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B
now would you not get offended also if someone called you a deceitful worker?
This thread topic is false.
The Doctrine of OSAS is true.
There are false ministers that say otherwise who's end is according to their works. -
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
The truth is the believer who trusts their salvation to Christ is sealed with the holy spirit. -
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:12,13)
The gospel in which a believer is saved is by the gift of God. It is not of yourselves or works for salvation -
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
The preaching of the cross is the gospel -
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:17, 18)
G
See, here we go, more OSASer misintepreting Eph. 2:8-9....
Please don't get offended faithofgracealonesavesme, (wow, ever think of changing your user name a bit shorter ), but, yeah, your qiote:
What a horrible brainwashing or teaching. Either/or, it's horrible.
The 'that' in this verse refers to 'faith,' for the 'saved' is a given, the grace is surely a given, 'that' sure don't mean 'works' either, or it dummifies Eph. 2:10, which is a verse speaking of our creation of doing works based on our WORKS? NO, silly, our FAITH. Get it. Dear Lord....Amen . I would sure hope, pray so, faithofgrace.....
Please don't get offended faithofgracealonesavesme, (wow, ever think of changing your user name a bit shorter
), but, yeah, your qiote: What a horrible brainwashing or teaching. Either/or, it's horrible.
The 'that' in this verse refers to 'faith,' for the 'saved' is a given, the grace is surely a given, 'that' sure don't mean 'works' either, or it dummifies Eph. 2:10, which is a verse speaking of our creation of doing works based on our WORKS? NO, silly, our FAITH. Get it. Dear Lord....Amen . I would sure hope, pray so, faithofgrace.....
C
I did not call you a deceitful worker. Here is the original post in its entirety-
This thread topic is false. -- I am the orignal threader. So, you said i made a false statement.
The Doctrine of OSAS is true.
There are false ministers that say otherwise who's end is according to their works. -- I preach the Truth against the OSAS doctrine. That makes me somewhat a minister per say. You add the adjective false. Therefore, you call me a false proclaimer of the Gospel.
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
The truth is the believer who trusts their salvation to Christ is sealed with the holy spirit. -
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:12,13)
The gospel in which a believer is saved is by the gift of God. It is not of yourselves or works for salvation -
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
The preaching of the cross is the gospel -
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:17, 18)
This thread topic is false. -- I am the orignal threader. So, you said i made a false statement.
The Doctrine of OSAS is true.
There are false ministers that say otherwise who's end is according to their works. -- I preach the Truth against the OSAS doctrine. That makes me somewhat a minister per say. You add the adjective false. Therefore, you call me a false proclaimer of the Gospel.
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
The truth is the believer who trusts their salvation to Christ is sealed with the holy spirit. -
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:12,13)
The gospel in which a believer is saved is by the gift of God. It is not of yourselves or works for salvation -
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
The preaching of the cross is the gospel -
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:17, 18)
B
Quote by GreenNnice -
See, here we go, more OSASer misintepreting Eph. 2:8-9....
Please don't get offended faithofgracealonesavesme, (wow, ever think of changing your user name a bit shorter ), but, yeah, your qiote:
See, here we go, more OSASer misintepreting Eph. 2:8-9....
Please don't get offended faithofgracealonesavesme, (wow, ever think of changing your user name a bit shorter
), but, yeah, your qiote:
Quote by Bygracesaved:
The gospel in which a believer is saved is by the gift of God. It is not of yourselves or works for salvation -For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)
Quote by GreenNnice -
GreenNnice, The verses in Ephesians 2:8 & 9 explain the gospel. Verse 10 is talking about our service. Look at the context -
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)
Workmanship is service unto good works
B
cfultz3, The scripture stands -
Appearing as a minister of righteousness misleading others is serious -
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:6-9)
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3)
Appearing as a minister of righteousness misleading others is serious -
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:6-9)
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3)
G
What I say is said in Love, and, I nic everybody, faithbygrace..., just ask cee
I am just led, to Truth, to helpnithers know His Truth, this I pray, could I be wrong , sure, hut the words I speakbare after much prayer and my rest is in Him as I live
I want you, faith... to see your understanding of Eph. 2:8,9 'that' word is wrong. The 'that'.refers to 'faith,' and, no, not 'saved, no, not 'grace,(, and, no, surely, not ''works' word. No. Faith.
This is a bread and butter verse of OSAS grave for their faith and the revelation of it's true meaning REVEALED should have them, Lord willing, re-think their JUDGMENT on others and understand their need for 'faithful' obedience in order to enter His 'rest,' spoken of greatly in Hebrews
And, that's right faithby.... we are to preach the gospel or be accursed, so QUIT telling people the wrong understanding of 'that' modifier in Eph. 2:8-9 . You said it yourself, youbwill be 'accursed' if you do !
I am just led, to Truth, to helpnithers know His Truth, this I pray, could I be wrong , sure, hut the words I speakbare after much prayer and my rest is in Him as I live
I want you, faith... to see your understanding of Eph. 2:8,9 'that' word is wrong. The 'that'.refers to 'faith,' and, no, not 'saved, no, not 'grace,(, and, no, surely, not ''works' word. No. Faith.
This is a bread and butter verse of OSAS grave for their faith and the revelation of it's true meaning REVEALED should have them, Lord willing, re-think their JUDGMENT on others and understand their need for 'faithful' obedience in order to enter His 'rest,' spoken of greatly in Hebrews
And, that's right faithby.... we are to preach the gospel or be accursed, so QUIT telling people the wrong understanding of 'that' modifier in Eph. 2:8-9 . You said it yourself, youbwill be 'accursed' if you do !
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B
Quote by GreenNnice -
You are correct. Faith in that verse is speaking of Christ's faith not our faith.That is why it says not of ourselves, not of works - Please see these verses:
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)
You are correct. Faith in that verse is speaking of Christ's faith not our faith.That is why it says not of ourselves, not of works - Please see these verses:
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)
C
KJV Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it isthe gift of God:
KJV Eph 2:9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:8-9 Seeing that (reason why through Christ Jesus) by that grace we are saved through (channel of an act) that faith (religion) and that (being saved through that faith by grace) not (abs. neg.) from(source) us, but is God's gift, neither (abs. neg.) from (source) works so that no one would have boast of himself (middle deponent).
Notes:
τουτοG3778 D-NSN - (that) = the only other thing in the neuter is 'gift'. It cannot be connect to 'gift' because it has it own definite articled attached to it. It can only pertain to what statement was made previously, as though speaking of it as a thing. But, the gift is that we are saved through faith by grace. Example: He loves everyone and that is good.
Every religion has it rules to be followed. Faith in those two verses is not the verb 'to believe in', but is a noun 'religion, persuasion, conivction'. One of the rules from Jesus was to follow His commandments. We place our confidence in Him and so by doing that is our religion. So, if your God says to do this or that, then we must do this or that. Again, not to earn it but to maintain it, seeing that salvation is by an gracious act from God through Christ Jesus.
KJV Eph 2:9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:8-9 Seeing that (reason why through Christ Jesus) by that grace we are saved through (channel of an act) that faith (religion) and that (being saved through that faith by grace) not (abs. neg.) from(source) us, but is God's gift, neither (abs. neg.) from (source) works so that no one would have boast of himself (middle deponent).
Notes:
τουτοG3778 D-NSN - (that) = the only other thing in the neuter is 'gift'. It cannot be connect to 'gift' because it has it own definite articled attached to it. It can only pertain to what statement was made previously, as though speaking of it as a thing. But, the gift is that we are saved through faith by grace. Example: He loves everyone and that is good.
Every religion has it rules to be followed. Faith in those two verses is not the verb 'to believe in', but is a noun 'religion, persuasion, conivction'. One of the rules from Jesus was to follow His commandments. We place our confidence in Him and so by doing that is our religion. So, if your God says to do this or that, then we must do this or that. Again, not to earn it but to maintain it, seeing that salvation is by an gracious act from God through Christ Jesus.
G
Fabulous. The Lord leads. I apologize then, your writing the verse in bold gave me thecwrong impression, and, everyone since I did thread of 'what does 'that' refer to in Eph. 2:8-9 ' thread, from OSAS crowd, anyway, says that 'that' modifies either 'grace,' or 'salvation' or 'works.'. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Good, you got the right thinking The Lord leads
Good, you got the right thinking
The Lord leads
B
Fabulous. The Lord leads. I apologize then, your writing the verse in bold gave me thecwrong impression, and, everyone since I did thread of 'what does 'that' refer to in Eph. 2:8-9 ' thread, from OSAS crowd, anyway, says that 'that' modifies either 'grace,' or 'salvation' or 'works.'. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Good, you got the right thinking The Lord leads
Good, you got the right thinking
The Lord leads
Yes, It is always God that leads.
Their focal point is lower, that's all.
They look to an ever abiding grace that is somehow within themselves
to answer the call of God and save them.
".......Peeps!!!!......Listen to what I say.......
God saves you, yea(I know) that's true....but.... "without faith it is impossible to please God!!! (peeps)"
They look to an ever abiding grace that is somehow within themselves
to answer the call of God and save them.
".......Peeps!!!!......Listen to what I say.......
God saves you, yea(I know) that's true....but.... "without faith it is impossible to please God!!! (peeps)"
A
right! reminds me of the acne days of junior high.
this verse drew me at the start: "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
And another: Heb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
this verse drew me at the start: "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
And another: Heb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
A
Their focal point is lower, that's all.
They look to an ever abiding grace that is somehow within themselves
to answer the call of God and save them.
".......Peeps!!!!......Listen to what I say.......
God saves you, yea(I know) that's true....but.... "without faith it is impossible to please God!!! (peeps)"
They look to an ever abiding grace that is somehow within themselves
to answer the call of God and save them.
".......Peeps!!!!......Listen to what I say.......
God saves you, yea(I know) that's true....but.... "without faith it is impossible to please God!!! (peeps)"