6 Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Bowman]

I've explained this indepth previously. Jesus is "the firstborn of creation". This means he is a creature, a part of creation, and by the primary definition of the word and necessitated by the context, he was the first creature temporally.

Let’s review Rev 3.14…


και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou

Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:



Concentrating on what you had highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.

First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.




και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.

This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed after the formula.

This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.

The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.

Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.

Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

Jesus is God.

All things came into being through Jesus.

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…




Peter to the Jews


ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).

 

[Bowman]

I've explained this indepth previously. Jesus is "the firstborn of creation". This means he is a creature, a part of creation, and by the primary definition of the word and necessitated by the context, he was the first creature temporally.

Your unitarian mindset cannot distinguish between Jesus’ deity and His humanity.

You will not find a Biblical verse which informs the reader that Jesus’ deity was ever created. However, you will find verses which tell us that His humanity was created.

Here is a classic Biblical example which mandates that Jesus’ divinity was not of the created order…



λεγοντες φωνη μεγαλη αξιον εστιν το αρνιον το εσφαγμενον λαβειν την δυναμιν και πλουτον και σοφιαν και ισχυν και τιμην και δοξαν και ευλογιαν και παν κτισμα ο εν τω ουρανω και επι της γης και υποκατω της γης και επι της θαλασσης [εστιν] και τα εν αυτοις παντα ηκουσα λεγοντας τω καθημενω επι του θρονου και τω αρνιω η ευλογια και η τιμη και η δοξα και το κρατος εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων

legontes phōnē megalē axion estin to arnion to esphagmenon labein tēn dynamin kai plouton kai sophian kai ischyn kai timēn kai doxan kai eulogian kai pan ktisma ho en tō ouranō kai epi tēs gēs kai hypokatō tēs gēs kai epi tēs thalassēs kai ta en autois panta ēkousa legontas tō kathēmenō epi tō thronō kai tō arniō hē eulogia kai hē timē kai hē doxa kai to kratos eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn

Saying with a great voice, Worthy is the Lamb having been slain to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing. And every created thing in Heaven, and upon the earth, and underneath the earth, and upon the sea, and the things in all of them, I heard saying: To Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the power forever and ever. Rev 5.12 - 13



These verses clearly show the separation between created things ‘ktisma’ and Jesus’ divinity.

All ‘pan’ created things ‘ktisma’ in Heaven, on earth, under the earth, and upon the sea, and all things in them – thus, all created things in God’s creation, are shown to worship Jesus as God.


Clearly, Jesus is not part of any creation here, as this verse imparts to the reader that Jesus is divine – He is to be worshiped by the creation.

Jesus is to be worshiped as the ‘One’ upon the Throne.

But, who is the ‘One’ upon the Throne?

Revelation tells us that The Father sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21); that Jesus sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21; 7.17; 22.1 - 3), & that Theos sits upon the Throne (Rev 7.10 – 11; 7.15; 12.15; 14.5; 19.4; 22.1 - 3).

This is the Trinity.

Jesus is worshiped as the ‘One’ Triune God upon the Throne.


How do scriptures such as these fit with your world-view?

 

[TJ12]

Hello Bowman,

Thank you for your response(s).

With regards to the introduction to Revelation, you wrote:

What happen to the two that you directed our attention towards?

They're still two individuals. Only one is called the Almighty (verse 8).

With regard to my example in 1 Timothy 5:21, you wrote:

Theos and Jesus are not separated with the Greek article like the angels are in this verse.

And what do you think this proves exactly? Take a look at Revelation 1:4-5 again, the passage where you said above that one "can plainly see the Trinity expressed here." There we have a singular article with God ('the one who is, and who was, and who is coming'), a plural article with "seven spirits", and then no article with "Jesus Christ"--the exact same situation as found in 1 Timothy 5:21.

But if the article is what's hanging you up, let's go elsewhere. Luke 9:26 says, "Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." The Trinity! No? All three have their own article attached, just as the Father, Son, and holy spirit each have their own article at Matthew 28:19.

Or how about Matthew 24:36, which says, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." All three again have the Greek article.

Let’s review Rev 3.14…
...
Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

That's nonsense. Show me one instance, just one, where 'arche' ever means "origin/active cause" in the Bible. The BDAG lexicon doesn't seem to agree with you that it "mandates" any such thing, given that it admits "the mng. beginning=first created is linguistically probable."

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…
...
The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)

The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, by Cleon Rogers Jr. and Cleon Rogers III, says this of your evidence: "It may mean Prince, equivalent to [Heb. nasi'], and portray Jesus as the fulfillment of the Davidic hope."

Your unitarian mindset cannot distinguish between Jesus’ deity and His humanity.

Well, to be clear, my mindset is the mindset that one should bring to the Bible. In all of the human experience, we never find someone/something that has two mutually-exclusive natures at the same time, being somehow 100% of both. In fact, this is a logical absurdity, but simply yet another mystery of the Trinity doctrine. So if one is to accept such a teaching on scriptural grounds alone, the text aught to be explicitly teaching this, not merely 'hinting' at it and requiring one to already believe what is a logical absurdity in order to discern these 'hints'. Otherwise, if you're not bound by logic and reason, you could literally make up any doctrine you want and lean upon the 'mystery' excuse anywhere it doesn't make sense!

This is exactly why I've been asking those here to explain what makes their belief falsifiable (what could be said to prove it false?). Jesus could have said the following:

"Now seriously guys, this is absolutely the truth of truths, I am not God."

And you'd be here saying, 'Well of course not, that's Jesus speaking in his human nature, which is not God. In his divine nature Jesus is God, however."

And thus, when you're not bound by logic, you can make the text say anything you want by arbitrarily switching between which Jesus you choose to interpret in any given situation. At John 20:28, you'd likely say that that's Jesus in his divine nature...just because.

You will not find a Biblical verse which informs the reader that Jesus’ deity was ever created. However, you will find verses which tell us that His humanity was created.

That sounds an awful lot like Athanasius' explanation of Proverbs 8:22 from back in the fourth century. I notice that explanation isn't used much these days.

Here is a classic Biblical example which mandates that Jesus’ divinity was not of the created order…
...
Saying with a great voice, Worthy is the Lamb having been slain to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing. And every created thing in Heaven, and upon the earth, and underneath the earth, and upon the sea, and the things in all of them, I heard saying: To Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the power forever and ever. Rev 5.12 - 13


These verses clearly show the separation between created things ‘ktisma’ and Jesus’ divinity.

All ‘pan’ created things ‘ktisma’ in Heaven, on earth, under the earth, and upon the sea, and all things in them – thus, all created things in God’s creation, are shown to worship Jesus as God.

You are mistaken, and this is relatively easy to demonstrate:

"And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king." (1 Chronicles 29:20; KJV)

Was David not himself part of Israel, the congregation that worshipped himself and God?

"And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?" (Luke 13:2)

Because Jesus 'separates' the two, according to your logic, Jesus doesn't believe that "these Galilaeans" are Galilaeans, right?

Revelation tells us that The Father sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21); that Jesus sits upon the Throne (Rev 3.21; 7.17; 22.1 - 3), & that Theos sits upon the Throne (Rev 7.10 – 11; 7.15; 12.15; 14.5; 19.4; 22.1 - 3).

This is the Trinity.

I guess you better make some more room in your Trinity...look at your own evidence! Revelation 3:21 says:

"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."

How do scriptures such as these fit with your world-view?

Quite well, actually.


Thank you again for your reply.

 

[Bowman]

Hello Bowman,

Thank you for your response(s).

With regards to the introduction to Revelation, you wrote:
They're still two individuals. Only one is called the Almighty (verse 8).

Hi TJ,

Thanks for responding, as well…

As seen by the text, and as already stated, there are not two ‘individuals’ but three, as thus…

Rev 1.4 – 6

John to the seven assemblies in Asia: Grace to you, and peace, from the One who is, and who was, and who is coming, and from the seven spirits which are before His throne; even from Jesus Christthe Faithful Witness, the First-born out of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him loving us and washing us from our sins by His blood, and made us kings and priests to God, even His Father. To Him is the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen.


We can see the clear, three-fold greeting as delineated by the Greek preposition ‘opo’, from.

Father, Son, Spirit.

That each is God is declared by the ‘grace’ favor upon man as bestowed via the three-fold greeting from ‘opo’ each.

Further, you seem to be hung-up on the term ‘Almighty’… of which, is applied to the Son in Rev Chapter 4.

 

[Bowman]

With regard to my example in 1 Timothy 5:21, you wrote:

And what do you think this proves exactly? Take a look at Revelation 1:4-5 again, the passage where you said above that one "can plainly see the Trinity expressed here." There we have a singular article with God ('the one who is, and who was, and who is coming'), a plural article with "seven spirits", and then no article with "Jesus Christ"--the exact same situation as found in 1 Timothy 5:21.

Not the same situation at all, brother.

In fact, it is the exact opposite.

First of all, where do you see the word ‘God’ in Rev 1.4?

Secondly, there is not one singular article, but three separating the Spirit.

In your 1 Tim 5.21 example, God and Jesus are not separated with the article; however the angels are separated with the article, grouping God and Jesus separately from the angels. Further, your example is not even of the same construct.

But if the article is what's hanging you up, let's go elsewhere. Luke 9:26 says, "Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." The Trinity! No?

No.

Not the Trinity…why would it be?

Are you sure that you are comprehending the article, brother?

All three have their own article attached, just as the Father, Son, and holy spirit each have their own article at Matthew 28:19.

Of course, demonstrating that the Father is not the Son is not the Spirit. However, you conveniently forgot to mention that while they are not each other, they have the same singular name (onoma)….i.e. they are each the One God!

This is the Trinity, brother.

You just owned yourself royally on this verse; hand-picked by yourself.

Study it and learn it.

Or how about Matthew 24:36, which says, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even

the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." All three again have the Greek article.

And?

Are they supposed to be each other in the first place?

Seems you have your logic reversed, brother…

 

[Bowman]

That's nonsense. Show me one instance, just one, where 'arche' ever means "origin/active cause" in the Bible. The BDAG lexicon doesn't seem to agree with you that it "mandates" any such thing, given that it admits "the mng. beginning=first created is linguistically probable."

G746
ἀρχή
archē
Thayer Definition:
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G756
Citing in TDNT: 1:479, 81

 

[Bowman]

The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, by Cleon Rogers Jr. and Cleon Rogers III, says this of your evidence: "It may mean Prince, equivalent to [Heb. nasi'], and portray Jesus as the fulfillment of the Davidic hope."

The word in question is derived from G746, as shown to you in the previous post.

Study up...

 

[Bowman]

Well, to be clear, my mindset is the mindset that one should bring to the Bible. In all of the human experience, we never find someone/something that has two mutually-exclusive natures at the same time, being somehow 100% of both. In fact, this is a logical absurdity, but simply yet another mystery of the Trinity doctrine. So if one is to accept such a teaching on scriptural grounds alone, the text aught to be explicitly teaching this, not merely 'hinting' at it and requiring one to already believe what is a logical absurdity in order to discern these 'hints'. Otherwise, if you're not bound by logic and reason, you could literally make up any doctrine you want and lean upon the 'mystery' excuse anywhere it doesn't make sense!

Even in the plain English of your NWT, you can easily see the Trinity proclaimed.

Furthermore, it’s painfully clear that you can’t be bothered with the study of scripture in the original languages…yes?

If you practiced proper exegesis, then you would not be so confused.

This is exactly why I've been asking those here to explain what makes their belief falsifiable (what could be said to prove it false?). Jesus could have said the following:

"Now seriously guys, this is absolutely the truth of truths, I am not God."

And you'd be here saying, 'Well of course not, that's Jesus speaking in his human nature, which is not God. In his divine nature Jesus is God, however."

If you want to test its falsifiable-ness then go ahead and pick any verse from the Holy Bible which you somehow feel thwarts the Trinity, and detail to us why you think that it does.

You already hand-picked scripture demonstrating the Trinity.

Good luck on that one…

 

[Bowman]

"And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king." (1 Chronicles 29:20; KJV)

Was David not himself part of Israel, the congregation that worshipped himself and God?

Not only can you not address Rev chapter 5, but you produce a new indefensible scriptural example of your own.


Observe your error…


1 Chron 29.20

And David said to all the congregation, Now bless Yahweh your God. And all the congregation blessed Yahweh, the God of their fathers, and worshiped Yahweh, and bowed to the king. And they sacrificed sacrifices to Yahweh, and offered burnt offerings to Yahweh, on the next day after that day: a thousand bulls, a thousand rams, a thousand lambs, with their drink offerings, and sacrifices in great plenty for all Israel.


See the difference in worship here, brother?

Only Yahweh received the worship and blessing and animal sacrifices.

What about David?

Oh yeah…he was bowed to.

 

[Bowman]

I guess you better make some more room in your Trinity...look at your own evidence! Revelation 3:21 says:

"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."

And?

That Jesus' Elect will occupy the Throne is well known in scripture...this does not indicate that the Elect are to be worshipped, as they will be worshipping the Triune God seated upon the Throne.

 

[Bea22]

Both are wrong.

God is One Spirit and that's why JW's and Trinitarians cannot see the distinction. Not deny the deity of Christ and not three persons that are not each other. He can manifest Himself in the fulness in Christ Jesus - the form - and in many members of One Body - Bride.

Where exactly is the Holy Spirit NOW and in future? He is found with and in His people. That's why in Rev 22 the Spirit and the Bride say come. It is the Spirit IN the Bride saying Come. Does that make Her God or part of the Godhead? No. But She is part of Him because He is the Head and She is the Body. And they are One in Spirit. And when the Word says that they are called gods to whom the Word of God comes to, and that the saints shall judge the earth, She is the Word for Her day, manifesting and fulfilling Her part, reproducing the Life of the Spirit by bearing the fruit of the Spirit - which can only be done by taking the Word (which is Spirit and Life) in Her and becoming One with Him.
The Trinitarian belief that the Holy Spirit is a person is only part correct because it is not a third person. The Holy Spirit IS the same Spirit as the Father and the same Spirit found in the form of the Son, and that can now be found in His people. Same Spirit making Oneness. Not another Spirit.

These two sides of the argument are hitting around the truth but never getting to the exact balanced truth of the matter, that being that God is One Spirit that can be manifested in many members of flesh. AND the truth that God came to die for our sins in the body of his flesh through death and that it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell.
This revelation identifies the Holy Spirit not as a third person (since the Holy Spirit can be found in many people) and it rules out the supposed inability for God (Spirit) to be found in flesh (as some believe Jesus Christ was only) when scriptures throughout the Bible tell that that Spirit is exactly what was promised / fulfilled in Christ / and is promised / will be fulfilled in Bride.

 

[Bowman]

The Holy Spirit IS the same Spirit as the Father and the same Spirit found in the form of the Son, and that can now be found in His people. Same Spirit making Oneness. Not another Spirit.

Show us scripture stating that the Father is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bea22]

Show us scripture stating that the Father is the Holy Spirit.

All the scriptures in the world cannot do better than revelation.

But I will show you some after you answer these questions.
Who overshadowed Mary so that she was with child?

And who raised Jesus Christ from the dead?

And which Spirit is to dwell with and in the Bride?

 

[Bowman]

All the scriptures in the world cannot do better than revelation.

But I will show you some after you answer these questions.

That would be a stall...

Who overshadowed Mary so that she was with child?

God the Spirit.

And who raised Jesus Christ from the dead?

The Trinity.

And which Spirit is to dwell with and in the Bride?

God the Spirit.

 

[Bea22]

That would be a stall...







God the Spirit.

God the Spirit overshadowed Mary? Well, that's interesting because it says the Holy Spirit did. So I guess Jesus Christ - the flesh body - either had 2 Father's or the Holy Spirit is God the Spirit.

The Trinity.

The Trinity raised Christ from the dead? Well that would mean the Trinity dwells in His Bride then, wouldn't it, since scripture says 'if the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you, it will quicken your mortal body'

Then your following answer should be "The Trinity will dwell in God's people" ...

God the Spirit.

And then what of the scripture saying that by One Spirit are we baptised into One Body? Does that make the Trinity One Spirit, or does that mean there are three Spirits in the Bride?

 

[Bowman]

God the Spirit overshadowed Mary? Well, that's interesting because it says the Holy Spirit did. So I guess Jesus Christ - the flesh body - either had 2 Father's or the Holy Spirit is God the Spirit.

God the Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Two different ways of saying the same thing.

Having trouble locating a vese which states that the Father is the Holy Spirit?

The Trinity raised Christ from the dead?

According to scripture.

Well that would mean the Trinity dwells in His Bride then, wouldn't it, since scripture says 'if the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you, it will quicken your mortal body'

What about the Father?

Then your following answer should be "The Trinity will dwell in God's people" ...

Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit dwells within the believer.

And then what of the scripture saying that by One Spirit are we baptised into One Body? Does that make the Trinity One Spirit, or does that mean there are three Spirits in the Bride?

Scripture?

 

[Bea22]

God the Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Two different ways of saying the same thing.

Having trouble locating a vese which states that the Father is the Holy Spirit?

Oh, God the Spirit? God IS Spirit. John 4:24. He isn't three Spirits, He is One. As I said before, all the scriptures in the Bible would not suffice, but you can find the scriptures yourself that say that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. You can also find the many scriptures about who raised Christ from the dead

According to scripture.

According to your beliefs of those scriptures. It is still One Spirit that raised Christ from the dead.

What about the Father?

Where will He dwell? That might prove to be a problem according to your beliefs, not according to scripture though. Luke 17:21.
Christ is the Bridegroom and is the Head of the Body, making Her One with Him by Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12
3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.

Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit dwells within the believer.

How about this scripture: Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Scripture?

As above.. plus many many more that I could not possibly post on here. It's probably best to say read through the NT.

 

[Bowman]

Oh, God the Spirit? God IS Spirit. John 4:24. He isn't three Spirits, He is One.

Proper worship of God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

• Father
• Son (Truth)
• Spirit

As I said before, all the scriptures in the Bible would not suffice, but you can find the scriptures yourself that say that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. You can also find the many scriptures about who raised Christ from the dead

I can indeed...

According to your beliefs of those scriptures. It is still One Spirit that raised Christ from the dead.

One Trinity.

Where will He dwell? That might prove to be a problem according to your beliefs, not according to scripture though. Luke 17:21.
Christ is the Bridegroom and is the Head of the Body, making Her One with Him by Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12
3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.

And?

How about this scripture: Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

You just proved my point....The Holy Spirit dwells within the believer.

 

[Bea22]

Proper worship of God:

But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.(John 4.23 - 24)


This proper worship is as a Triune entity:

• Father
• Son (Truth)
• Spirit


I can indeed...


One Trinity.

And?


You just proved my point....The Holy Spirit dwells within the believer.

Thank you, you just proved mine
Romans 8: If Christ be in you...

 

[Bowman]

Thank you, you just proved mine
Romans 8: If Christ be in you...

Your example shows that Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. It shows distinction.

Further, your example never says that Jesus' Spirit dwells within the believer...only the Holy Spirit.