*PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA IS RE-ELECTED!!*
- Thread starter HeavenlyWarrior
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S
Pretty much. In my view his economic platform is slightly left of center and his social platform is far left.
Honestly this one wasn't a huge deal for me.
Also not a huge deal for me, I know plenty of people that used drugs when they where young and turned out to be good people, since people do in fact change.
Allow me to demonstrate:
The decadent Greeks and their empire fell to an expanding conservative Roman republic
The orgiastic moral license of the Western Roman Empire fell to Christian barbarians and was replaced with probably the most conservative time on historical record.
The sweeping wave of Communism in the early 20th century floundered.
The great progressive empire the USSR was supposed to usher in fell and now Russia is probably one of the more morally conservative countries as are most of it's former satellite countries.
Because while you look as "liberals always winning" as old ideas like slavery, sexual discrimination, and racial discrimination going out the window; I look at it like this: Conservatism as we know it today has always been based on personal liberty with strong moral foundations, and know we're down to two issues that really define morality, gay marriage and the murder of the unborn. I know plenty of people of no religious persuasion whose stomachs turn at the thought of both, because deep down we know that both are unnatural and one of them is outright murder.
Unless they don't. The morally conservative policies instituted by Augustus were rolled back by more licentious emperors, only to have their policies rolled back by more moral emperors later. The radically liberal policies of conservative France were rolled back by Napoleon, which were then rolled back by the later Republic, which were then rolled back by the restored monarchy.
Look anywhere in history and the story is always the same, because the inborn psychological inclinations that make us lean right or left are always there, and always will be there.
Of course there is always the possibility of a religious renewal sweeping the West again, in which case liberals get to start from square one.
Or another global war breaks out and nationalism and patriotism makes everyone a conservative again
Basically to paraphrase my great grandfather: "Lots of folks like to look down on conservatives when times are good and we feel invincible, but as soon as the world breaks out in war they all run to us for help and leadership".
Honestly this one wasn't a huge deal for me.
Also not a huge deal for me, I know plenty of people that used drugs when they where young and turned out to be good people, since people do in fact change.
Allow me to demonstrate:
The decadent Greeks and their empire fell to an expanding conservative Roman republic
The orgiastic moral license of the Western Roman Empire fell to Christian barbarians and was replaced with probably the most conservative time on historical record.
The sweeping wave of Communism in the early 20th century floundered.
The great progressive empire the USSR was supposed to usher in fell and now Russia is probably one of the more morally conservative countries as are most of it's former satellite countries.
Because while you look as "liberals always winning" as old ideas like slavery, sexual discrimination, and racial discrimination going out the window; I look at it like this: Conservatism as we know it today has always been based on personal liberty with strong moral foundations, and know we're down to two issues that really define morality, gay marriage and the murder of the unborn. I know plenty of people of no religious persuasion whose stomachs turn at the thought of both, because deep down we know that both are unnatural and one of them is outright murder.
Unless they don't. The morally conservative policies instituted by Augustus were rolled back by more licentious emperors, only to have their policies rolled back by more moral emperors later. The radically liberal policies of conservative France were rolled back by Napoleon, which were then rolled back by the later Republic, which were then rolled back by the restored monarchy.
Look anywhere in history and the story is always the same, because the inborn psychological inclinations that make us lean right or left are always there, and always will be there.
Of course there is always the possibility of a religious renewal sweeping the West again, in which case liberals get to start from square one.
Or another global war breaks out and nationalism and patriotism makes everyone a conservative again
Basically to paraphrase my great grandfather: "Lots of folks like to look down on conservatives when times are good and we feel invincible, but as soon as the world breaks out in war they all run to us for help and leadership".
B
how can people be so quick to judge by calling him not a man of god how would any of you know what sort of faith is held dont be so righteous in what you say the only man that should be judging is the big man upstairs so dont be so ignorant and think that you are right because what your doing now is bringing people down speaking DEATH (negativity) about people when really we should be speaking life (Words of Praise) spreading the word and sharing amongst others just because you have an opinion about something doesnt mean you should always share it.
S
*Points at Greece and the historically low value of the Euro.
**Then points at riots in France
***Then points at riots in Greece
****Then points at the oppressive poverty in many Asian countries
*****Then points at the oppressive Chinese regime
******Points at the deep austerity measures in Italy and Spain, also points at riots in Spain
*******Finally points at the eventual disintegration of the EU as an economic union
**Then points at riots in France
***Then points at riots in Greece
****Then points at the oppressive poverty in many Asian countries
*****Then points at the oppressive Chinese regime
******Points at the deep austerity measures in Italy and Spain, also points at riots in Spain
*******Finally points at the eventual disintegration of the EU as an economic union
S
Actually the Democrats don't have a super majority....
They picked up two seats and when you include the two independents that will caucus with the Democrats they have 55 out of 100 seats, and they need 61 to pass a cloture motion on a Republican filibuster, which they don't have.
So yes, theoretically they could pass whatever they wanted in the Senate, but in practice the Republicans can kill a vote on the measure with a filibuster.
They picked up two seats and when you include the two independents that will caucus with the Democrats they have 55 out of 100 seats, and they need 61 to pass a cloture motion on a Republican filibuster, which they don't have.
So yes, theoretically they could pass whatever they wanted in the Senate, but in practice the Republicans can kill a vote on the measure with a filibuster.
Ricky, sorry but your trying to patronize me doesn't work here either. Sometimes, as the song goes, you have to "...march into hell for a heavenly cause..." And that cause, in part, is to expose the agenda of the Right Wingers who are the ones truly trying to pass themselves off as having a 'holier than thou' attitude', as you put it, when the facts speak for themselves such as non-action on The Dream Act that would help Hispanics and Latinos as well as efforts to help the poor, the elderly, minorities, and women of this country as Christ would have them do. Their rhetoric did not work in this election where it was thought the people of this country preferred Conservatives and their family values and you are still foaming at the mouth about it as one can plainly see and I do understand no matter what you may try to say. That's just the way the ball bounces so sit down and take a deep breath, relax, and get over your defeat already. Calling me names and innuendo isn't going to help or change how others view you and your party but only help for them to see the truly transparent you. Apparently, you cannot come together in harmony, unity and peace, etc. therefore, we will pray for you in that God blesses you too as He has President Obama. Have a good evening!
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
S
Uh no. These are deeply rooted cultural and religious values your talking about, these don't change quickly, if at all. Barring some massive conversion of Latinos to liberal Protestantism or a massive flip in moral stances by the Catholic Church they will continue to oppose gay marriage.
Did you not read the post? I just said they place immigration above all else.
Let me break it down for you: When I looked at the numbers Hispanic of any race always made up less than 15% in all of those states, Washington is 90% non-Hispanic white for crying out loud.
Like I said if Republicans put forward a candidate with a comprehensive plan for immigration reform then Democrats will have to try real hard to win the Latino vote.
Did you not read the post? I just said they place immigration above all else.
Let me break it down for you: When I looked at the numbers Hispanic of any race always made up less than 15% in all of those states, Washington is 90% non-Hispanic white for crying out loud.
Like I said if Republicans put forward a candidate with a comprehensive plan for immigration reform then Democrats will have to try real hard to win the Latino vote.
Ricky, sorry but your trying to patronize me doesn't work here either. Sometimes, as the song goes, you have to "...march into hell for a heavenly cause..." And that cause, in part, is to expose the agenda of the Right Wingers who are the ones truly trying to pass themselves off as having a 'holier than thou' attitude', as you put it, when the facts speak for themselves such as non-action on The Dream Act that would help Hispanics and Latinos as well as efforts to help the poor, the elderly, minorities, and women of this country as Christ would have them do. Their rhetoric did not work in this election where it was thought the people of this country preferred Conservatives and their family values and you are still foaming at the mouth about it as one can plainly see and I do understand no matter what you may try to say. That's just the way the ball bounces so sit down and take a deep breath, relax, and get over your defeat already. Calling me names and innuendo isn't going to help or change how others view you and your party but only help for them to see the truly transparent you. Apparently, you cannot come together in harmony, unity and peace, etc. therefore, we will pray for you in that God blesses you too as He has President Obama. Have a good evening!
Nicknames show the mentality of the one who presumptively tags them onto other people.
It is a device to make the other one small in one's own eyes.
George W. Bush used this tactic often. Infact, he nicknamed everyone he worked with.
So, you and him share the same mentality. As well as supporting the Dream Act, which he also supported.
Congratulations, you are W. light. You must be proud of yourself. B.T.W., I didn't support him either, so , don't feel too left out.
Nicknames show the mentality of the one who presumptively tags them onto other people.
It is a device to make the other one small in one's own eyes.
George W. Bush used this tactic often. Infact, he nicknamed everyone he worked with.
So, you and him share the same mentality. As well as supporting the Dream Act, which he also supported.
Congratulations, you are W. light. You must be proud of yourself. B.T.W., I didn't support him either, so , don't feel too left out.
T
I do pray for the leadership of this country. The President is supposed to be a voice of the people in government to restrain tyranny and protect the rights of the American people in accordance with the constitution. The actions of the present administration, illegal wars, 'ruling by executive order', NDAA , etc; are no less than a dictatorship. I pray for a new President. Not a dictator.
Hey Dude, it looks like you are reflecting your own opinion here based upon your little saying -- "I respect your opinion, You're entitled to be wrong.
" And you are certainly entitled to be WRONG, which you certainly are on this.
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
You are delusional if you believe that. They will continue to see the party as a whole and what the Conservatives have done and not done for them and how they have stood in their way of progress and They Will REMEMBER! Just look at what is happening with laws such as the one Arizona championed that Latinos/Hispanics consider a Profiling Law! It was championed and brought about by Non-Hispanics/Latinos. And remember the Arizona sheriff and the treatment of Hispanics/Latinos and how they are now looking at his actions? But there are also courts to address those egregious issues more quickly. And just assuming a Republican was to be found to support immigration reform, that is not going to automatically translate into becoming the miraculous panacea for them. If you don't believe me let's just put it to the test! There are a whole lot of other issues for them besides immigration reform, fyi, and you'd better believe that Latinos and Hispanics are not strictly a One-Issue group!
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
S
They probably won't remember. Case in point is the entire South abandoning the Democratic party in 10 years after they stopped being the party of social conservatism in the 60s, and Democrats had dominated the South since the 1860's. What makes you think Latinos, which do not have a long track record of voting Democratic and actually swung for Bush are any different?
And Arizona, with it's large Latino population, still went for Romney, and is still controled by a Republican state legislature
It looks like they are, since they only started to swing democratic when Republicans started to strongly support going after illegal immigrants.
Just look above.
And how does that disprove the fact that no state with a substantial Latino population has approved gay marriage by referendum?
I am not American but as an outside observer on the presidential election, I wanted to chip in a few things. Like most of you, I am also a Christian with strong biblical 'moral principles' and I can absolutely understand the concern raised by fellow Christians on Obama. I live in a Christian minority country where in some of the states, Christians are persecuted from time to time (though I have never faced the persecution myself mainly because I have not been exposed to those particular regions where persecution takes place). The city where I live now has also legalised gay marriages a few years back and abortion is not considered a crime. However, despite all the laws not favoring Christian 'moral principles', it has not affected my faith or the faith of many Christians living here as nobody has the legal right to force me to go against or compromise my Christian 'moral principle'. In fact, I have not seen or heard any gays/homosexuals practice/marriage in my community which is 99% Christians. And despite Christian missionaries persecuted in some hindu belt, Christians have not stop sending missionaries to these regions or reaching out to people all over the country. Also, Being a minority, we have never had a Christian leader occupying the highest office so far and even if we were to have a Christian leader, I do not think he would be able to implement or do anything much for Christians. I am just grateful that atleast, the constitution of my country allows freedom of religion despite some religious radicals (non-Christians) not heeding it.
China is also another country where Christians are a minority. It is worse there as Christians cannot openly worship God. But if insiders story is true, China has the largest no. of Christians growing in nos.
Therefore, I feel that Religion and states should be separated and America being one of the superpower country and one of the largest stakeholder in global policy/politics, should think more along the line of a global leader and not necessarily on Christian 'moral principles'. Therefore, whether Obama supports or legalised stem cell research, abortion or gay marriages, I dont think he would forced anyone leave alone the Christians to go for it against their will. So, it is really up to the Christian individuals to either stay firm in their faith or abandon their faith based on the states law. I believed one should come on their own volition to accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour including upholding Christian 'moral principle'. If the individual professes to be Christian and not uphold its moral principle, then he/she alone will be answerable/accountable to God. Instead of wanting states law to enforce Christian 'moral principle' wouldnt it be more fruitful to work at the grass root level by reaching out to people/youngsters with the gospel and letting the holy spirit convict them of their worldview? What would be the point of enforcing states law if their hearts are not right with God?
China is also another country where Christians are a minority. It is worse there as Christians cannot openly worship God. But if insiders story is true, China has the largest no. of Christians growing in nos.
Therefore, I feel that Religion and states should be separated and America being one of the superpower country and one of the largest stakeholder in global policy/politics, should think more along the line of a global leader and not necessarily on Christian 'moral principles'. Therefore, whether Obama supports or legalised stem cell research, abortion or gay marriages, I dont think he would forced anyone leave alone the Christians to go for it against their will. So, it is really up to the Christian individuals to either stay firm in their faith or abandon their faith based on the states law. I believed one should come on their own volition to accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour including upholding Christian 'moral principle'. If the individual professes to be Christian and not uphold its moral principle, then he/she alone will be answerable/accountable to God. Instead of wanting states law to enforce Christian 'moral principle' wouldnt it be more fruitful to work at the grass root level by reaching out to people/youngsters with the gospel and letting the holy spirit convict them of their worldview? What would be the point of enforcing states law if their hearts are not right with God?
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Hey Dude, it looks like you are reflecting your own opinion here based upon your little saying -- "I respect your opinion, You're entitled to be wrong.
" And you are certainly entitled to be WRONG, which you certainly are on this.
-----------------------------------------------------------You can disagree,,This is America, after all.
-----------------------------------------------------------You can disagree,,This is America, after all.
Listen, the Republicans are the very ones who keep throwing wrenches into allowing them to vote, remember? They are the ones coming up with all these egregious laws of showing IDs, proving where they're from, etc. all which are like having to get a Poll Tax as in the 50's only this time for Hispanics and Latinos. For that reason, I have heard, many Hispanics/Latinos stayed home and did not go out to vote so I can't imagine you throwing it all on them in this way. That just isn't an accurate depiction of what happened. In fact, in many states with Hispanic and Latino populations they had to send federal people and others to insure that there was no intimidation going on! But many still did not go out to vote. Arizona has been a Red State and remained red no doubt with the strong help of Anglos, not Latinos or Hispanics. Remember the news reports that Anglo men were overwhelmingly voting for Romney? And let's not beat around the bush, it is by the far right Anglo vote that Gay Marriage has suffered there so let's just call a spade a spade.
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
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Let us all now come together in harmony, unity and peace, and stay focused on a salient purpose that will be of great benefit to the American people. -- HeavenlyWarrior
What is wrong with showing an ID to vote, that should be mandatory to show a photo ID to vote so that you can prove that you are eligible to vote and that you are, in fact, who you claim to be. We have to do that here in Florida and I don't see the big deal, if you don't have a driver's license you can get an ID card from the DMV.
B
The whole point of showing an ID to vote is to cut back on voter identity fraud. This is a great idea, if voter identity fraud was actually a problem. A recent study pulled all the claimed cases of voter ID fraud since 2000 (2,068 cases total), which is 10 cases per ever 15 million prospective voters. That's nothing. Out of those 2,068 cases, 491 of those were absentee ballot fraud and 400 were cases of registration fraud. The voter ID law does not prevent these from happening.
Now, let's look at how many people are going to be unable to vote due to this new law. Just in Pennsylvania, 758,000 eligible voters do not have photo ID, which is 9% of registered voters. Roughly 11% of Americans don't have proper photo ID that would allow them to vote. 9% of white people don't have the elegible ID, compared with 25% of black people and 16% of Hispanics.
Now why are we making it difficult or impossible for three quarters of a million Americans to vote because of 2,068 cases of voter fraud in the past TWELVE YEARS (many of which WON'T be prevented with this law)??
I'm getting these statistics from here and here, but feel free to research yourself.
Now, let's look at how many people are going to be unable to vote due to this new law. Just in Pennsylvania, 758,000 eligible voters do not have photo ID, which is 9% of registered voters. Roughly 11% of Americans don't have proper photo ID that would allow them to vote. 9% of white people don't have the elegible ID, compared with 25% of black people and 16% of Hispanics.
Now why are we making it difficult or impossible for three quarters of a million Americans to vote because of 2,068 cases of voter fraud in the past TWELVE YEARS (many of which WON'T be prevented with this law)??
I'm getting these statistics from here and here, but feel free to research yourself.
B
It might not be hard for you, but you don't know everybody's situation. There are several reasons why it's not necessarily easy for someone to get one.
First of all, government-issued IDs aren't free. True, they're not exactly expensive, but in some states it costs as much as 25 dollars. Some people just can't afford this. Not only that, but not everybody drives or has a DMV near them. You have to factor in how people get there. Then, and if you've been to the DMV you are surely aware of this, you can wind up waiting for hours. If you don't have much money you can't afford to take this much time off work.
And let me throw this out there. I'm not sure I'd have AS MUCH of a problem with it if this happened last year, with lots of time before the election for people to get an ID. But considering how many people don't have proper ID, an exponential amount of those voting democrat, it's absolutely unreasonable to assume that they'll be able to get proper ID in time.
First of all, government-issued IDs aren't free. True, they're not exactly expensive, but in some states it costs as much as 25 dollars. Some people just can't afford this. Not only that, but not everybody drives or has a DMV near them. You have to factor in how people get there. Then, and if you've been to the DMV you are surely aware of this, you can wind up waiting for hours. If you don't have much money you can't afford to take this much time off work.
And let me throw this out there. I'm not sure I'd have AS MUCH of a problem with it if this happened last year, with lots of time before the election for people to get an ID. But considering how many people don't have proper ID, an exponential amount of those voting democrat, it's absolutely unreasonable to assume that they'll be able to get proper ID in time.