Perfect Romance... or not quite

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LightningClap0002

LightningClap0002

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2008
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So I found it interesting that in another thread Jacob and Rachel's relationship has come up on a pedestal as a great romance. I recently heard a sermon based on this that has certainly given me a new perspective on some things.

It starts like this: There were a lot of ungodly behavior documented throughout the OT. Rape and incest and polygamy among several of them. This leads to the question, well what other relationships do we find in the OT that might not really match up with God's true will for human relationships. After some analysis of Jacob and Rachel's relationship, maybe it isn't quite as perfect as some think.

In truth, Jacob was punished by God for his love of Rachel. He worked for 7 years! 7 years with Rachel in mind, where was God in all of this? The most we really find in Genesis 29 is that he did it all because Rachel was beautiful. She had become an object of such great desire that he gave up 7 years of his life for her. But God is jealous, we know that He desires this of us with Him, not with anyone or any thing else. But God had a plan for Jacob and Leah. Leah was to be the mother of nations. Inspite of Jacob's great desire for the beautiful flower, God was the truth of the matter. Jacob worked out of selfishness and put his desires ahead of Gods. He wasn't seeking God's will at all. As later detailed, evil bears evilness as its fruit. This is the fruit that Jacob's blind and foolish desire for Rachel bore: Leah was miserable because her husband didn't love her. And then even Rachel fell to evil jealousy.

So were Jacob and Rachel really an example of perfect romance? It certainly doesn't seem like it to me.
 
If you look closely at most relationships in the Bible, they were far from perfect and probably not exactly very full of love or romance, so I always wonder why so many Christians believe God has "the perfect person" for them and some kind of happily ever after fairy tale in store for their lives. I can't think of anyone in the Bible who really got this for their own relationship.

In not one but two cases, Abraham was willing to hand Sarah over to strangers, knowing full well what would happen to her, in order to save his own life. Isaac did the same thing with Rebekah. These patriarchs of the faith were married to beautiful women... and were not shy about being willing to sacrifice these women for their own necks.

David, the man after God's own heart, was married to multiple women (I can think of at least two others that were names besides Bathsheba) and had numerous concubines. Look as his relationships with Bathsheba: "I'll sneak around with you, then do all these dishonest things to hide the fact that I'm your baby daddy, then kill your husband to justify your being pregnant." In another instance, it says he had relations with ten women and then never went to see them again, forcing them to live as widows who apparently could not remarry for the rest of their lives, even though David had to provide for them.

It always makes me shake my head when I hear women say, "I want to marry a Godly man like David!!" Sure, if you're willing to share him with dozens of other women. I'm guessing these women may have only know about the parts of his life we're cheerily told in Sunday School.

His faith was, of course, admirable, but the way he treated women? No thanks. I'd rather stay single than be with someone like that.
 
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You guys just said something that's been on my mind for a while. Thank you! As Kim said, I admire the patriarch's faith and I appreciate their part in history because if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be here. I don't question God's purpose for them, but I certainly wouldn't be a happy wife if they had been my husbands.

I know the OT is not a book about perfect people with perfect relationships, it's about a perfect God working with extremely broken people and showing mercy on them. I think we can learn a lot of things from the OT people...I think we can learn to work for what we want , as Jacob did, and we can learn about faith from people like Abraham and Joshua. But I don't know if there were good marriage examples in the OT....the only ones I can think of are Ruth and Boaz, but they don't give any details of what happened after they got married.

I'm not condemning the people from the OT, but I don't think their lives were set as a model to follow for us. I think some of them (the ones God praised) were just genuinely trying to follow God, but they failed in so many ways. God had mercy on them of course. They didn't have the HS with them, like he is with us...so I think there is a difference there. We would probably act the same way if Jesus hadn't come to save us from ourselves. I'm not saying we shouldn' t take any story from the OT as an example, but at least when it comes to marriage relationships, they were pretty broken until Jesus came and restored our hearts.
 
"So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her." <doesn't seem like punishment to me. certainly not a punishment from God.

I feel bad for Leah but honestly it was Her father's fault. She never asked to be married to a man who fell in love with her sister.

I don't see this as any more a apart of God's plan as, the Amelikites, Ishmael or Moses striking the Rock. We have a LOT of freedom to make choices that will effect things to come. Its not a divine scenario to be subject to someone else's choices. Its simply life.
 
Liamson said:
"So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her." <doesn't seem like punishment to me. certainly not a punishment from God.

I feel bad for Leah but honestly it was Her father's fault. She never asked to be married to a man who fell in love with her sister.

I don't see this as any more a apart of God's plan as, the Amelikites, Ishmael or Moses striking the Rock. We have a LOT of freedom to make choices that will effect things to come. Its not a divine scenario to be subject to someone else's choices. Its simply life.
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I like this part: ''So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her.'' But that's about the only part I like about the relationship. And when I think about it....he didn't even know Racquel. He saw her, she was beautiful, and so he decided he wanted to marry her because she was beautiful. I don't doubt that after he got to know her more, his attraction turned into genuine love....but I wouldn't advice anyone to follow after his steps :p.

I don't know...I think the culture and the traditions back then played a big role. In that time that was the right or normal thing to do, just marry a girl without really knowing her. I wouldn't do that today. But I do admire to perseverance and his fighting for the woman he loved...or at least the woman he thought he would love.
 
Haha I just noticed I said Raquel instead of Rachel. Raquel is the spanish version of the name :)
 
Liamson said:
"So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her." <doesn't seem like punishment to me. certainly not a punishment from God.

I feel bad for Leah but honestly it was Her father's fault. She never asked to be married to a man who fell in love with her sister.

I don't see this as any more a apart of God's plan as, the Amelikites, Ishmael or Moses striking the Rock. We have a LOT of freedom to make choices that will effect things to come. Its not a divine scenario to be subject to someone else's choices. Its simply life.
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The seven years wasn't the punishment. The punishment came after, as he didn't actually get what he had worked so hard towards.

And it must have been a divine scenario, because everything good comes from God. And those born to Leah were destined for great things. God doesn't play dice with the world. - Einstein
 
Jacob merely shows us that God can love and use a man with a myriad of character flaws. No, it was by no means the "perfect romance."

Personally, I thought Ruth's story was a much sweeter one.
 
LightningClap0002 said:
The seven years wasn't the punishment. The punishment came after, as he didn't actually get what he had worked so hard towards.

And it must have been a divine scenario, because everything good comes from God. And those born to Leah were destined for great things. God doesn't play dice with the world. - Einstein
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"God doesn't play dice with the world" - Einstein is deeply irrelevant to this discussion.

So Laban is reprieved of any selfishness in the scenario because children were born to Leah? We can only comment on the things which have occurred, and it would be a silly mistake to assume that just because something happened, that it was a plan executed by God.

Yes God has made everything work toward His Glory but, there are still agents warring against this divine plan.
 
As i sit here watching Bob Ross decide where he wants to paint his happy little clouds, i realize i have nothing to add to this discussion.
 
I agree the bible is chock full of bad marital relationships, particularly the old testament, but I fail to see how God punishes Jacob in this story. It's never stated anywhere, and there's no reference to it anywhere.
 
I thought the other thread was talking about our favorite romances, not perfect romances. I don't know that I've ever come across a perfect romance either in scripture or otherwise, except for the romance between the perfect Bridegroom and the Bride He is perfecting. The rest of us are too imperfect to accomplish that, which is why He needs to be in the center of our relationships.
 
Jullianna said:
I thought the other thread was talking about our favorite romances, not perfect romances. I don't know that I've ever come across a perfect romance either in scripture or otherwise, except for the romance between the perfect Bridegroom and the Bride He is perfecting. The rest of us are too imperfect to accomplish that, which is why He needs to be in the center of our relationships.
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Which is why I made a new thread :) I thought it was interesting because I hadn't ever really paid much attention to Jacob and Rachel, and then in the span of a week I heard a sermon on it; highlighting how negative of a situation it actually was. And then shortly after saw people calling it out as a great example of, well a favorite romance I guess. It struck me as odd how truly different people viewed the story. On the one hand as something seemingly to aspire to, and on the other a warning of something to avoid.

I'm still in the boat that says that true "romance" requires substituting a human for God in level of importance. Perhaps it can still be a "favorite romance" and an awful spiritual or life guide? :S
 
I like it because, even in disappointment, love won out and they were able to be together. :)

I always felt sorry for Leah feeling unloved, but..then again, I can't imagine that she didn't know it was Rachel Jacob wanted. In my book, that makes what she did as underhanded as what her father did.

It also speaks very highly of Jacob that he did not cast Leah aside once he discovered her and Laban's betrayal. Even though he was deceived, he honored her as his wife, even though he did not love her and did not choose her.
 
In the end, though, was it truly God's will that was sought by Jacob? Who was actually at fault? Was it God's will that Jacob blindly seek after Rachel? Did love really 'win'? If so, what leads you to believe this?
 
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Is there scripture indicating that he didn't pray about it? Don't recall seeing that, but I'll go back and read it again.

In my book, people who intentionally deceive others, like Leah and Laban, would be the ones at fault. Jacob was clear about who he wanted as his wife and deceived no one. How would he be at fault?
 
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After reviewing Genesis 29, I do not see any indication that Jacob did not pray or seek God&#8217;s will regarding marrying Rachel. Scripture is silent in this regard, so there is no way we can know whether he did or didn&#8217;t.

I also don&#8217;t see anything deceitful or sinful in the behavior of Jacob or Rachel anywhere in the chapter. If Laban had objected to the agreement because of Leah&#8217;s birthright, he could have told Jacob this up front.

However, if I go back a few chapters, I can see how God might have allowed this situation in order to show Jacob how very hurtful it was to Esau and his father to have been deceived by Jacob regarding Esau&#8217;s birthright, and especially to be deceived by a trusted family member. It also stressed the importance of birthright. It was Leah&#8217;s birthright to marry first. But, that really doesn&#8217;t make me like the story less, especially after reading this line J :

Genesis 29: 20 So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her.

I like it all the more now. J
 
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Oops...I forgot something. I know that years later Rachel became envious of Leah, but I have to say that if my sister knew that a man loved me, wanted to marry me, made an agreement with my dad to marry me, worked 7 long hard years to marry me and then tricked that man with the help of my dad into marrying her instead, I probably wouldn&#8217;t be too thrilled with my sister either.

I'm not saying it's right to feel that way, I'm just saying that if I had to watch my deceitful sister live with the man who wanted to be my husband for 7 years, I probably would be less than thrilled about it too. :)
 
Nothing sinful, he just made the mistake of not hiring good legal council.

Everyone knows that if you are going to make a deal with a potentially deceitful set of intended in-laws, that you put your expectations in writing, have both parties sign the document, and put it someplace safe, perhaps a filing cabinet with a good lock for about seven years or so right next to the pre-nups.

Once Laban offers Leah, both of them get slapped for breach of contract. Byah!!!!
 
I don't know if everyone sinned in this situation, or if Laban, Leah and Jacob, or if it was just Laban and Leah. I see Rachel and Leah more like the victims , especially Rachel, but that's just my opinion. All I know is that I WANT MY HUSBAND TO BE MINE. :p
 
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