CT shooting: political thread

[TheGrungeDiva]

Out of respect for Stilly and the many others who have spoken in the other thread set up strictly as prayer for the victims of the shooting in CT, I thought it might be nice to set up a separate thread where we could discuss some of the political responses, ramifications, etc.

Obviously, all Christian Chat rules still apply.

 

[Nautilus]

I dont really see a need to pray for the victims, since they have already passed and the lives they chose to live, determined their fate. My words can do nothing for them at this point. I will pray for the family of the victims and the family of the perpetator since both are going through this.

 

[1still_waters]

I'm finding it hard to accept the sincerity of pro-choicers when they call for new laws because of this tragedy, given the fact they advocate the crushing of the heads of the unborn.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

No earthly legislation can ever heal the wounded spirit that can commit such atrocity. There is only one answer to the brokenness that is in humanity; we pray to Him.

 

[Nautilus]

I'm finding it hard to accept the sincerity of pro-choicers when they call for new laws because of this tragedy, given the fact they advocate the crushing of the heads of the unborn.

if you want to bring something totally unrelated into it, personally I dont think life begins at conception. So for me abortion is not that serious. There are differing prevailing opinions of life beginning at conception and life beginning at birth. So hating that this happened and being pro-choice can be totally exclusive of one another.

Kinda like how a lot of pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty...

 

[Tommy4Christ]

I cant believe this post!

No one mentioned the heart of man, and why these horrible and vile things are happening more and more, I blame it all on the church and what they preach.

You are concerned with gun laws, political issues, praying more, etc... when in reality you should be preaching that America repents on the scale of Nineveh!

As well as those in the liberal Churches, who preach the saved IN sin gospel, NO repentance, substitute gospel.

The heart of man is dead, blaiming their sick condition on their so called sin nature, making all kinds of excuses why this sick crime happened, while those in the churches are wallowing in sin and disobedience!

In flaming fire!​

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ…………​

The main problem I am seeing in modern Christianity today is a poor understanding of who God is, and what He is asking mankind to do to be reconciled back to Him. Many, who profess to be saved, do not know God, and those who profess to be atheist, just deny reality. Both positions are a very dangerous place to be in, as stated in 2 Tim 1-8.
I was taught for most of my lukewarm Christian life, that God is more concerned with your ability to just believe He exists, and that He sent His son Jesus to be a substitutional sacrifice and overcomer for all those who were born depraved and unable to truly repent, and seek His mercy, then follow Him in an obedient faith, brought forth by a love, fear, and respect of a God who commands and demands ALL mankind to depart from iniquity and repent(not confess and believe) But stop sinning, for example, stop fornication, stop adultery, stop drunkenness, lying, cheating, stealing, and also put away the love of the world, and all its vain attractions!
Now for those who follow another gospel that promises them liberty, while actually telling them they are eternally saved and going to heaven because they said the sinners prayer (sorrow of the world) and then trust all is done, all sin is pre forgiven, and repentance is more of an apology or confession you are a sinner and cannot stop your vile sins this side if heaven, woe to you!
To know and obey God should be the number one concern of the church today, not “trust” in something that never happened, i.e., penal substitution, OSAS, or any false gospel that would declare you righteous while you are still defiled or unrighteous, telling you are depraved and a sinning saint till the day you die!
Those who know God and obey as commanded, will clearly see the huge difference between the saved in sin cloaked message being sold today, and the free, simple message Jesus and the profits brought to the lost sinning masses thousands of years ago.
Which was, man has free will and ability to choose to obey or not, repentance towards God and faith towards Jesus Christ was preached far and wide as the only means to be reconciled to God and enter the kingdom.
This repentance and faith meant the vile rebellion stopped before mercy would even be considered, please read Jonah Ch 3, and the Prodigal son, who stopped his rebellion BEFORE his father would forgive him and accept back.
I wrote this short message in an attempt to show the reader and seeker of truth the huge difference between what is taught as truth today, which is another gospel and another Christ, and the true gospel according to obedience, repentance, godliness, and purity that can only come from a crucified soul, broken through a crisis of conviction, followed by real repentance and godly sorrow, assuming nothing from God, except hoping He relents and grants you mercy and pardon.
This is not an attempt to explain in detail the problems with the church today, along with all the leaven added into the pure word for the last 500 years or so. This has been covered before in great detail, for those who are willing to dig deep, and count the cost, come out of the church system and world, and seek the pearl of great price, that is free and available and calling all those in bondage to freedom and purity that can only come when you seek to know God and obey His commands!
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

No one mentioned the heart of man, ...

I believe I covered that when I indicated that he was deeply troubled.

You are concerned with gun laws, political issues, praying more, etc...

So you think we shouldn't pray?

when in reality you should be preaching that America repents on the scale of Nineveh!

That's certainly another option. I think that would absolutely fit under the category of "other" which was an option. And I agree that we as a nation must take responsibility for this.

As well as those in the liberal Churches, who preach the saved IN sin gospel, NO repentance, substitute gospel.

Well, as a member of what you would probably call "a liberal Church" (Episcopalian), I can say that we preach and teach repentance of sins. Although I know there are some churches out there where it seems they don't teach repentance. It's more like a "whatever you want Jesus loves you" message ... they are certainly in the minority, not the mainstream "liberal" churches such as mine.

But "substitute" theology? That is a conservative and orthodox stalwart, dude. In fact, a lot of liberal churches are getting flack from their more conservative and evangelical sibling churches for rejecting the substitute gospel. Very few liberal churches preach that any more; almost ALL the churches I know who do preach it are very conservative .... and all the conservative churches preach it. So maybe you're confusing some theology terms or something?

Ultimately, I'm not sure how helpful it is to blame the Church, when She is the only source of refuge, the only Bride of Jesus. And Jesus is the only one to whom we can turn in times like this, because nothing else makes sense. Nothing.

Yes, the heart of man (and woman) is dark, and full of sin. Rather than blaming, and preaching a message of hate and bile which will only turn off those who are not saved, let us preach a message of love and forgiveness, a message that is balm in the wounds that are this life. Without Christ, our whole world is as depraved as this shooter (whose name I would just as soon continue to forget). With him, we have hope and faith in the New Heaven and New Earth.

 

[violakat]

I think we should pray for the victims, not the ones that are dead, but the ones that are left behind. And, in addition to praying for the perpetrator, if he were still alive, we also should pray for his family. They are going to be going through so much right now.

 

[raf]

I'm finding it hard to accept the sincerity of pro-choicers when they call for new laws because of this tragedy, given the fact they advocate the crushing of the heads of the unborn.

I'm against abortions but I think we need better gun laws. I think the two are unrelated wanting more gun laws doesn't have to mean you're pro choice which I don't call it. If you look at actual statistics of other countries with better gun laws the murder rate from guns are way lower. Actually the murder rate in general is lower since guns are the easiest way to kill people other than bombs. The only country that has really higher murder rates and bans guns is mexico but thats because americans keep selling drug cartels guns and the government is weak and cant protect its citizens.

 

[raf]

I cant believe this post!

No one mentioned the heart of man, and why these horrible and vile things are happening more and more, I blame it all on the church and what they preach.

You are concerned with gun laws, political issues, praying more, etc... when in reality you should be preaching that America repents on the scale of Nineveh!

As well as those in the liberal Churches, who preach the saved IN sin gospel, NO repentance, substitute gospel.

The heart of man is dead, blaiming their sick condition on their so called sin nature, making all kinds of excuses why this sick crime happened, while those in the churches are wallowing in sin and disobedience!

In flaming fire!​

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ…………​

The main problem I am seeing in modern Christianity today is a poor understanding of who God is, and what He is asking mankind to do to be reconciled back to Him. Many, who profess to be saved, do not know God, and those who profess to be atheist, just deny reality. Both positions are a very dangerous place to be in, as stated in 2 Tim 1-8.
I was taught for most of my lukewarm Christian life, that God is more concerned with your ability to just believe He exists, and that He sent His son Jesus to be a substitutional sacrifice and overcomer for all those who were born depraved and unable to truly repent, and seek His mercy, then follow Him in an obedient faith, brought forth by a love, fear, and respect of a God who commands and demands ALL mankind to depart from iniquity and repent(not confess and believe) But stop sinning, for example, stop fornication, stop adultery, stop drunkenness, lying, cheating, stealing, and also put away the love of the world, and all its vain attractions!
Now for those who follow another gospel that promises them liberty, while actually telling them they are eternally saved and going to heaven because they said the sinners prayer (sorrow of the world) and then trust all is done, all sin is pre forgiven, and repentance is more of an apology or confession you are a sinner and cannot stop your vile sins this side if heaven, woe to you!
To know and obey God should be the number one concern of the church today, not “trust” in something that never happened, i.e., penal substitution, OSAS, or any false gospel that would declare you righteous while you are still defiled or unrighteous, telling you are depraved and a sinning saint till the day you die!
Those who know God and obey as commanded, will clearly see the huge difference between the saved in sin cloaked message being sold today, and the free, simple message Jesus and the profits brought to the lost sinning masses thousands of years ago.
Which was, man has free will and ability to choose to obey or not, repentance towards God and faith towards Jesus Christ was preached far and wide as the only means to be reconciled to God and enter the kingdom.
This repentance and faith meant the vile rebellion stopped before mercy would even be considered, please read Jonah Ch 3, and the Prodigal son, who stopped his rebellion BEFORE his father would forgive him and accept back.
I wrote this short message in an attempt to show the reader and seeker of truth the huge difference between what is taught as truth today, which is another gospel and another Christ, and the true gospel according to obedience, repentance, godliness, and purity that can only come from a crucified soul, broken through a crisis of conviction, followed by real repentance and godly sorrow, assuming nothing from God, except hoping He relents and grants you mercy and pardon.
This is not an attempt to explain in detail the problems with the church today, along with all the leaven added into the pure word for the last 500 years or so. This has been covered before in great detail, for those who are willing to dig deep, and count the cost, come out of the church system and world, and seek the pearl of great price, that is free and available and calling all those in bondage to freedom and purity that can only come when you seek to know God and obey His commands!
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

I think I met a person giving out pamphlets at a gas station that talk about something similar to this.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Pray for the living, and I hope people would realize that most of the big shootings have bigger issues than acquisition of guns.

Most of these shootings are preventable, if people would just be nice to each other.

Ex-classmates say gunman was bullied - US news - Crime & courts - Massacre at Virginia Tech | NBC News <--- click

Virginia Tech for example, would have been almost entirely avoidable if he had not been so strongly bullied.

Adam Lanza, seems to have had some other issues as well.

Adam Lanza Was A 'Loner' Who Felt Little Pain: Teacher <--- click

I think it is rather unfortunate, that this get's turned into a political game where liberals demand guns be taken away rather than addressing the bigger problems, and conservatives just go right along with the political game by advocating more guns in the hands of people.


It just goes to show that no one really cares, and they just want to make their political scores.

There is also a pride element to this. We tend to think this is what crazy people do, but we ourselves would be very much this way were it not for the common grace of God.

Genesis 20:6 (ESV)
6 Then God said to him in the dream, &#8220;Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart, and it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her.

Samuel 25:26
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 &#8220;Now therefore, my lord, as the Lord lives, and as your soul lives, since the Lord has restrained you from [a]shedding blood, and from avenging yourself by your own hand, now then let your enemies and those who seek evil against my lord, be as Nabal.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Kinda like how a lot of pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty...

If by pro-life you mean that a person is "always for the preserving of life in every case regardless of circumstances", yes, it is a contradiction. On that definition, I would not be pro-life. I don't really claim the title much anyway. I'm pro-God, and sometimes life lives, and some times life comes to an end.

 

[Nautilus]

If by pro-life you mean that a person is "always for the preserving of life in every case regardless of circumstances", yes, it is a contradiction. On that definition, I would not be pro-life. I don't really claim the title much anyway. I'm pro-God, and sometimes life lives, and some times life comes to an end.

This is a better response tha most give when confronted with that. I like the way you honestly approach.

 

[jimmydiggs]

This is a better response tha most give when confronted with that. I like the way you honestly approach.

Having said that, I haven't seen any argument that legitimizes abortion. The vast majority of abortion cases are absolutely a murder case.

I tend to shy away from the death penalty, mostly out of hope that a person can be transformed by the Gospel... I accept though that Romans 13 reserves to Government the ability to enact the death penalty.

 

[raf]

Pray for the living, and I hope people would realize that most of the big shootings have bigger issues than acquisition of guns.

Most of these shootings are preventable, if people would just be nice to each other.

Ex-classmates say gunman was bullied - US news - Crime & courts - Massacre at Virginia Tech | NBC News <--- click

Virginia Tech for example, would have been almost entirely avoidable if he had not been so strongly bullied.

Adam Lanza, seems to have had some other issues as well.

Adam Lanza Was A 'Loner' Who Felt Little Pain: Teacher <--- click

I think it is rather unfortunate, that this get's turned into a political game where liberals demand guns be taken away rather than addressing the bigger problems, and conservatives just go right along with the political game by advocating more guns in the hands of people.


It just goes to show that no one really cares, and they just want to make their political scores.

There is also a pride element to this. We tend to think this is what crazy people do, but we ourselves would be very much this way were it not for the common grace of God.

Genesis 20:6 (ESV)
6 Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart, and it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her.

Samuel 25:26
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 “Now therefore, my lord, as the Lord lives, and as your soul lives, since the Lord has restrained you from [a]shedding blood, and from avenging yourself by your own hand, now then let your enemies and those who seek evil against my lord, be as Nabal.

Fixing gun laws is easier than to get people to stop bullying *most bullies ive met in school were republicans or from republican families* Also you're acting like liberals want all guns to be taken, better gun laws a lot of time means more difficult to get guns no one is going to take the guns you already have only rush lumbough says things like this will happen. Example when Norinco guns were banned in 2003 I think from USA people who already had them got to keep them. No one will take away people's existing guns.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Fixing gun laws is easier than to get people to stop bullying *most bullies ive met in school were republicans or from republican families* Also you're acting like liberals want all guns to be taken, better gun laws a lot of time means more difficult to get guns no one is going to take the guns you already have only rush lumbough says things like this will happen. Example when Norinco guns were banned in 2003 I think from USA people who already had them got to keep them. No one will take away people's existing guns.

Which is the bigger problem?

 

[violakat]

In light of reading the article that Jimmy linked, I will not be surprised if they found that something traumatic happened to Adam when he was a child. With the exception of chemical imbalances, and those who are born socially awkward, such as autism, you do not see this type of withdraw. And even among those born socially challenged, they tend not to try and destroy others. But I think this is not his problem, although he may have some tendencies. But I'm thinking of maybe more the lines of possible brain injury, or maybe even unknown abuse. Injuries can cause one to do things they would never do. It can even change someone's personality. And as for abuse, if it festers to long, it becomes resentment and bitterness. And sometimes leads to paranoia, which may have trigger his fear around people. But then, this is all guessing.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

A call to action: put more guns into the hands of law abiding citizens so they can properly defend themselves as is their human and Constitutional right.

 

[djness]

I say pray for the famiiles of the victims, I don't think that praying for dead people is of any help to the dead.Praying for God to help bring some comfort to the people who lost someone I think is the right course of action and also for salvation of any who don't know God.

I do think God still hands out consequences in this life for sin whether it be to the indivdual or to the nation which I think scriptures shows as Gods way of trying to corral people back to him. I really couldn't say that tommy4christ is wrong. Anytime a nation repented on a grand scale God lavished blessing and protection on them. When they don't He lets terror come upon them.

I used to think getting rid of guns wouldn't change anything but we actually have such a high rate of gun murder compared to most countries in the world, I mean like tens of thousands compared to hundreds. I guess its' one of those thing were if a few people are going to abuse them, then just nobody gets to have it. Of course then everyone who thinks that the goverment is going to oppress them wouldn't have a gun to defend their rights till death.
We could word some laws in very specific ways, we could outlaw guns entirely, we could even outlaw jolly ranchers since you can melt them down and let them recool into the form of a knife and kill a man with it, it's been done. We could give everyone more guns, arm every single person as some would suggest. We could just lock up everyone who isn't normal, it would just fall on some panel to determine who is normal. I think during the early to mid 1800's asylums were on the rise and chock full of people we didn't know what to do with.


I would go for the get back to God and repentance part, but I know since it's been determined we aren't a christian nation in other threads this isn't a viable option. So I guess just throw some more legislation at the problem and see what happens.

 

[BarlyGurl]

if you want to bring something totally unrelated into it, personally I dont think life begins at conception. So for me abortion is not that serious. There are differing prevailing opinions of life beginning at conception and life beginning at birth. So hating that this happened and being pro-choice can be totally exclusive of one another.

Kinda like how a lot of pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty...

THE BIBLE IS CLEARLY PRO-DEATH PENALTY do you EVER study the bible?