Trinity?

[jimmydiggs]

cmckey7127, I have class from 2-3:15 and then a 5 hour drive from Cape Girardeau to the Kansas City area, and likely much longer since I'll be going through St. Louis at 5pm. So I may not be able to respond to you fully until tomorrow..

Could you please demonstrate from the verses you think support your belief? For example, I have posted the verses and bolded the portions that I am making my points from.

 

[cmckey7127]

So I will rest my case, Jesus is the fiscal manifestation of the invisible God. He is the Son of redemption. God clothed himself in flesh and became a man.
The Father is God's role as creator of man, he created us we refer to him as are Father. As did Jesus BECAUSE HE WAS CREATED. The holy spirit is only really referred to when God is doing something, So I would define it as his power, or God in action. All these three manifestations Of God are One in Deity.
God is one in every way you can dEefine one

 

[jimmydiggs]

So I will rest my case, Jesus is the fiscal manifestation of the invisible God. He is the Son of redemption. God clothed himself in flesh and became a man.
The Father is God's role as creator of man, he created us we refer to him as are Father. As did Jesus BECAUSE HE WAS CREATED. The holy spirit is only really referred to when God is doing something, So I would define it as his power, or God in action. All these three manifestations Of God are One in Deity.
God is one in every way you can dEefine one

I'll take that as "No, I'd rather not demonstrate from the verses."

 

[cmckey7127]

I'll take that as "No, I'd rather not demonstrate from the verses."

That was part of my original message, about 2 post up. It just did not show up.
But I have demonstrated from scripture.
I'm unsure what you need past what I have already asked, and shown.
Pleas dont ignore my last post. Respond when possible.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Perhaps this can help. Each of us is motivated by God or another. We have a soul (motivated free will of the concience) and are created in the likeness of God. Our soul is a part of our spirit. God has a soul, just like us, but he's also a motivator. There is two right there, and then there is The Holy Spirit. We must be talking about God with no beginning or ending if we are talking about the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. These three were not created, but God is the creator. The holy earthen vesssel/flesh of God is Jesus, the same high priest that has always been there for us. The Holy Spirit was not given to Jesus by measure from the Father. The Word of God has no beginning, The Holy Spirit has no beginning, and the Father has no beginning. We also are lights in this world. To manifest Light (God) from us, first we need fuel/oil in our vessel, air, and flame. It's that simple. God is Light, and God told us this valuable information to understand Him at least a little bit. Jesus is the earthen vessel of God, and the Father is not the earthen vessel. The Holy Spirit without measure is also part of both of these vessels. Jesus showed us how to allow our soul to be motivated by God, and doing so He (God) motivated us to be motivated by God. As long as we choose with the motivated free will of our concience (soul) to be motivated by God, then we are continuously being filled with oil, and overflowing. If we are overflowing, then the world cannot pollute what is in us, cause it never is allowed in us. Both the earthen vessel of God and the vessel made of Light are God, just like we are one with God even now by the Spirit of God we are joined to. Think of it like holding hands. We hold The Right Hand with our left, and then we allow others to hold our Right Hand with their left. This is how we are one. The difference is that there is only one Right Hand of The Father, and we are adopted into the body of Christ.

 

[Disciple539]

The Bible describes the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the One True God in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament as the Spirit of Jesus Christ. There is no distinction between the two, for the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus are synonymous or the same Spirit. God uses the Holy Spirit to accomplish His great feats of creation, gives power to people to rule, and power of instruction and warning.
Nowhere in the Bible is the term "Spirit of God" or the "Spirit of Jesus Christ" called or classified as a "person" as claimed by the Trinitarians. God is a Spirit and His Spirit is a spirit. There is only one God in the Old Testament and Jesus is God in the flesh in the New Testament (John 1:1,14). God, The Spirit of God and Jesus Christ are the One and Only True God.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The Bible describes the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the One True God in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament as the Spirit of Jesus Christ. There is no distinction between the two, for the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus are synonymous or the same Spirit. God uses the Holy Spirit to accomplish His great feats of creation, gives power to people to rule, and power of instruction and warning.
Nowhere in the Bible is the term "Spirit of God" or the "Spirit of Jesus Christ" called or classified as a "person" as claimed by the Trinitarians. God is a Spirit and His Spirit is a spirit. There is only one God in the Old Testament and Jesus is God in the flesh in the New Testament (John 1:1,14). God, The Spirit of God and Jesus Christ are the One and Only True God.

Are you saying that Light does not come from three parts (oil/air/flame Word/Spirit/Father)?
Air is not oil, and oil is not flame.

 

[cmckey7127]

Are you saying that Light does not come from three parts (oil/air/flame Word/Spirit/Father)?
Air is not oil, and oil is not flame.

I don't see your point..
Yes I recognize that Jesus is not the same manifestation as the father, but He is the same God manifest in a different way.
But your point about light is nothing in comparison to the idea of God.

Oil/air/flame
Word/spirit/Father
I don't see how you are tying oil to Word, Air to spirit, flame to Father.
Actually if you are thinking in a trinity perspective you would think the holy ghost is Fire, not The father...

I think maybe if you clarify I might understand, but if you are saying what I think you are, your reasoning is invalid.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

So I will rest my case, Jesus is the fiscal manifestation of the invisible God. He is the Son of redemption. God clothed himself in flesh and became a man.
The Father is God's role as creator of man, he created us we refer to him as are Father. As did Jesus BECAUSE HE WAS CREATED. The holy spirit is only really referred to when God is doing something, So I would define it as his power, or God in action. All these three manifestations Of God are One in Deity.
God is one in every way you can dEefine one

It is desirable that Oneness Pentecostal heresy be rested so that it doesn't lead new believers into the error.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's nice to see that T.D. Jakes finally came to his senses somewhat. How ironic that the Oneness Pentecostals are now calling him a "heretic" for dropping their heresy and aligning with orthodoxy.

"Bishop T.D. Jakes says he has moved away from a 'Oneness' view of the Godhead to embrace an orthodox definition of the Trinity -- and that some in the Oneness Pentecostal movement now consider him a heretic."

Christianity Today Gleanings: T.D. Jakes Embraces Doctrine of the Trinity, Moves Away from 'Oneness' View

Note: Oneness Pentecostalism denies the Trinity and claims that instead of God being three persons, He is one person. In Oneness Pentecostalism, there is no distinction between the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It is also called modalism,' and is embraced by the United Pentecostal Church International.

"I began to realize that there are some things that could be said about the Father that could not be said about the Son," Jakes said. "There are distinctives between the working of the Holy Spirit and the moving of the Holy Spirit, and the working of the redemptive work of Christ. I'm very comfortable with that."

"Southern Baptist leaders applauded Jakes' transformation while also saying Jakes isn't fully where he should be on that and other issues [but he's finally growing in the right direction]."

 

[cmckey7127]

It is desirable that Oneness Pentecostal heresy be rested so that it doesn't lead new believers into the error.

Yes you get to define what is error, the scripture does not?
I have used scripture, If you actually want to say something like that, How about you go back up 3 or 4 post and answer my bible questions?
Let the bible speak for itself.
I don't care what man says.
Pleas use scripture to back your statement.
Thank you sir.

 

[cmckey7127]

It's nice to see that T.D. Jakes finally came to his senses somewhat. How ironic that the Oneness Pentecostals are now calling him a "heretic" for dropping their heresy and aligning with orthodoxy.

"Bishop T.D. Jakes says he has moved away from a 'Oneness' view of the Godhead to embrace an orthodox definition of the Trinity -- and that some in the Oneness Pentecostal movement now consider him a heretic."

Christianity Today Gleanings: T.D. Jakes Embraces Doctrine of the Trinity, Moves Away from 'Oneness' View

Note: Oneness Pentecostalism denies the Trinity and claims that instead of God being three persons, He is one person. In Oneness Pentecostalism, there is no distinction between the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. It is also called modalism,' and is embraced by the United Pentecostal Church International.

"I began to realize that there are some things that could be said about the Father that could not be said about the Son," Jakes said. "There are distinctives between the working of the Holy Spirit and the moving of the Holy Spirit, and the working of the redemptive work of Christ. I'm very comfortable with that."

Yes T.D Jake's denied the truth, and Now he is a big name preacher, making tons of money. What a shocker. Again I don't care what man say's pleas use scripture to prove your point.
I know ton's of x Trinitarians that now believe Oneness. By your criteria that proves oneness?

And I do recognize a difference between the Father, Son, and Holy spirit. But I will not give personal identity apart from each other to the individual role. Father of Creation, Then becomes a man (Son of redemption), Then is the comforter the Holy ghost.
You can not argue using bible anything I just said. I know you will try but what I said is biblicaly sound!

The Trinity has no ground to stand on. God is ONE not 3 then One. He is One and then One, and Then One.
You wont let God be what he say's he is because you cant understand the different roles God operates in?
Again by the critera you use to define the trinity you have to believe in 100's of persons in the God head! Because God call's himself so many things.

The Trinity is widely excepted error. "Narrow is the path that Lead's to Heaven, and FEW there be that find it."

Dont discount something you cant disprove.

 

[celestemekent]

I suspect that human understanding of the relationships between the triune Godhead is far less accurate than what God Himself knows and therefore far less than a total understanding of it all. Certainty is not within the human realm on this one. We all need to be humble on this one.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I've already discounted Oneness heresy after disproving it in lengthy debates on this forum. So now you've made two wrong assertions. The first is that Oneness heresy is true and the second is that I haven't disproven it. Note: The search feature is on the menu bar.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I don't see your point..
Yes I recognize that Jesus is not the same manifestation as the father, but He is the same God manifest in a different way.
But your point about light is nothing in comparison to the idea of God.

Oil/air/flame
Word/spirit/Father
I don't see how you are tying oil to Word, Air to spirit, flame to Father.
Actually if you are thinking in a trinity perspective you would think the holy ghost is Fire, not The father...

I think maybe if you clarify I might understand, but if you are saying what I think you are, your reasoning is invalid.

Jesus is Light. Light comes from the Word, Father, and Holy Spirit. Jesus is flame, air, and oil, just as the Holy Ghost is, and The Father. The Father is Light, the Holy Ghost is Light, and Jesus is Light. Either way you look at it, Light is not from air only, or fuel only, or spark/flame only. The three are one.
Remember the virgins that didn't have the oil? They had no Light. You cannot separate the three, they are what makes Light. Without air we could not ignite, and so air is a part of Light/Love. Without oil we cannot ignite, and so oil/fuel is a part of Light/Love. Without flame we cannot ignite, so flame is a part of Light/Love. We see the Father represented at the burning bush with Moses. The Father is not only flame, but fuel/the bush, and air. The Father is most commonly represented as fire, and for a reason. The Father is The Holy Ghost as well, but at the day of pentecost we don't see a bush, but we see the body of Christ and cloven tongues (partly representing The Word/oil in us). Jesus is not only oil, but that is the part of Light/Love which is magnified in Jesus for our own learning. The Holy Ghost is in us as well, and is represented by air/wind at Pentecost (a mighty rushing wind even). All three are Light, and all three are God. Even I am now considered a light by the power of God, only by measure. I am not God, but I have God, and am a light made by God. Jesus is not a light made by God, Jesus is Light, as is the Father and the Holy Ghost. Love is Light, and there are different ways to love and shine that Light.

It's easy when you think of it this way. The oil already exists, as does the flame, and the air. All we need is the oil in our earthen vessels to have all three, and then we have one Light. That is why there in none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. If we have no oil/Jesus, then we have no hope for having Light. If we have oil, then we have Light, cause The Father/flame draws to the oil/Son, and the oil/Son allows us access to the only air/Spirit that in combination can produce the one and only Light. God is one, that is for sure, and we have this treasure in earthen vessels/lamps. I can stare at a fire for a long time. When it's dark we see the light of that fire, and when we get closer we see the flame and fuel. When we try to start a fire, that is when we realize that it needs air to breathe. Sometimes I look at the burning fuel, and cry, because I'm reminded of the sacrifice God made for us.

 

[cmckey7127]

I've already discounted Oneness heresy after disproving it in lengthy debates on this forum. So now you've made two wrong assertions. The first is that Oneness heresy is true and the second is that I haven't disproven it. Note: The search feature is on the menu bar.

And I have disproved the trinity.
Do you believe me? lol

You may of won the debate but that proves nothing but that you outsmarted the guy you where debating.
But you cant actually disprove the oneness of God using scripture. I can disprove the "He's one but he's three, He's one but he's three, He's one but he's three" argument.
Logic disproves the Trinity.

If you are not willing to use bible, then pleas do not comment any longer thank you

 

[Jon4TheCross]

And I have disproved the trinity.
Do you believe me? lol

You may of won the debate but that proves nothing but that you outsmarted the guy you where debating.
But you cant actually disprove the oneness of God using scripture. I can disprove the "He's one but he's three, He's one but he's three, He's one but he's three" argument.
Logic disproves the Trinity.

If you are not willing to use bible, then pleas do not comment any longer thank you

"Logic" may disprove whatever "Trinity" means to a specific person, but there's no way around the fact that God is Light. Maybe instead of the word Trinity, we should use the word Light.

 

[cmckey7127]

"Logic" may disprove whatever "Trinity" means to a specific person, but there's no way around the fact that God is Light. Maybe instead of the word Trinity, we should use the word Light.

God is light, God is not a trinity!
And the chemical form of light does not define God.
He is light, means more then just what comes out of a light bulb or a fire.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Oneness heresy isn't hard to disprove. Those who hold to the heresy, like yourself, malign the same verses in the same way and make the same inaccurate historical assertions. Once the competency is gained to refute Oneness heresy, anyone holding to the heresy can be refuted. It is for this reason that you've just made you're third false assertion (e.g. that one who understands the doctrinal error in Oneness heresy cannot refute more than the one guy they debated or "outsmarted" as you say).

And I have disproved the trinity.
Do you believe me? lol

You may of won the debate but that proves nothing but that you outsmarted the guy you where debating.
But you cant actually disprove the oneness of God using scripture. I can disprove the "He's one but he's three, He's one but he's three, He's one but he's three" argument.
Logic disproves the Trinity.

If you are not willing to use bible, then pleas do not comment any longer thank you

 

[cmckey7127]

Oneness heresy isn't hard to disprove. Those who hold to the heresy, like yourself, malign the same verses in the same way and make the same inaccurate historical assertions. Once the competency is gained to refute Oneness heresy, anyone holding to the heresy can be refuted. It is for this reason that you've just made you're third false assertion (e.g. that one who understands the doctrinal error in Oneness heresy cannot refute more than the one guy they debated or "outsmarted" as you say).

For someone typing a lot, you're not saying much...
Again you have used no biblical answer's all you have done is continued to say what I'm saying is false.
I will no longer reply to you.
Sense you dont desire to use the bible.