6 Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses

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T

TJ12

Guest
Hello hopesprings,

Since that Greek word for "grasped" has two meanings, you cannot demand it only means one thing. A thing seized, is a thing already seized, or held as a prize.
Ok, now I get the nuance. You're saying it's something already seized in the past. If that's your definition, then when did Jesus seize equality with God?

I thought that by discussing Phil. 2 instead, that perhaps things would take a different turn, but you are ignoring the fact that grasped has two meanings - and the meaning that you are trying to say is definite does not fit the context of Jesus already being in the form of God.
I'm not ignoring anything hopesprings, I'm only applying reason to your argument. It's indisputable that the Greek word references a seizure of something that one does not possess. Paul leads up to this by telling Christians to reject selfish ambition and to use Jesus' example as a model, wherein he refused to attempt seizing equality with God. This is the natural and logical meaning of the verse.

Your reasoning it away just like you did in Isaiah.
Does "reasoning it away" mean I'm making just too much darn sense? Because, yes, I'm applying reason to all of this.

Your example of 'foreign god' is terrible because God is never called 'foreign God'.
And that's the point! It was your stated rule that whenever the term 'God' is used with a qualifier, any old qualifier, that the reference must be the one God. This was constructed to make 'mighty god' effectively mean the same as 'almighty god'. It's simply wrong.

What about my counterexample? Why did Jesus reject the title of "Good Teacher" and rebuke the man, saying that God alone is good? (Mark 10:17-18)
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,

Exhausting... I'm still gnawing on the Judges 13 example... arghhh.... crosseyed!
Heh, I can understand. But if you understand how the Bible uses these terms, these pieces all fall into place. Agents of God take on similar titles to God because they are performing similar functions in behalf of God. Often times they're addressed as if they're God himself.

To see this clearly, first read Matthew 8:5-13 and picture the account in your mind. Then read Luke's parallel account at Luke 7:1-10 and see how your impression of events is altered. This is common in the Bible, especially for those sent forth by God (Jesus being chief among them).
 

know1

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Aug 27, 2012
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Hello TJ12, how's it going? You still there? I said it would take me days before I could get this thing finished, and so it has.
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hi know1,

I'm still here and I'd still appreciate your thoughts. :)
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Hi know1,

I'm still here and I'd still appreciate your thoughts. :)
This is going to take me some time just to get it posted. I can't just copy and paste. There's no bold, color, or underline type.
 
H

hopesprings

Guest
Okay TJ...I'm done. Perhaps someone else on here is more qualified to debate with you...mighty is a qualifier used for God Almighty, and it is a qualifier used for Jesus. You are reasoning away the scriptrues, but I get that you don't see this...and your arguments do not really make sense...but I get that you don't see that either. Oh, and if you actually read Mark 10 you will see that Jesus didn't rebuke the people for calling him good..he simply asked WHY they were calling him good if only God is good...this is pretty straightfoward considering he then proceeded to answer the people. Just saying. Thanks for the conversation.
Take care
hopesprings
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hello hopesprings,

Oh, and if you actually read Mark 10 you will see that Jesus didn't rebuke the people for calling him good..he simply asked WHY they were calling him good if only God is good...this is pretty straightfoward considering he then proceeded to answer the people.
I get that you're frustrated, but I have read the account. Here it is:

"And as [Jesus] was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone'...And [the man] said to him, 'Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth.'"

Did you notice that the man dropped the "Good" from the "Good Teacher" title he was giving to Jesus? That's because Jesus rebuked him.

Nevertheless, thank you for the discussion. I wish you well.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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This is going to look long and boring and much of the emphasis will be missing but I don't have time to fix it on this post. So, here it is.
I probably stand alone on many of the things I address in this post as no one taught me much of what I believe and write below.
As I said earlier, I have read some of your posts along with some from the others and from what I’ve seen, you are no pushover or slouch concerning the scriptures of your faith. Frankly, some of what you were talking about was above me. I’m not much good with sentence structure or grammar. I myself have no title attached to my name, I haven’t gone to any church in better than 15 years, my education and aptitude probably is a little below normal, in short, an insignificant nobody in and of myself. But, I do have God in me, leading, teaching, and giving me some understanding to discern some scriptures concerning some doctrines.
You on the other hand, from what I perceive are, above the average intellect, educated, and probably hold some title, such as pastor. I would also venture to guess that you have material and have been educated from the JW’s faith concerning these and every other question that has arisen due to the attacks that have been directed at your faith over the many years of its existence, and that you yourself have been through this a number of times. In short, as I see it, you are a prized fighter, so to speak, using this forum as a platform. I commend you on your arguments. You would do well as a defense attorney. So, I am just going to tell you how I see God because to me, it is simple and clear, even though I only see it in part. The difficulty will be in showing you with scripture. As in most things in the bible, it is not clearly seen and can easily be translated more than one way.
I already know that you will not, nor will you be able, to see this doctrine any other way other than the way you do now and that you will surely come up with something in scripture that would say contrary, because as Jesus said, Joh_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. The same holds true with doctrines, for again He said, Luk_16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Though this is talking about money, again, the same hold true to whatever you are loyal to or hold as dear to you. This is the law of the heart for it says, Rom_2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; You will either accuse others and/or excuse yourself and all you love and hold dear to you.
You are not alone though, as I have seen this time and time again with almost everyone. They become loyal to, or hold to a denomination’s/pastor’s belief/faith as their own and it becomes dear to them. It is like someone coming against a family member. If they come against a family member, they just came against you, and they will have to deal with you.
In the spirit world, spirits are or become whatever their name is. For example, fear is a spirit and the spirit of fear causes fear in the heart of a person because the spirit is fear. This is one reason why Jesus asked the demon in the man of Gadara what its name was. Mar_5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. The head demon speaking here is what its name is. Just like a centurion was a leader of 100 men. Therefore, when Jesus called Himself, the ‘I AM’ before Moses and the Pharisees it was because He IS whatever we could want or need. Like He said to Abraham, Gen_15:1 After these things the word of the LORD

came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
And concerning the hotly contested scripture in Jn 1:1, Jesus is called the Word of God, because He IS the Word of God the Father.
I see the JW’s faith to be partial concerning this, as they infer the word, “A” before the word ‘God’ only after the word, ‘Word‘, meaning Jesus, because it is against their theology, using the excuse that there is no Greek word for the English word, “A“. So, if you are going to infer a word before one god, then you should do the same with the other five that are written. So the scripture should be written as such;
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with A god, and the Word was A god.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with A god.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of A god, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of A god.
Not Jehovah God but A god, as in another son of the big G. Of course, it is obvious that this does not fit. Neither does inferring a word before only one selected god.
The name given to Jesus is not just a pretty title given to Him but rather it defines, in part, who HE IS. When the bible says that He is the Word of God the Father, it’s because HE IS!
JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD THE FATHER!
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
JESUS IS THE TRUTH!
How can a person be the truth?
By being the Word of God!
Again, being the Truth of God, lines up with being the Word of God the Father.
What is the power of God?
Heb_11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. This is not symbolic of Jesus, it is a part of Him. We know that Jesus made all things, yet here the word of God the Father made all things. That is because Jesus IS the Word of God the Father.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of [or from] myself: but [are of or from] the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works. [added for clarity]
1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross [The Word of God] is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God [the Father].
It is the Word of God that is the power of God. But wait, the bible also says,
1Co_1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God [the Father], and the wisdom of God[the father] .
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ [or the word of God]: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Luk 8:46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue [or power] is gone out of me.
Luk 6:19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue [or power] out of him, and healed them all.
1Co_5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
The bible says that both the Word of God and Jesus are the power of God the Father. How can you be the power of God the Father except you be the Word of the Father.
Again, Jesus is the Truth, and the Power of God, therefore the Word of God the Father.
Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickened [makes alive]; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jesus said that He is life and yet He says that the words He speaks are life.
Again, Jesus is the Truth, the Power, and the Life of God to mankind, therefore the Word of God the Father.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
 

know1

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Aug 27, 2012
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What is the flesh of Jesus and what is His blood?
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. The Word, or Spirit, of Christ Jesus, is the Word of God the Father! That also is the blood of Jesus that we are to drink, by believing His word, that we may never thirst again.
Eph_5:26 says that we are clean thru the washing of water by the word of God the Father.
Eze 36:26 A new [or fresh ] heart also will I give you, and a new [or fresh] spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause [literally, to make or to cause] you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Here we have what happens to the born again child of God in the spirit. Notice the heart of flesh. When Jesus was saying to eat His flesh, He was saying to eat His HEART of flesh, which is spirit.

It may look like I’m off or going off the beaten path, but bare with me, it will lead into the subject of discussion.
The ancient Hebrew language was composed of an alphabet of ideographs combined with pictographs which carried basic conceptual values, ideas, and sounds.
The first letter of the Hebrew alphabet is Aleph, which originally, looked like the yoke of an ox. It was intended to represent an ox to symbolize strength, the first, or the leader.
The next Hebrew letter in their alphabet is Beth, which originally looked like a triangle with an continuing line extending to the left of its base. It meant house and represented the family or that which was inside.
When put together, the word, ‘ab’ meant the leader, strength, or first of the house or family. Thus translated as, Father. In Greek, it is Abba for Father.
Another letter of the Hebrew alphabet is Heh, which originally looked like an ‘H’, representing a man with his hand held up or an open window. The letter symbolized, behold or revealed. It suggests a breeze, wind, or spirit.
If this letter is placed in the middle of a word, it portrays the heart or essence revealed.
The Hebrew word Ahav, comes from the word picture which suggests, ‘the Heart of the Father revealed‘, which happens to be the Hebrew word for ‘Love’. I would like to reveal the Heart of the Father. And wouldn’t you agree that Jesus is, at least, an expression of the Father’s love toward mankind?
In my opinion, one cannot understand how God IS until one understands how man is, and one cannot understand how man is until one understands some of the basic laws of the spirit world.
The one being that the spirit world rules as God rules. The laws of the spirit world and the spirits themselves rule the natural world. That implies that the way thing are in the spirit world is the way things are or will be soon in the natural world. This also applies to a person with a spirit in them, other than their own. My wife says, that the clothes make the man. Truth is, the spirit makes the man. For as the spirit is, so is the man. For as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
Another being that all things start out small as a seed and God gives the increase or causes it to grow.
Another being that all offspring and seed produce after their own kind. That not only applies to the natural world but to the supernatural as well. Humans cannot mate with animals and make humanimals. We produce after our own kind. And if black mates with white and you get brown, then blacks ARE our kind! I, by-the-way, am white and my wife is brown, making my children naturally tanned.
Gen_1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. This is a spiritual law that affects both spirit and natural worlds. We all pretty much know how the natural world works but this is a spiritual law that operates in the spirit world as well. There are various kinds of living things and beings in the spirit world just like in the natural and they too produce after their own kind.
Mat_12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. And where is the seed of the tree but in the fruit.
When God made man, He made him to be like Him. That is, God not only made man to look like Him (image), in the flesh and spirit, but also to be made like Him, that is after His likeness, (One that resembles another; a copy; a counterpart) in spirit.
Psa_139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
So If we look at how man is made, we will see how God is made.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image [literally likeness] of him that created him:
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Simply put, the way God looks and is made up, is the way we look and are made up. So, how is man made?
Every Child of God should already know that we as human beings are more than just mind and natural body. When God made man, He made him flesh and spirit. The bible is very clear that without the spirit the natural body dies. Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
So when a child is conceived in the womb of a woman everyone sees the physical child but there is another two children growing within that child that no one can see. The bible however mentions three distinct spirits beings within each person. Each having a mind of its own, independent from the others yet each one affecting the other and operating as though they three were one, even as the natural body has many various kinds of cells, yet they all work in unison as one. Problem is that most people don’t know this nor do they recognize the voices of the other two. I said the other two because the soul is the life and the conscious part of you that uses the natural grey noodle in your cranium, that you hear from and recognize most.
Check it out for yourself. When a person is alive in the physical world, the soul can be hungry, sleepy, tired, …etc. and DIE. But, when a person is dead and in the spirit world, lo and behold, the soul is alive again and experiences everything it did when alive in the physical world. That is one reason why I said that it is the conscious part of you, yet it is clearly a spirit.
The heart and spirit are less discernable or recognizable concerning the things we hear, see, think, say, and do. I personally hear more than one voice, now that I recognize them. I also, at times, hear the voice of God.
I would like to talk a little about the three spirits within each of us, because most people don’t see it. Therefore don’t believe it.
The Soul uses the physical body and mind when awake and the heart, when asleep, hence the reason for seeing and hearing happenings in your dreams. Any time you have to give thought to what you are about to say or do, that is the soul.
 

know1

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Aug 27, 2012
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Any time thoughts or words that fly out of your mouth without thought concerning things that you already know &/or feel, this is of the heart. Things that you think, say, &/or do that you don’t know, is of your spirit or of the Spirit of God.
For example, one time I was looking at something and I said to or within myself, ‘that looks good’, yet at the same time I heard, ‘that’s perfect’. The latter came from my heart. When I pray in the spirit, or tongues, that is my spirit praying. Another time a woman said something to me, then laid her hand lightly on my chest, and immediately I heart, ‘you’ve just been tagged’. Another time I was driving down the highway and when I looked up at a sign, without knowing why I had to take the off ramp yet knowing that it was urgent, I swerved suddenly to get off the highway. When I was in the parking lot, I kept asking, ’why am I here?’. When I went into the store, I found out why God had me take that off ramp. Something I had been wanting to get my wife for more than a year, was right there, and only God would know that.
As I said, the bible mentioned three distinct beings within each person, the soul, heart, and spirit and if we are made after or like God, then God the Father has a heart too. I would like to focus on the heart as that is what Jesus concentrated on the most when dealing with people. Again, it may look like I’m going off course but as I said earlier, it will lead into the discussion.
Peter calls the heart, the hidden man,
1Pe 3:4 ButG235 let it be theG3588 hiddenG2927 manG444 of theG3588 heart,G2588 The word, ‘of’, is inferred, it is not in the original text. Thus, it should read, But let it be the hidden man, the heart.
Paul calls it the new or inward man.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Notice what the mind is associated with in the passages above but that of the inward man. That is the mind of the inward man. His inward man delights in the law of God and with the mind of the inward man he serves the law of God.
So you can see, hopefully, that there is another person within each of us called the heart/new/inward/hidden man/creation in every child of God, hence the conflict from within.
Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are [flow] the issues [or forces] of life. That is that the forces of life, or in the case of the christian, the power of God, flows or is released out of it. How is it released?
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess [or say] with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Therefore, speaking, saying, confessing…etc. verbally, and believing with your heart, with corresponding action or works is how the power of God is released.
When Jesus was on earth, He demonstrated how He created the world and all that is within, or on it. The power of God the father works thru the heart and before man was, the I AM was the heart that created all that now is. In other words, God the Father created all that is thru or by way of His Heart. And it is clear that Jesus created everything that is in existence.
Jesus is the word of God the Father, therefore the power of God and the power of God the Father flows thru, or by way of, the heart. Therefore, Jesus is the Heart of God the Father thru whom His power flows.
If we have a heart of flesh, then God the Father has a heart of flesh. Jesus, the bread of life IS the Heart of God the Father! The blood of Jesus IS the Holy Ghost!
So if we are made up of more than one person in this natural body, in spirit, then so is God the Father made up of more than one, for we are made like or after Him, we are a carbon copy of God the Father. Therefore God the Father has a soul [HIMSELF], a heart [JESUS], and a Spirit [HOLY GHOST].
In short, Jesus is the Truth, the Power, the Life, the Word, and the Heart of God the Father
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Jas_1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
God the Father is love, life, and light.
1Co_1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God [the Father], and the wisdom of God[the father] .
Look in the Old testament, and you will see that wisdom is in the heart of man. Therefore, the wisdom of God the Father is in His Heart.
Again, confirming that Jesus IS the Heart of the Father.
Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him [Christ Jesus].
And why would God say in, Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:, …if He were just one being. For the same reason why I am tell you that human beings are three separate beings and not one. And yet, me, myself, and I makeup and are one. And how many of you are still not convinced? Does anyone hear the voice of God? He is in you, if you are born again, causing you to both will and to do of His good pleasure. And yet, He is not you. The fact is that you are Christ in the flesh, when lead by His Spirit. For you eventually become the spirit that is in you. And where is His Spirit but in your heart, if you are born again.
THEREFORE JESUS IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS, TRUTH, POWER, LIFE, WORD, HEART, AND LIGHT OF GOD THE FATHER!
I’D SAY THAT QUALIFIES HIM AS GOD THE SON!!!
A SEPARATE BEING OF THE FATHER, YET ONE WITH THE FATHER, FOR HE SAID, ‘I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE‘.
Just like Me, myself, and I are three, yet make up and are one in unison.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,


Heh, I can understand. But if you understand how the Bible uses these terms, these pieces all fall into place. Agents of God take on similar titles to God because they are performing similar functions in behalf of God. Often times they're addressed as if they're God himself.

To see this clearly, first read Matthew 8:5-13 and picture the account in your mind. Then read Luke's parallel account at Luke 7:1-10 and see how your impression of events is altered. This is common in the Bible, especially for those sent forth by God (Jesus being chief among them).
HUH? I said I was cross-eyed not confused.
As it turns out I am instructed in Hebrew studies, I am aware the words Mal'ak, Yahweh and elohim mean angel/messenger, God and god and that in terms of grammar they are an object/thing, a person and a collective adjective. I am unclear regarding the purpose of the argument, or was it just squabbling over exegesis of the text?
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,

HUH? I said I was cross-eyed not confused.
As it turns out I am instructed in Hebrew studies, I am aware the words Mal'ak, Yahweh and elohim mean angel/messenger, God and god and that in terms of grammar they are an object/thing, a person and a collective adjective. I am unclear regarding the purpose of the argument, or was it just squabbling over exegesis of the text?
Judges 13:20-22 is an instance where a representative of God is called God himself. This has application then even to Jesus, who is one sent in behalf of God as his representative.
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hi know1,

I do appreciate your posts and I did read them; that's certainly a lot to take in all at once. Here's a simple question for you. Why do you think that God didn't simply have it written somewhere in the Bible, just once, that three persons make up the one God? Something direct and simple like that?

Do you use God's name, Jehovah?


Thank you.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Hi know1,

I do appreciate your posts and I did read them; that's certainly a lot to take in all at once. Here's a simple question for you. Why do you think that God didn't simply have it written somewhere in the Bible, just once, that three persons make up the one God? Something direct and simple like that?

Do you use God's name, Jehovah?


Thank you.
I'll get back with you in a minute. on the phone with wife
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,


Judges 13:20-22 is an instance where a representative of God is called God himself. This has application then even to Jesus, who is one sent in behalf of God as his representative.
what you say is absolutely FALSE.
The truth is...Jesus is the Son of God since the beginning of time, sent to man as a savior, conceived by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary. Jesus walked 33 years in the frailty of human flesh, ministered a short time of the coming of his Kingdom, being the salvation of man and was then crucified, whence he bore our sins. was laid in a grave, rose on the third day,revealed himself to his disciples and then rose to the Father in heaven, where he sits now at the right hand of God, ever making intercession for us.

I get that you don't get it but that is my final word.
 
S

soldierofchrist4ever24

Guest


In Jewish custom (and many more around the world) the "first born" was higher in rank, and would be the one to inherit the father's possessions.

The "first born of all creation" means, the highest in rank above all in heaven and in earth. It does not mean that he was made first, and then everyone else.

It is the same message Paul gives in Philippians:

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


The term is used to covey preeminence. In the same chapter Col we have the phrase he is the "firstborn of the dead".

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Do you think that he was the first to be raised from the dead? What about Lazarus, and all the others we read of?

Speaking of David:
89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
Psa 89:21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
Psa 89:22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
Psa 89:23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
Psa 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Psa 89:25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
Psa 89:26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
Psa 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.


JW's usually say when verse 26 is bought out, if this is concerning Christ, why is he calling his Father God?

Then they say, "no this is David saying this".

So then lets point out 27. David is said to be made "my firstborn". If my firstborn means chronological order, then David could not have had any older brothers.

So then we see, their must be a misinterpretation of Col 1:15 on the JW side, because it leads to bizarre conclusions in the remote context.




Well done good sir, i tip my hat to you good day.
in Christ
brother Travis
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,


Judges 13:20-22 is an instance where a representative of God is called God himself. This has application then even to Jesus, who is one sent in behalf of God as his representative.
No it isn't! Your persistence is commendable but you are categorically WRONG
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,

Are you only willing to state your beliefs or are you willing to discuss them using scripture as a touchstone?
 
T

TJ12

Guest
Hello feedm3,

I know you're still hovering around this thread, since you keep 'liking' posts. If you're not done, how about an answer to my post to you? Here it is:

Regardless of that...interesting...recap of events, all of my points still stand. You can look up for yourself where Jesus utters the word and how. I've shown that in every instance in the New Testament when 'arche' is used in a sense of rank, it's always accompanied by terms relating to power and authority, terms which are not present in Revelation 3:14. Coincidence? This likely has much to do with the BDAG lexicon saying that it 'probably' means "first creature" in Revelation 3:14. I have also shown the connection between Revelation 3:14 and Proverbs 8:22, a connection almost universally recognized by the early church fathers.
Thanks!
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
Hi BarlyGurl,

Are you only willing to state your beliefs or are you willing to discuss them using scripture as a touchstone?
I am going to quote hopesprings
""Okay TJ...I'm done. Perhaps someone else on here is more qualified to debate with you...mighty is a qualifier used for God Almighty, and it is a qualifier used for Jesus. You are reasoning away the scriptrues, but I get that you don't see this...and your arguments do not really make sense...but I get that you don't see that either. Oh, and if you actually read Mark 10 you will see that Jesus didn't rebuke the people for calling him good..he simply asked WHY they were calling him good if only God is good...this is pretty straightfoward considering he then proceeded to answer the people. Just saying. Thanks for the conversation.""
go sit on the bench with him and shake my pom poms for Know1.... :p
 
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