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C
So me using scripture to make clear statements about God using Scriptures is a lot of nothing?
hmmm.. Strong1 I respect your opinion, but my disagreeing with it, is with good Reason.
Jimmy Diggs seam's like a good guy, but I had plenty of biblical reason's to disagree with him.
Early Today I made a post asking questions, And not one Person answered my Questions.
Answer my Questions.
Go back and reply.
I dont feel like playing "No you are!" "No you are!"
pleas answer the questions.
hmmm.. Strong1 I respect your opinion, but my disagreeing with it, is with good Reason.
Jimmy Diggs seam's like a good guy, but I had plenty of biblical reason's to disagree with him.
Early Today I made a post asking questions, And not one Person answered my Questions.
Answer my Questions.
Go back and reply.
I dont feel like playing "No you are!" "No you are!"
pleas answer the questions.
A
I'm not typing much at all truthfully. All I've done is make what is called in debate theory a "contention in argument' and then pointed out several logical misassertions that you've made.
I can understand how you wouldn't want to have a serious debate regarding Oneness heresy; however, against those with the theological training to refute it as your arguments for the heresy would only be refuted.
I can understand how you wouldn't want to have a serious debate regarding Oneness heresy; however, against those with the theological training to refute it as your arguments for the heresy would only be refuted.
S
Okay, speak to the bold lettering in these scriptures, and explain how, it does not prove seperate "Personalities" within the Godhead........I did not just find these scriptures, Jimmy posted them yesterday. Break it down for us, the Bold lettering, that is.
Oh! and why have you not responded to the Baptism of Jesus, where all three personalities present themselves at one place?
Galatians 4:4-7
4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[a] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.
John 17:3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Ephesians 1:17
17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
John 8:16
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.
Oh! and why have you not responded to the Baptism of Jesus, where all three personalities present themselves at one place?
Galatians 4:4-7
4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[a] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.
John 17:3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Ephesians 1:17
17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
John 8:16
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.
C
I would love to have a logical debate. Actually the whole time Ive been asking you to use scripture.
So pleas sir, enlighten me.
Truly I would love to be shown the error in my beliefs!
Ive been studying and debating this for several years now, I doubt you could disprove me any more then anyone else I know.
Very few Oneness convert to trinity, many trinity convert to oneness.
So Pleas if I am wrong prove to me that God is only One. But also three.
So pleas sir, enlighten me.
Truly I would love to be shown the error in my beliefs!
Ive been studying and debating this for several years now, I doubt you could disprove me any more then anyone else I know.
Very few Oneness convert to trinity, many trinity convert to oneness.
So Pleas if I am wrong prove to me that God is only One. But also three.
C
Now Strong1 these are legitimate questions. Thank you for asking them, although you ignored my request to answer my previous question's I will answer yours.
This is a quote. It's a lot of stuff to type so I'm using a fellow believer's point for this question only. "
Jesus, the dove, and the voice from heaven do not represent the Trinity as some see this Scripture. The purpose of the dove was that it symbolized the Holy Ghost. It must have been symbolic because the Holy Ghost is not a bird! The appearance of the dove was for John's sake only.
The voice is never said to the be the voice of God. It is thought to be the voice of God because of the voice's reference to Jesus as "my beloved Son." Since it is God who is said to be Jesus' Father throughout the New Testament it is concluded that this had to be God speaking here. The Scripture says that Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost, thereby making Him Jesus' Father, so why could the voice not have been the Holy Ghost's (Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:35)? Was the Holy Ghost Jesus' Father, or was it God? Although I believe it was God who spoke, I am making this point to show the foolishness of trying to find all three members of a trinity here. This is a problem one will run into when trying to use this passage to split up the Godhead into members; however, when one understands that God is one, and that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are manifestations of this one God to man, passages like this are easily understood."
God sending his Son (The mediator) does not trouble me at all. I think you have a misunderstanding of the Oneness. as I said before I recognize the differences between the Father, Son, And Holy spirit. I just do not give personality to them. Because I look at the bible according to the Shama "The Lord your God is One Lord" Jesus as we understand was fully man and fully God. The perfect man that died saved us from are sin's. It had to be the man because God himself can not die. Jesus is the Son of God, because God placed his seed in marry and she conceived him. But I simply believe the Same God that created the Man (Flesh) indwelled him. Colossians 2:9 So Jesus in the Flesh was a man (He was tempted, God can not be) But he was indwelled by the same spirit that created him. God sent the man Jesus. "God was manifest in the flesh"
Again the same criteria can be applied to this scripture. The only True GOD, and Jesus Christ. I thought God refers to the Trinity? which includes Jesus Christ?
Obviously this is referring to Jesus as a man, Not as his role as the fullness of God. If not there are 2 Son's. You cant just decide what Person it's referring to When it say's "GOD"
Wait here Just a Second! Jesus the 2nd Pearson of the trinity has a God? I thought they are coequal? So if Jesus has a God, and he is a God does that make 2 God's? No obviously this is reffering to the man (or flesh)
Again I am able to apply the same criteria as before. Jesus as a man stand's with the Father. You can't ignore the Flesh of Jesus! That's why the trinity was created.
This is a quote. It's a lot of stuff to type so I'm using a fellow believer's point for this question only. "
And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
It was "He that sent" John to baptize which gave Him a personal sign wherewith he could identify the Messiah for whom he prepared the way. This sign was that the Spirit of the Lord would descend and abide upon Him. God did not tell John that it would appear in the form of a dove, but that was the way it ended up happening. God had to make His Spirit visible in some way because He is invisible. If He did not appear in some type of visible form John would have had no way of seeing Him descend upon the Messiah. The appearance of the dove was only for John's sake so that He could finally know the identity of the One he had been preparing the way for. Once the Messiah was manifest to Israel, John's ministry was close to completion (John 3:30). In defense that John alone saw the dove, it can be argued that if others would have seen the dove there would have been no reason for John to relate the story to them as he did (John 1:29-36). After John saw the dove, he was able to boldly proclaim of Jesus, "Behold the Lamb of God!" (John 1:36)
Jesus, the dove, and the voice from heaven do not represent the Trinity as some see this Scripture. The purpose of the dove was that it symbolized the Holy Ghost. It must have been symbolic because the Holy Ghost is not a bird! The appearance of the dove was for John's sake only.
The voice is never said to the be the voice of God. It is thought to be the voice of God because of the voice's reference to Jesus as "my beloved Son." Since it is God who is said to be Jesus' Father throughout the New Testament it is concluded that this had to be God speaking here. The Scripture says that Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost, thereby making Him Jesus' Father, so why could the voice not have been the Holy Ghost's (Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:35)? Was the Holy Ghost Jesus' Father, or was it God? Although I believe it was God who spoke, I am making this point to show the foolishness of trying to find all three members of a trinity here. This is a problem one will run into when trying to use this passage to split up the Godhead into members; however, when one understands that God is one, and that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are manifestations of this one God to man, passages like this are easily understood."
God sending his Son (The mediator) does not trouble me at all. I think you have a misunderstanding of the Oneness. as I said before I recognize the differences between the Father, Son, And Holy spirit. I just do not give personality to them. Because I look at the bible according to the Shama "The Lord your God is One Lord" Jesus as we understand was fully man and fully God. The perfect man that died saved us from are sin's. It had to be the man because God himself can not die. Jesus is the Son of God, because God placed his seed in marry and she conceived him. But I simply believe the Same God that created the Man (Flesh) indwelled him. Colossians 2:9 So Jesus in the Flesh was a man (He was tempted, God can not be) But he was indwelled by the same spirit that created him. God sent the man Jesus. "God was manifest in the flesh"
Again the same criteria can be applied to this scripture. The only True GOD, and Jesus Christ. I thought God refers to the Trinity? which includes Jesus Christ?
Obviously this is referring to Jesus as a man, Not as his role as the fullness of God. If not there are 2 Son's. You cant just decide what Person it's referring to When it say's "GOD"
Wait here Just a Second! Jesus the 2nd Pearson of the trinity has a God? I thought they are coequal? So if Jesus has a God, and he is a God does that make 2 God's? No obviously this is reffering to the man (or flesh)
Again I am able to apply the same criteria as before. Jesus as a man stand's with the Father. You can't ignore the Flesh of Jesus! That's why the trinity was created.
S
I came back to see if you responded.......great.
Anyways my friend, it looks like we will agree to disagree.
No matter what scriptures are left here, it will always come back to interpretation. I know my interpretation is right, because this is the truth that the Holy Spirit has given me. I can only speak for myself, though.
Does any of this matter in a grander scheme of things? What I mean is, will either interpretation affect the outcome of our eternal destiny? I only know what I believe, and that's between myself and God.
Anyways, It was interesting reasoning with you, I'll find you in other forums I'm sure.
Anyways my friend, it looks like we will agree to disagree.
No matter what scriptures are left here, it will always come back to interpretation. I know my interpretation is right, because this is the truth that the Holy Spirit has given me. I can only speak for myself, though.
Does any of this matter in a grander scheme of things? What I mean is, will either interpretation affect the outcome of our eternal destiny? I only know what I believe, and that's between myself and God.
Anyways, It was interesting reasoning with you, I'll find you in other forums I'm sure.
C
I came back to see if you responded.......great.
Anyways my friend, it looks like we will agree to disagree.
No matter what scriptures are left here, it will always come back to interpretation. I know my interpretation is right, because this is the truth that the Holy Spirit has given me. I can only speak for myself, though.
Does any of this matter in a grander scheme of things? What I mean is, will either interpretation affect the outcome of our eternal destiny? I only know what I believe, and that's between myself and God.
Anyways, It was interesting reasoning with you, I'll find you in other forums I'm sure.
Anyways my friend, it looks like we will agree to disagree.
No matter what scriptures are left here, it will always come back to interpretation. I know my interpretation is right, because this is the truth that the Holy Spirit has given me. I can only speak for myself, though.
Does any of this matter in a grander scheme of things? What I mean is, will either interpretation affect the outcome of our eternal destiny? I only know what I believe, and that's between myself and God.
Anyways, It was interesting reasoning with you, I'll find you in other forums I'm sure.
I truly enjoyed discussing it.
I also believe the Lord revealed this to me also. It seam's to be very plain in scripture.
Not that I don't understand where you are coming from.
Yes my next post will be on salvation, So it should be fun.
"If the Gospel is hid it is hid to them that are lost."
So some things in scripture are foolishness to people that are lost.
I think it could have something to do with the belife on the Godhead.
I'm not implying what you think lol..
But I would love to have you as a part of it.
I believe, that because we both believe Jesus is the only way. We are both Christians and on are way to Heaven.
L
John 17:21-22 (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jesus is here praying for His people to be one in the same way that the Father and Son are one. Now if God is one in the singular then He is praying for His people to be one in the singular But, we know He is praying for His people to be united as one so therefore that means that God while 3 is united as one.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jesus is here praying for His people to be one in the same way that the Father and Son are one. Now if God is one in the singular then He is praying for His people to be one in the singular But, we know He is praying for His people to be united as one so therefore that means that God while 3 is united as one.
C
Elohim is translated into English as God.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"
To the Jews and early Christians, the name "God" meant a single Deity. To explain this God, Jews believed He was uncreated, He was eternal. He was a Divine Holy Spirit. He possessed a spiritual body form like that of man. He is self existent. He is all knowing. He possesses all power in heaven and upon earth. He is the creator of all existing things including man. He was a singular Deity that proved his Being behind the veil and in the holy of hollies. This God is the focus of the Shema:
"Hear O Israel, the LORD our GOD is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4).
In the original Hebrew this was written:
"Hear O Israel, the ADONAI our ELOHIM is one ADONAI." (Note, some translations substitute YHVH for ADONAI which appears to be an interpolation into the text after the Babylonian captivity). We know God is called Adonai because Abraham called God this in Genesis 18:3. To speak of the Lord or God of Abraham was to speak of this same ADONAI and ELOHIM).
This is additionally supported by the first Commandment:
"Thou shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3).
"Thou shall have no other elohim before me."
It is understood clearly, that when Moses wrote other "gods" as "elohim", he was not and did not mean each of these gods was a trinity or that they consisted of three personalities. This is a fact no Trinitarian has ever refuted. Elohim then does not and will never mean the true God is a multiplicity of Divine Beings as falsely claimed by Rome, Protestants, and other Trinitarian groups.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"
To the Jews and early Christians, the name "God" meant a single Deity. To explain this God, Jews believed He was uncreated, He was eternal. He was a Divine Holy Spirit. He possessed a spiritual body form like that of man. He is self existent. He is all knowing. He possesses all power in heaven and upon earth. He is the creator of all existing things including man. He was a singular Deity that proved his Being behind the veil and in the holy of hollies. This God is the focus of the Shema:
"Hear O Israel, the LORD our GOD is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4).
In the original Hebrew this was written:
"Hear O Israel, the ADONAI our ELOHIM is one ADONAI." (Note, some translations substitute YHVH for ADONAI which appears to be an interpolation into the text after the Babylonian captivity). We know God is called Adonai because Abraham called God this in Genesis 18:3. To speak of the Lord or God of Abraham was to speak of this same ADONAI and ELOHIM).
This is additionally supported by the first Commandment:
"Thou shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3).
"Thou shall have no other elohim before me."
It is understood clearly, that when Moses wrote other "gods" as "elohim", he was not and did not mean each of these gods was a trinity or that they consisted of three personalities. This is a fact no Trinitarian has ever refuted. Elohim then does not and will never mean the true God is a multiplicity of Divine Beings as falsely claimed by Rome, Protestants, and other Trinitarian groups.
C
Jesus was a man. Indwelled with God! Fully man fully God.
When Jesus left, We where then able to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Making us like Jesus.
Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, He was one With God because God indwelled him!
Now we are indwelled with God manifest as (Holy spirit) thus for filling his prayer.
When Jesus left, We where then able to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Making us like Jesus.
Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, He was one With God because God indwelled him!
Now we are indwelled with God manifest as (Holy spirit) thus for filling his prayer.
S
I really want to get in on this discussion, but i have to move away from the computer for a bit............I'll leave something to ponder..........When the bible speaks of marriage, and "two becoming one"....how does that work?
I'll be back.
I'll be back.
I don't understand it either, but I have my own theory. "Let us make him in -our- image" according to Genesis. If we are made in God's image, and He was referred to in the plural, then how does that work? We are composed of 3 parts as human beings. Mind (brain, thoughts), body (our physical bodies), and spirit (self-awareness, soul). In essence, we are 3 parts, that when combined, make one person. I think God may have a similar composition. God the father (mind), God the Son (body), and the Holy Spirit (spirit). Together they are one. This could be completely wrong, but it makes perfect sense to me. It's how I come to grips with the Trinity doctrine. Like most here, it was something I grew up learning. I have been making notes on where God shows up in the bible, and in what form, recording the passages where He is mentioned, but I haven't got very far in my study yet.
Also, in Matthew 3, when Jesus is baptized, you have the 3 parts of God present at once. The Spirit descends on the Body and the Mind speaks.
Also, in Matthew 3, when Jesus is baptized, you have the 3 parts of God present at once. The Spirit descends on the Body and the Mind speaks.