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J
I think we should be interested in knowing what has happened in the past. I can work with this though, as I have thus far made 99 percent of my appeal to Scripture and scripture alone.
Yes it has.
No, the fact that it has been covered before does not settle it. The fact that scripture teaches it does settle it though. Many people just don't like the idea.
You are young, but it does not make you inferior. I am young, but it does not make me inferior.
Yes it has.
No, the fact that it has been covered before does not settle it. The fact that scripture teaches it does settle it though. Many people just don't like the idea.
You are young, but it does not make you inferior. I am young, but it does not make me inferior.
J
GOSH... I was thinking exactly that... man being a father a son and a husband... but you already wrote it!
There is a sort of trinity in our nature though.
We have a spirit, a soul, and a body. Each of things things makes up who we are here on earth. They are each distinct from each other though.
J
Jimmybriggs
My question was if i am going to acknowledge that the father, son and spirit are all godin what way should i go about that?
What i was refering to was when i said you fell on your own sward. What i meant was, if. I am to accknowledge God how should i do that? Whould i. See that god is. One and then only acknowledge one or should i understand that he is 3 in 1 and pray and belive in 3?
Yes fathe son and spirit are all referring to the same singulare being but i do not. Add afterword "BUT HES THREE"
You also said christians and JEWs agree that GOd is one, JEWS DO NOT embrace a trinity and they never have so coming into the new testiment that same. Thought should be consistant, this is the law and the greatest of all commandments mattew 22:38 why should i belive anything els?
My question was if i am going to acknowledge that the father, son and spirit are all godin what way should i go about that?
What i was refering to was when i said you fell on your own sward. What i meant was, if. I am to accknowledge God how should i do that? Whould i. See that god is. One and then only acknowledge one or should i understand that he is 3 in 1 and pray and belive in 3?
Yes fathe son and spirit are all referring to the same singulare being but i do not. Add afterword "BUT HES THREE"
You also said christians and JEWs agree that GOd is one, JEWS DO NOT embrace a trinity and they never have so coming into the new testiment that same. Thought should be consistant, this is the law and the greatest of all commandments mattew 22:38 why should i belive anything els?
J
John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Just one example.
Do you pray in the name of Jesus?
There is only one God. There are three distinct persons.
Do you have a body?
Do you have a soul?
Is the body the soul?
Modern Jews do not, you are correct. It was not my point that they believe in the Trinity. This is due to modern Jews have inherited the traditions of the pharisees and Sadducees.
In the Psalms though, we do see that David believed in a Trinity.
Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
He says there are two Lords. Does that make him a polytheist? No.
You should believe other things because scripture teaches them.
Also, how can you love something with all your heart, strength, mind, and soul, if you don't know them?
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Just one example.
Do you pray in the name of Jesus?
There is only one God. There are three distinct persons.
Do you have a body?
Do you have a soul?
Is the body the soul?
Modern Jews do not, you are correct. It was not my point that they believe in the Trinity. This is due to modern Jews have inherited the traditions of the pharisees and Sadducees.
In the Psalms though, we do see that David believed in a Trinity.
Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
He says there are two Lords. Does that make him a polytheist? No.
You should believe other things because scripture teaches them.
Also, how can you love something with all your heart, strength, mind, and soul, if you don't know them?
J
Not all who are of Israel are Israel.
Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
That's important to remember.
Additionally, not all things are the same in the NT as the OT.
Do you gather in a synagogue? Are you under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant? I would hope you would recognize that the New Covenant is a pretty radical change. I say that not as a Dispensationalist.
Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
That's important to remember.
Additionally, not all things are the same in the NT as the OT.
Do you gather in a synagogue? Are you under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant? I would hope you would recognize that the New Covenant is a pretty radical change. I say that not as a Dispensationalist.
J
Jimmybriggs
Psalm 110:1 is NOT speaking of a trinity if it where it would. Have said so that is adding scripture
QYou should believe other things because scripture teaches them.
the scrpture does not teach us to belive in "other things" it says the greatest commandment is hear O isriel the LORD our God is ONE lord therfore i belive it.
Also the tradition of the sadducees are based upon the law, DUET. 6:4 which gives zero indecation that god is a trinity again this is just a not scriptural infirrance.
And i dont know what you mean by loving something. Withoout knowing it?
Psalm 110:1 is NOT speaking of a trinity if it where it would. Have said so that is adding scripture
QYou should believe other things because scripture teaches them.
the scrpture does not teach us to belive in "other things" it says the greatest commandment is hear O isriel the LORD our God is ONE lord therfore i belive it.
Also the tradition of the sadducees are based upon the law, DUET. 6:4 which gives zero indecation that god is a trinity again this is just a not scriptural infirrance.
And i dont know what you mean by loving something. Withoout knowing it?
J
Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
Who does David say the Lord says "Sit at my right hand.." to?
The LORD says to my Lord
Scripture tells us to believe many things. You are denying that we should believe anything other than Matthew 28.
God is one Lord. Amen. No Trinitarian says there is more than one God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 is speaking to the fact that there is only one God. It does not address the number of persons.
Can you love someone you do not know?
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
Who does David say the Lord says "Sit at my right hand.." to?
The LORD says to my Lord
Scripture tells us to believe many things. You are denying that we should believe anything other than Matthew 28.
God is one Lord. Amen. No Trinitarian says there is more than one God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 is speaking to the fact that there is only one God. It does not address the number of persons.
Can you love someone you do not know?
J
Jimmybriggs
The law was a schoolmaster that is to lead Us to jesus galations 3:24 and that commandment was fulfilled in him the conccept of God is one certainely would not change in that regaured. Yes the feasts and the temples have but gods identification of himself to the world woud never change (malachi 3:6)
The law was a schoolmaster that is to lead Us to jesus galations 3:24 and that commandment was fulfilled in him the conccept of God is one certainely would not change in that regaured. Yes the feasts and the temples have but gods identification of himself to the world woud never change (malachi 3:6)
J
Jimmybriggs
The lord says to my lord, is a. Prophacy in psalms refering to the inheritence found in jesus again the old testement is there to affirm the new, in hebrews chapters 1 and 2 its evident that is what is going on
And the scripture in deautoronomy is my point exactely, one means one in all. Respects.
The lord says to my lord, is a. Prophacy in psalms refering to the inheritence found in jesus again the old testement is there to affirm the new, in hebrews chapters 1 and 2 its evident that is what is going on
And the scripture in deautoronomy is my point exactely, one means one in all. Respects.
J
The lord spoke to the lord, though, right?
Okay if one always means one numerically... could you please explain this?
Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Mark 10:8
and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.
This is a picture of a married couple I grabbed off of google images.
Are they one or are they two? Numerically speaking...
Okay if one always means one numerically... could you please explain this?
Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
Mark 10:8
and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.
This is a picture of a married couple I grabbed off of google images.
Are they one or are they two? Numerically speaking...
CMC, the word trinity does not appeNow ar in the Bible. but this does... John 10:30... I and my Father are one..... Now if God is to make me ONE with Him, we will have to share or be filled with the same spirit and soul... If my soul is different than God's, then we cannot be ONE, if my spirit is different then we cannot be ONE.
The reason Jesus and Father are ONE, is because they have the same Spirit (Holy Spirit) and the same soul! And when God makes us ONE IN HIM, we also are made of the same soul and Spirit like JEsus and Father...
In John 17 Jesus asks the Father to make us ONE IN HIM, and PERFECTLY ONE WITH EACHOTHER... and in Acts God made 5000 men ONE SOUL AND ONE SPIRIT! Acs 4: 4.... and the number of the men was about five thousand. .... and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
I hope this gives you clearity why there is no such thing a trinity... I f I am also ONE in God are we not then 4? And with this 500 MEN made ONE IN GOD AS JESUS IS IN GOD AND GOD IN JESUS, are they not 5003 now? Nope trinity would not work in God's eyes or plans, maybe that is why He NEver used the word TRINITY.....
The reason Jesus and Father are ONE, is because they have the same Spirit (Holy Spirit) and the same soul! And when God makes us ONE IN HIM, we also are made of the same soul and Spirit like JEsus and Father...
In John 17 Jesus asks the Father to make us ONE IN HIM, and PERFECTLY ONE WITH EACHOTHER... and in Acts God made 5000 men ONE SOUL AND ONE SPIRIT! Acs 4: 4.... and the number of the men was about five thousand. .... and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
I hope this gives you clearity why there is no such thing a trinity... I f I am also ONE in God are we not then 4? And with this 500 MEN made ONE IN GOD AS JESUS IS IN GOD AND GOD IN JESUS, are they not 5003 now? Nope trinity would not work in God's eyes or plans, maybe that is why He NEver used the word TRINITY.....
B
Exactly right. God is Spirit. Is the Father Spirit, the Son Spirit and the Holy Spirit Spirit equaling different Spirits?
No. Not three different Spirits, not three different persons BUT vessels manifesting the same Spirit - the fruit of the Spirit.
There is only One Spirit manifested as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. By One Spirit are we - Bride - baptised into One Body with Christ the Head. How else can we be One with Him? We must manifest that we are sons and daughters of God by Spirit.
God has His Spirit dwell in many people but the fulness is Christ Jesus. Don't let the flesh body confuse you. The Spirit within is God. The flesh body is now glorified body. The Spirit was promised to dwell in many members called Bride who are manifesting they are known by Him.
You cannot have eternal life unless you are in Christ because it is that eternal Spirit that gives eternal life.
The scriptures tie in perfectly and it is simple once revealed.
God (Spirit) is all three and that does not limit Him nor does it divide Him. He still is One Spirit.
No. Not three different Spirits, not three different persons BUT vessels manifesting the same Spirit - the fruit of the Spirit.
There is only One Spirit manifested as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. By One Spirit are we - Bride - baptised into One Body with Christ the Head. How else can we be One with Him? We must manifest that we are sons and daughters of God by Spirit.
God has His Spirit dwell in many people but the fulness is Christ Jesus. Don't let the flesh body confuse you. The Spirit within is God. The flesh body is now glorified body. The Spirit was promised to dwell in many members called Bride who are manifesting they are known by Him.
You cannot have eternal life unless you are in Christ because it is that eternal Spirit that gives eternal life.
The scriptures tie in perfectly and it is simple once revealed.
God (Spirit) is all three and that does not limit Him nor does it divide Him. He still is One Spirit.
Bea you can know this ONLY BECAUSE GOD SHOWED YOU HIS TRUTH. A blessed person you are. Praise God that HIS Truth will REMAIN even AFTER the world is gone!
Even the thief on the cross.... God gave him the wisdom to KNOW JESUS was the MESSAIH, and THAT saved him.... Jesus said everlasting life is... To know God and the One He sent! And that thief KNEW it!
Even the thief on the cross.... God gave him the wisdom to KNOW JESUS was the MESSAIH, and THAT saved him.... Jesus said everlasting life is... To know God and the One He sent! And that thief KNEW it!
C
I would like to thank everyone for there comments! This has been a very intense but satisfying discussion to read, as I was not to involved.
I will go ahead and throw in my final statement's.
I believe that God is numerically ONE. "Isaiah 44:6, 8, 24. Isaiah 45:6,21,22, Isaiah 46:9 Due 6:4"
I understand the trinity very well, and I disagree with it completely. I am not arguing that you believe in more then One God, because you have obviously found a way around that by defining "One" as one in will, purpose, and so on. But again He did not say any of thous things He Just SAID ONE.
I noticed that Jimmydiggs continuously referred to the Idea of the trinity as the same as a human marriage.
My only thoughts on that is God only refers to two things in the manner you are trying to imply. That is a man and a wife, And Jesus and the Church. Jesus never defined himself as someone that is in unity with The Father, and the Holy Ghost. Especially not in the format of a marriage. "The obvious meaning of this Scripture is that man and woman become “one unit” of two fleshly beings now called a family! This example illustrates that the word “one” in Scripture can mean a union or combination of two separate individuals—a compound unity."
I think basically ever questions asked, and ever scripture shown in a trinity perspective can simply be answered by recognizing the duel nature of Christ.
Jesus praying= Flesh crying out to the spirit, or a example.
Jesus not knowing things= The flesh being humbled "He humbled himself"
Galatians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead = If Paul was talking about a trinity why did he not refer to the holy ghost? Jesus is the only mediator between God and Man (This has to be talking about the flesh if Jesus is God) So this is basically saying Through Jesus the only way to God the Father, but the only difference shown is in roles, and humanity. Not persons. But this again was not a doctrinal statement recognizing 2 persons in the Godhead. This was simply a introduction.
This method of Just simply recognizing the man aspect of Jesus will basically answer ever question on the subject matter.
Feel free to ask questions to see If I can apply this method, and explain them. I think it's all within a understanding of who Jesus is.
I want to point out a couple things before I go on the offensive.
The strategy used in this debate has been completely overwhelming. For ever 1 question someone asks you reply with 7. This make's it impossible to keep up, so when we dont answer your question you simply ignore are previous statements and ask why we are not answering your questions.
I know it seam's like it but talking down to people does not express you are more intelligent. It expresses you cant make a solid point so you will attack the person individually to win. (which makes it obvious you are not seeking for truth you are complacent in your beliefs)
The people that have done these things know who they are, and if it continues I personally will ignore your post.
The only reason this is so long is to gain ground in the discussion. Sense you beat my questions 7 to 1.
So now I will ask my questions.
1 John 4:24 The Father is a spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:17 Jesus is a spirit. And the holy SPIRIT is a spirit. But 1 Corinthians 12:13, and Ephesians 4:4 say's there is only one spirit! Explain that pleas.
John 3:16, Hebrews 1:5-6 refers to Jesus as "begotten" which obviously means he has a beginning. So how can there be a eternal son-ship?
If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was his mother at that time? we Know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4)
If the Son is eternal and unchangeable how can his reign have a ending? (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16, Colossians 1:3, 2:2, 1 Thessalonians 3:11, James 1:27) likewise, We could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons! (Revelations 3:1, 5:5) So maybe there is 6?
There is only one throne in heaven right? (Revelation 4:2) We know Jesus sits on it (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8) Where do the Father, and the holy spirit sit?
Is Jesus in the Godhead? or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says it's in Jesus not Jesus is in it.
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father? (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit (Romans 8:11)?
Did the Trinity make the Old and New Covenants? We know the Lord (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34, Hebrews 8:7-13) If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, And Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17)
You see there are way to many problems!
So I will rest my case, Jesus is the fiscal manifestation of the invisible God. He is the Son of redemption. God clothed himself in flesh and became a man.
The Father is God's role as creator of man, he created us we refer to him as are Father. As did Jesus BECAUSE HE WAS CREATED. The holy spirit is only really referred to when God is doing something, So I would define it as his power, or God in action. All these three manifestations Of God are One in Deity.
God is one in every way you can dEefine one
. onEEEeE
I will go ahead and throw in my final statement's.
I believe that God is numerically ONE. "Isaiah 44:6, 8, 24. Isaiah 45:6,21,22, Isaiah 46:9 Due 6:4"
I understand the trinity very well, and I disagree with it completely. I am not arguing that you believe in more then One God, because you have obviously found a way around that by defining "One" as one in will, purpose, and so on. But again He did not say any of thous things He Just SAID ONE.
I noticed that Jimmydiggs continuously referred to the Idea of the trinity as the same as a human marriage.
My only thoughts on that is God only refers to two things in the manner you are trying to imply. That is a man and a wife, And Jesus and the Church. Jesus never defined himself as someone that is in unity with The Father, and the Holy Ghost. Especially not in the format of a marriage. "The obvious meaning of this Scripture is that man and woman become “one unit” of two fleshly beings now called a family! This example illustrates that the word “one” in Scripture can mean a union or combination of two separate individuals—a compound unity."
I think basically ever questions asked, and ever scripture shown in a trinity perspective can simply be answered by recognizing the duel nature of Christ.
Jesus praying= Flesh crying out to the spirit, or a example.
Jesus not knowing things= The flesh being humbled "He humbled himself"
Galatians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead = If Paul was talking about a trinity why did he not refer to the holy ghost? Jesus is the only mediator between God and Man (This has to be talking about the flesh if Jesus is God) So this is basically saying Through Jesus the only way to God the Father, but the only difference shown is in roles, and humanity. Not persons. But this again was not a doctrinal statement recognizing 2 persons in the Godhead. This was simply a introduction.
This method of Just simply recognizing the man aspect of Jesus will basically answer ever question on the subject matter.
Feel free to ask questions to see If I can apply this method, and explain them. I think it's all within a understanding of who Jesus is.
I want to point out a couple things before I go on the offensive.
The strategy used in this debate has been completely overwhelming. For ever 1 question someone asks you reply with 7. This make's it impossible to keep up, so when we dont answer your question you simply ignore are previous statements and ask why we are not answering your questions.
I know it seam's like it but talking down to people does not express you are more intelligent. It expresses you cant make a solid point so you will attack the person individually to win. (which makes it obvious you are not seeking for truth you are complacent in your beliefs)
The people that have done these things know who they are, and if it continues I personally will ignore your post.
The only reason this is so long is to gain ground in the discussion. Sense you beat my questions 7 to 1.
So now I will ask my questions.
1 John 4:24 The Father is a spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:17 Jesus is a spirit. And the holy SPIRIT is a spirit. But 1 Corinthians 12:13, and Ephesians 4:4 say's there is only one spirit! Explain that pleas.
John 3:16, Hebrews 1:5-6 refers to Jesus as "begotten" which obviously means he has a beginning. So how can there be a eternal son-ship?
If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was his mother at that time? we Know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4)
If the Son is eternal and unchangeable how can his reign have a ending? (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16, Colossians 1:3, 2:2, 1 Thessalonians 3:11, James 1:27) likewise, We could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons! (Revelations 3:1, 5:5) So maybe there is 6?
There is only one throne in heaven right? (Revelation 4:2) We know Jesus sits on it (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8) Where do the Father, and the holy spirit sit?
Is Jesus in the Godhead? or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says it's in Jesus not Jesus is in it.
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father? (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit (Romans 8:11)?
Did the Trinity make the Old and New Covenants? We know the Lord (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34, Hebrews 8:7-13) If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, And Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17)
You see there are way to many problems!
So I will rest my case, Jesus is the fiscal manifestation of the invisible God. He is the Son of redemption. God clothed himself in flesh and became a man.
The Father is God's role as creator of man, he created us we refer to him as are Father. As did Jesus BECAUSE HE WAS CREATED. The holy spirit is only really referred to when God is doing something, So I would define it as his power, or God in action. All these three manifestations Of God are One in Deity.
God is one in every way you can dEefine one
. onEEEeE