LOGIC

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cfultz3

Guest
#41
#41
eternally-gratefull said:
All I am saying is I read what you responded to, And I saw nothing in what he said which would allow, or promote living in fornication. So I was suprised in the way you responded to him.

If only faithfull are in heaven, then we have works?? Please explain
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that is my question to him: can the unfaithful be in Heaven also? He is the one who is implying that both the faithful and the unfaithful will be in Heaven. I may not have worded that way but it is what I am understanding him to say. And if not only the faithful are in Heaven, then why even waste my time being married to Christ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
#42
cfultz3 said:
that is my question to him: can the unfaithful be in Heaven also? He is the one who is implying that both the faithful and the unfaithful will be in Heaven. I may not have worded that way but it is what I am understanding him to say. And if not only the faithful are in Heaven, then why even waste my time being married to Christ?
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did he say this is the exact post you responded to or earlier. I am a late commer, so have not read it all. I did not see him say this in the one post though. thats why you confused me by what you said.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#43
#43
copied and pasted from post 22 (him= black me= purple)

I know that this idea is mere surmising.. but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation. -- :( . Please brother.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
#44
cfultz3 said:
copied and pasted from post 22 (him= black me= purple)

I know that this idea is mere surmising.. but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation. -- :( . Please brother.
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ok I see it, although I still did not see him say it was ok to go live a fornicating life. or live like you did before.

But I will wait for his answer to that because I am baffled by what he means by that also.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#45
#45
eternally-gratefull said:
ok I see it, although I still did not see him say it was ok to go live a fornicating life. or live like you did before.

But I will wait for his answer to that because I am baffled by what he means by that also.
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Please allow me to explain it the way I see it

IF...THEN..SO THEN clause

Him: but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation

SO THEN: the unfaithful has to go to Heaven too so that it would not be based on works (active faith). If the unfaithful are there also, as he said that they will be outside of the New Jerusalem (as though having made it to the New Kingdom), then what purpose would it serve for the faith in Christ if both the faithful and unfaithful virgins are to come into the Kingdom?
 
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psychomom

Guest
#46
#46
I guess it just depends on whether or not the One Who saved you
is powerful enough to keep you. :)

If He did the work of saving...doesn't He do the work of keeping?
In His own power, and to His own glory?

:)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
#47
cfultz3 said:
Please allow me to explain it the way I see it

IF...THEN..SO THEN clause

Him: but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation

SO THEN: the unfaithful has to go to Heaven too so that it would not be based on works (active faith). If the unfaithful are there also, as he said that they will be outside of the New Jerusalem (as though having made it to the New Kingdom), then what purpose would it serve for the faith in Christ if both the faithful and unfaithful virgins are to come into the Kingdom?
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Thats why I questioned it. I do not believe there will be unfaithful in heaven, If salvation is of faith, then how can someone who does not have faith get there.

However, I do believe there will be those of great faith (spiritually mature) and lesser faith (spiritual babes) in heaven. and those in-between.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
psychomom said:
I guess it just depends on whether or not the One Who saved you
is powerful enough to keep you. :)

If He did the work of saving...doesn't He do the work of keeping?
In His own power, and to His own glory?

:)
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Amen, If God knew how to bring us to him when we were his enemy, How would he fail to know how to bring us back to him when we are his children, it does not make sense to say God owuld know know how to bring someone back, or what it would take.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#49
#49
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen, If God knew how to bring us to him when we were his enemy, How would he fail to know how to bring us back to him when we are his children, it does not make sense to say God owuld know know how to bring someone back, or what it would take.
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Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, :)
to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.(Jude 1:24-25)

:)
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#50
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
113
#50
cfultz3 said:
copied and pasted from post 22 (him= black me= purple)

I know that this idea is mere surmising.. but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation. -- :( . Please brother.
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Hebrews 12:1-2
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Doesn't look like our work. It looks like faith is the work of the Lord Jesus. We just look to Him.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#51
#51
Grandpa said:
Hebrews 12:1-2
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Doesn't look like our work. It looks like faith is the work of the Lord Jesus. We just look to Him.
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Sorry, I do not know if you are saying that the unfaithful will also be in the new Kingdom?

P.S. I highlighhted the purple...Could not resist :)
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#52
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
113
#52
cfultz3 said:
Sorry, I do not know if you are saying that the unfaithful will also be in the new Kingdom?

P.S. I highlighhted the purple...Could not resist :)
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I bolded that part too...

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He's in charge of it.

It is a contradiction of terms to say the unfaithful will be in the Kingdom of God.

But to think that faith is a work is untrue also.

 
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Laodicea

Guest
#53
#53
John 8:31 KJV
(31) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

This text is clear that we need to continue, OSAS is a false doctrine. If OSAS were true then we could be saved, live like the devil and still go to heaven
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#54
#54
Grandpa said:
I bolded that part too...

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He's in charge of it.

It is a contradiction of terms to say the unfaithful will be in the Kingdom of God.

But to think that faith is a work is untrue also.
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I see now..... and to just express myself only...faith in anything = placing conifidence in anything......in our case....believing the Voice who was behind us telling us that we are to believe in the Son. The only work in faith is turning around freely and being led freely, seeing that salvation is through faith alone. Any works done after receiving Christ is soley in conjunction with the Spirit and is soley for reward (not saying that is why we are to do works).

lol sorry, I will stop here...my mind was about to go off into a typing frenzy :)
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#55
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
113
#55
Laodicea said:
John 8:31 KJV
(31) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

This text is clear that we need to continue, OSAS is a false doctrine. If OSAS were true then we could be saved, live like the devil and still go to heaven
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We are saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any boast.

Not of works.

Since we are saved by Grace, we are kept saved by that same Grace.

The Lord Jesus has said I will never leave you nor forsake you.

The Lord leads His Saved People. They are saved and they follow Him.

The Lord isn't leading people into debauchery, therefore your premise concerning osas is incorrect.

Where does the Lord lead His people? Into the paths of Righteousness...
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#56
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
113
#56
cfultz3 said:
I see now..... and to just express myself only...faith in anything = placing conifidence in anything......in our case....believing the Voice who was behind us telling us that we are to believe in the Son. The only work in faith is turning around freely and being led freely, seeing that salvation is through faith alone. Any works done after receiving Christ is soley in conjunction with the Spirit and is soley for reward (not saying that is why we are to do works).

lol sorry, I will stop here...my mind was about to go off into a typing frenzy :)
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Wattie was showing you that your salvation isn't based on your works. It isn't based on the faith that you must muster up.

I was just helping you see that the faith that is required is provided by the Lord Jesus Himself.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#57
#57
Grandpa said:
Wattie was showing you that your salvation isn't based on your works. It isn't based on the faith that you must muster up.

I was just helping you see that the faith that is required is provided by the Lord Jesus Himself.
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Ty Grandpa. But it still stands that he implied that more than those who are faithful will be a part of the new Kindgom.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#58
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
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#58
cfultz3 said:
Ty Grandpa. But it still stands that he implied that more than those who are faithful will be a part of the new Kindgom.
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I think his point was that if it is up to us to remain faithful then that is a work, and therefore not a requirement, otherwise it would be against other parts of the bible.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#59
Feb 24, 2009
3,459
1,280
113
New Zealand
#59
cfultz3 said:
Please allow me to explain it the way I see it

IF...THEN..SO THEN clause

Him: but if only faithful are in heaven.. then you have got yourself works based salvation

SO THEN: the unfaithful has to go to Heaven too so that it would not be based on works (active faith). If the unfaithful are there also, as he said that they will be outside of the New Jerusalem (as though having made it to the New Kingdom), then what purpose would it serve for the faith in Christ if both the faithful and unfaithful virgins are to come into the Kingdom?
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Okay

Someone gets saved.. they may not necessarily have a faithful life to Jesus afterwards. So AFTER they are already saved.. they may go wayward. So therefore.. there will be people in heaven who got saved but weren't as faithful as others.. and miss out on the greater rewards the others get. So it is therefore not only the people who were faithful in continuous service to God who gain entrance ot heaven.. but also those who did get saved but weren't as faithful.

It has to be this way.. because .. if there is only those who had a continuous service of faithfulness to Jesus after salvation in heaven.. then works had something to do with them getting entrance to heaven.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#60
Feb 24, 2009
3,459
1,280
113
New Zealand
#60
eternally-gratefull said:
Thats why I questioned it. I do not believe there will be unfaithful in heaven, If salvation is of faith, then how can someone who does not have faith get there.

However, I do believe there will be those of great faith (spiritually mature) and lesser faith (spiritual babes) in heaven. and those in-between.
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This is pretty much what I was saying. It isn't just the saved people who have been faithful their whole lives who get everlasting life. There are people who accept Christ.. and then don't live as they should.. not as faithful as other saved people who do live for Him.

Is it fair to say that people who accept Christ but falter.. don get a place in heaven?
 
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