LOGIC

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
#61
Laodicea said:
John 8:31 KJV
(31) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

This text is clear that we need to continue, OSAS is a false doctrine. If OSAS were true then we could be saved, live like the devil and still go to heaven
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Jesus did not contradict himself. many followed him who never truly believed in him, and left all the time, because they were following him for what he was doing, or what they thought he was going to do (king messiah, overthrow Rome) and some, and some did it just for the money (judas),, they were never saved. Jesus is warnign them, Believe in me, not your preconcieved idea of who I am,

scripture makes it clear, those who live like satan were NEVER saved. why people refuse to see this is beyond me
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
#62
wattie said:
Okay

Someone gets saved.. they may not necessarily have a faithful life to Jesus afterwards. So AFTER they are already saved.. they may go wayward. So therefore.. there will be people in heaven who got saved but weren't as faithful as others.. and miss out on the greater rewards the others get. So it is therefore not only the people who were faithful in continuous service to God who gain entrance ot heaven.. but also those who did get saved but weren't as faithful.

It has to be this way.. because .. if there is only those who had a continuous service of faithfulness to Jesus after salvation in heaven.. then works had something to do with them getting entrance to heaven.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
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This makes sense. and as I said early (maybe not in this thread) there will be a multitude of people in heaven, Those of great faith (spiritual mature adults) those with less faith (spiritual babes) and many in between, but they will ALL get to heaven.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
#63
wattie said:
This is pretty much what I was saying. It isn't just the saved people who have been faithful their whole lives who get everlasting life. There are people who accept Christ.. and then don't live as they should.. not as faithful as other saved people who do live for Him.

Is it fair to say that people who accept Christ but falter.. don get a place in heaven?
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I guess I did say it in this thread..lol This is what I thought you were saying but did not want to speak for you .Maybe word it lesser faith. As the man said to Christ, I have little faith, help me grow my faith. Many allow Christ to grow it. Many never find it.

 
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cfultz3

Guest
#64
#64
wattie said:
Okay

Someone gets saved.. they may not necessarily have a faithful life to Jesus afterwards. So AFTER they are already saved.. they may go wayward. So therefore.. there will be people in heaven who got saved but weren't as faithful as others.. and miss out on the greater rewards the others get. So it is therefore not only the people who were faithful in continuous service to God who gain entrance ot heaven.. but also those who did get saved but weren't as faithful.

It has to be this way.. because .. if there is only those who had a continuous service of faithfulness to Jesus after salvation in heaven.. then works had something to do with them getting entrance to heaven.
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Thank you for this explaination. One last question: can one who 'got' saved live a life in direct opposition against God's known will and has no intention on hearkening to the Holy Spirit still enter the new Kingdom? (having debating this question in your mind, answer yes or no or maybe).
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#65
Feb 24, 2009
3,458
1,280
113
New Zealand
#65
cfultz3 said:
Thank you for this explaination. One last question: can one who 'got' saved live a life in direct opposition against God's known will and has no intention on hearkening to the Holy Spirit still enter the new Kingdom? (having debating this question in your mind, answer yes or no or maybe).
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It is possible for this to happen.. but very unlikely.. given that their will be fruit from having recieved Christ and Christ will also be convicting that person to change by the Holy Spirit who is indwelling them. Like I posted before-- the Holy Spirit will be pricking them and pricking them and pricking them to change. It would be pretty unbearable to live like that.

If there is absolutely no fruit to show that someone has received Christ.. then they probably never did, but someone who is saved still has the ability to turn to old ways.. so this isn't something that is that easy to tell.

So the answer is maybe.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#66
#66
eternally-gratefull said:
Jesus did not contradict himself. many followed him who never truly believed in him, and left all the time, because they were following him for what he was doing, or what they thought he was going to do (king messiah, overthrow Rome) and some, and some did it just for the money (judas),, they were never saved. Jesus is warnign them, Believe in me, not your preconcieved idea of who I am,

scripture makes it clear, those who live like satan were NEVER saved. why people refuse to see this is beyond me
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According to Revelation 3:5 our names can be taken out of the book of life. That means we can lose our salvation because anyone who has their name in the book of life has salvation. On judgement day our names can be taken out of the book of life.

Revelation 14:7 says "The hour of His judgement has come" and Daniel 7 points to the judgement as well.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#67
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
113
#67
Laodicea said:
According to Revelation 3:5 our names can be taken out of the book of life. That means we can lose our salvation because anyone who has their name in the book of life has salvation. On judgement day our names can be taken out of the book of life.

Revelation 14:7 says "The hour of His judgement has come" and Daniel 7 points to the judgement as well.
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Awww, Lao. I think you are trying to read your doctrine into those scriptures. Here's an easy one that doesn't need interpretation or doctrine;

Hebrews 3:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Here's some more while you're letting that sink in...

Romans 8:27-39
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#68
#68
[QUOTE=wattie Like I posted before-- the Holy Spirit will be pricking them and pricking them and pricking them to change. It would be pretty unbearable to live like that.

That is a pretty good theory... but it doesn't really harmonize with the order and mercy of God... In that the pricking and pricking just won't happen... instead you will be allowed to fall to the consequences so that you will turn back to God. The Scripture is clear that both Jesus and the HolySpirit LEAD/GUIDE... there is an implied gentlesness. The pricking and pricking you describe is implies a jabbing, harsh impatience that does not characterize the nature of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
#69
Laodicea said:
According to Revelation 3:5 our names can be taken out of the book of life. That means we can lose our salvation because anyone who has their name in the book of life has salvation. On judgement day our names can be taken out of the book of life.

Revelation 14:7 says "The hour of His judgement has come" and Daniel 7 points to the judgement as well.
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So we totally ignore what Jesus said in John 6? What is with you people and your refusal to acknowledge or discuss what jesus said in John 6? Ar4e you afraid?

Everyones name is written in the book of life. It is erased only when we pass on, Depending on if we have accepted Christ's offer of salvation or rejected it.

No one goes to hell because of sin, Jesus paid the price for sin, But one act will never be forgiven, Rejection, or blaspheming the spirit by rejecting what he came to teach, the gospel of Christ.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#70
#70
eternally-gratefull said:
No one goes to hell because of sin, Jesus paid the price for sin, But one act will never be forgiven, Rejection, or blaspheming the spirit by rejecting what he came to teach, the gospel of Christ.
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Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

What is left but the second death and what is the second death:

Rev_20:14 And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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starfield

Senior Member
#71
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#71
cfultz3 said:
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

What is left but the second death and what is the second death:

Rev_20:14 And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev_21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
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I couldn't agree more. Jesus Christ paid the price for sin so that those who believe in Him will escape the second death. Those that reject God's provision for salvation obviously live in sin and thus will face eternal condemnation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
#72
cfultz3 said:
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

What is left but the second death and what is the second death:

Rev_20:14 And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev_21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
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Yet again we go to John 6. A passage people seem to refuse to look at.


He who eats this food will

never hunger or thirst

Never die

Have eternal life

Be risen on the last day

Live as long as Christ lives.

So tell me, if God said we will never die, why do you want to think we can die again?

And as for as the revelation passage, Who was delivered to him for that second death? was it not death and hades, or in other words, the people already dead to God, who had not been born again?

As for James, hurt yourself by using it
1. All sin, no matter how slight causes us to die, meaning we would lose salvation with even the slightest of sins, and as he said later on, even the least of the law causes us to be guilty of the whole law.


 
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cfultz3

Guest
#73
#73
eternally-gratefull said:
Yet again we go to John 6. A passage people seem to refuse to look at.


He who eats this food will

never hunger or thirst

Never die

Have eternal life

Be risen on the last day

Live as long as Christ lives.

So tell me, if God said we will ne3ver die, why do you want to think we can die again?

And as for as the revelation passage, Who was delivered to him for that second death? was it not death and hades, or in other words, the people already dead to God, who had not been born again?
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No one goes to hell because of sin?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
#74
starfield said:
I couldn't agree more. Jesus Christ paid the price for sin so that those who believe in Him will escape the second death. Those that reject God's provision for salvation obviously live in sin and thus will face eternal condemnation.
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Yes they will. But not because they lives in sin, but because they did not believe in the only name of Jesus with the full assurance of everything the gospel says/.

1. They did not repent
2. They were hearers and not doers of the word
3. They had no faith in Christ, just mere belief.


They did not lose salvation, if they could, we would be under law, and not grace. They never HAD SALVATION
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75
#75
cfultz3 said:
No one goes to hell because of sin?
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All manner of sin and blasphemy WILL BE FORGIVEN MEN.

Jesus paid the price of sin for just some of the world? or all of it?

They will go to hell for rejecting the HS, and calling him a liar (blasphmeny)

Look at rev, They were judged according to their work. NOT SIN/. And condemned because they were not written in the book.

As scripture says, Jesus is the propitiation for our sin, But not only ours, but the whole worlds.

If they go to hell because of sin, they are under law.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#78
#78
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#79
#79
my mouth is still gapped open
 
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gracethroughfaith

Guest
#80
#80
cfultz3 said:
Thank you for this explaination. One last question: can one who 'got' saved live a life in direct opposition against God's known will and has no intention on hearkening to the Holy Spirit still enter the new Kingdom? (having debating this question in your mind, answer yes or no or maybe).
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No! God makes it very clear more than once in his Word!

Luke 9:62 (KJV)
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:16-21 (KJV)
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:1-5 (KJV)
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
 
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