn man IS renewed and washed by the Spirit so that 'partaker of the Holy Spirit' was SAVED and, oh, no, green don't say that word , no, no, no, un-savnoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
In Christ alone ! Put your trust in Him . The Lord leads
God bless you GreenNice, for your sake I hope you are right!
E
OSAS does not teach this, a licentious Gospel which uses OSAS inappropriately teaches this.
Thus before you go slamming people on their belief system, you should try to understand what it is they believe.
What do you have to say when the same passages says that one who practices unrighteousness has never seen God not have never known him?
Do we listen to john, and understand these people were never saved. Or listen to you, and say once apon a time someone who had a personal relationship with God and KNEW him, suddenly fell into sin and lost his relationship (salvation) and now do not know him.. See the major issue here?
Thus before you go slamming people on their belief system, you should try to understand what it is they believe.
What do you have to say when the same passages says that one who practices unrighteousness has never seen God not have never known him?
Do we listen to john, and understand these people were never saved. Or listen to you, and say once apon a time someone who had a personal relationship with God and KNEW him, suddenly fell into sin and lost his relationship (salvation) and now do not know him.. See the major issue here?
E
I don;t believe any of this. A child of God can't do this, because they woul dnot want to, and they have the spirit of God in them to keep them in line.'
Your fight is against the licenteous person, who according to scripture is not saved, and was never saved.
I know what you anti osas people are about. Your against licentiousness. Which we would be on the same page, but you do not understand your gospel is just as damning as their is.
Where they are to proud to admit they are sinful and deserving of judgment, thus have not repented. You are to proud to admit you can never be righteousness enough to earn anything but just condemnation thus you akso have not truely repented, because your still trusting self.
You both go down on Pride, and are to blind to see it.
The fact is, You have no clue what OSAS actually teaches.
I aim for perfection also. The difference is you do it out of fear God will take his gift back. Where I do it because I know my father loves me, and I want to please him.
'
You can deny this, but anyone who teaches you can lose salvation teaches a works based gospel.
Your fight is against the licenteous person, who according to scripture is not saved, and was never saved.
I know what you anti osas people are about. Your against licentiousness. Which we would be on the same page, but you do not understand your gospel is just as damning as their is.
Where they are to proud to admit they are sinful and deserving of judgment, thus have not repented. You are to proud to admit you can never be righteousness enough to earn anything but just condemnation thus you akso have not truely repented, because your still trusting self.
You both go down on Pride, and are to blind to see it.
The fact is, You have no clue what OSAS actually teaches.
I aim for perfection also. The difference is you do it out of fear God will take his gift back. Where I do it because I know my father loves me, and I want to please him.
'
You can deny this, but anyone who teaches you can lose salvation teaches a works based gospel.
M
Why were you so careless, as to ascribe to me something i did not nor would ever say: that we HAVE TO sin?
Why did you add a two letter word to discredit everything I posted, including scripture?
I think you saw what you wanted to see. Let's see what I said, compare to what John said, and see if you correct your error (?):
You're not without sin
You have sin.
you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So, rauleetoe, I did I say we HAVE TO sin?
Or did I say we HAVE sin?
That we are not without sin?
Did John say the same thing I said? Is John a heretic or did you jump the gun?
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us - 1 John 1:8
Neither John nor I said we HAVE TO SIN.
JOHN said we have sin. That if we claim to be without sin, we're lying.
Do you agree?
Did I not agree with you?
Do you think you're the only believer being sanctified?
Really?
Well aren't you religious.
Were they fighting and swearing and picking up women?
If not, then what's your problem?
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." - Matthew 11:19
Is that a rhetorical question, or do you really think that's what I would suggest you do?
No, the enemy would love to create a new generation of Pharisees. He does it regularly (or they do it themselves).
Why is this necessary?: "a lazy spiritual sluggard"
This is the standard response from those engulfed in pietism.
Why don't you just worry about your own sin (you are not without sin according to John), and then you can worry about others'.
And a word to wise. If you see Christians at peace, secure in Christ, try not to get all riled up the way you do. You're likely wrong in your unrighteous judgments 99% of the time.
The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?" - Luke 5:30
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" - Mark 2:16
Why did you add a two letter word to discredit everything I posted, including scripture?
I think you saw what you wanted to see. Let's see what I said, compare to what John said, and see if you correct your error (?):
The you not practicing sin as a lifestyle anymore - is just like the rest of us.
Would you expect the LORD to do in us what He is doing in you?
Or are you more obedient, more special, more spiritual, more religious, more beloved?
You're not without sin, so what are you?
You don't believe this, though do you.
Why do some just feel compelled to assume everybody who knows they are eternally secure is engaged in an orgy of sin, loving it (or not), unable to stop or learn self-control, not caring since they are "eternally secure"?
Anyone who loves to hate eternal security always goes to "but....you all love to sin", whereas "we are righteously fighting it, because we don't believe in eternal security"
You have sin.
you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So what are you placing your hope in?
Your valiant but failed efforts to be perfect?
This is about eternal security.
Exactly on what ground are you Justified (not guilty, perfectly righteous)?
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 5:1
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē.
Are those who hate eternal security the only Believers referred to above?
Would you expect the LORD to do in us what He is doing in you?
Or are you more obedient, more special, more spiritual, more religious, more beloved?
You're not without sin, so what are you?
You don't believe this, though do you.
Why do some just feel compelled to assume everybody who knows they are eternally secure is engaged in an orgy of sin, loving it (or not), unable to stop or learn self-control, not caring since they are "eternally secure"?
Anyone who loves to hate eternal security always goes to "but....you all love to sin", whereas "we are righteously fighting it, because we don't believe in eternal security"
You have sin.
you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So what are you placing your hope in?
Your valiant but failed efforts to be perfect?
This is about eternal security.
Exactly on what ground are you Justified (not guilty, perfectly righteous)?
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 5:1
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō
by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē.Are those who hate eternal security the only Believers referred to above?
You have sin.
you'll always have sin - as you admitted you'll never be perfect.
So, rauleetoe, I did I say we HAVE TO sin?
Or did I say we HAVE sin?
That we are not without sin?
Did John say the same thing I said? Is John a heretic or did you jump the gun?
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us - 1 John 1:8
Neither John nor I said we HAVE TO SIN.
JOHN said we have sin. That if we claim to be without sin, we're lying.
Do you agree?
Did I not agree with you?
Do you think you're the only believer being sanctified?
Really?
Well aren't you religious.
Were they fighting and swearing and picking up women?
If not, then what's your problem?
"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." - Matthew 11:19
Is that a rhetorical question, or do you really think that's what I would suggest you do?
No, the enemy would love to create a new generation of Pharisees. He does it regularly (or they do it themselves).
Why is this necessary?: "a lazy spiritual sluggard"
This is the standard response from those engulfed in pietism.
Why don't you just worry about your own sin (you are not without sin according to John), and then you can worry about others'.
And a word to wise. If you see Christians at peace, secure in Christ, try not to get all riled up the way you do. You're likely wrong in your unrighteous judgments 99% of the time.
The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, "Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?" - Luke 5:30
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" - Mark 2:16
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M
I found the "reform" part telling.
How do you know what they talk about or how they behave? Are you there at the bar also, or are you giving second or third hand reports (gossip)? No, I think this is just self-righteousness.
Religiosity.
You have no idea if they sinned or not. You just don't like their liberty in Christ, to not have to listen to people say 'taste not touch not handle not'.
How do you know what they talk about or how they behave? Are you there at the bar also, or are you giving second or third hand reports (gossip)? No, I think this is just self-righteousness.
Religiosity.
You have no idea if they sinned or not. You just don't like their liberty in Christ, to not have to listen to people say 'taste not touch not handle not'.
R
It also speaks of those who use their liberty as a stumbling block in 1 corinthians..and if you do so, that is something you gotta answer to God..all things are permitted..but are all things beneficial? You are permitted to have a beer, and go to bar..but does this benefit you and your walk..
if that makes me 'religious' when i clearly simply want to avoid things that may possibly be a cause for me or some other to stumble..then i guess i will be labeled this way. I know God knows my heart and knows i simply want to serve him, yes some who do not understand why i do what i do, or do not do what i do not do will simply say it is religiosity..and this is me saying this as a former beer snob, and bar hopper..very recently i was of that 'freedom/liberty', and i agree..it is not a sin to drink. But what if submission is more important than having 'freedom' to go as I please?
if that makes me 'religious' when i clearly simply want to avoid things that may possibly be a cause for me or some other to stumble..then i guess i will be labeled this way. I know God knows my heart and knows i simply want to serve him, yes some who do not understand why i do what i do, or do not do what i do not do will simply say it is religiosity..and this is me saying this as a former beer snob, and bar hopper..very recently i was of that 'freedom/liberty', and i agree..it is not a sin to drink. But what if submission is more important than having 'freedom' to go as I please?
R
Once again, this is why it is hard to have an honest 'conversation' in a thread like this..because you can read too much into whatever anyone is trying to convey.
For starters, i never said anyone was sinning or going to sin..but i have been there with those people..seeing how they were..lusting after women who were not their wives..being tempted..or thinking worldly thoughts, but trying to go back to talking about Jesus while looking at the cute female bartender. If that makes me 'self righteous' I do not give a rip honestly..because God's approval is more important than yours with all respect..
For starters, i never said anyone was sinning or going to sin..but i have been there with those people..seeing how they were..lusting after women who were not their wives..being tempted..or thinking worldly thoughts, but trying to go back to talking about Jesus while looking at the cute female bartender. If that makes me 'self righteous' I do not give a rip honestly..because God's approval is more important than yours with all respect..