Need prayer for marriage

Stephen · Dec 29, 2012

Hello All, We went to our second counseling session and basically I am protesting her actions but can not do anything about it. So, I found out she already has a place and will move out around January 21 or 22. Our sons will stay with me and she will visit them as she likes.

In our discussions it comes out that for some reason she has a strong desire to be independent and that a Christian marriage isn't providing that. It absolutely saddens me to see this happening. Her walk is not what it once was and she just seems so defiant. She is doing dangerous things like drinking and driving and Lord only knows what else. I am praying for her and asking all who read this to do so as well. I fear she is in grave danger and allowing the adversary to influence her. I worry that our separation will only place her in an environment with more negative influence and fuel her desires for what the world offers.
Brothers and Sisters I trust our Father and He provides me peace during this horrible storm. Through this I am growing in my faith and love for Him. He is guiding me to continue to show my wife my love for her despite her actions. I will not stumble and drop my cross so please focus prayer on her and our children.

Thank you all and God Bless,

Enow · Dec 29, 2012

Stephen said:

From another post #34

Brother: I am going to share something and so you may have to take it as a grain of salt. All I ask is that you take what I share by His grcae & by His help before that throne of grace for discernment.

No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak, therefore what is impossible with man, is possible with God.

Commitment is usually associated with more and more the religious striving of an individual in saying "I will" and winds up doing the best they can.

I have seen believers making this commitment to Christ and burning out because of it, in trying to follow Him by keeping that commitment the best they can.

Some christians testify that christianity doesn't work, and that they have tried "it".

This is all bearing witness that there is a huge difference between following Him by faith that He will help us to follow Him and making a commitment to follow Him by the flesh.

It took the Lord the longest time to help me see my doubleminded state when I was led by my church to make Jesus Lord of my life by making a commitment to Him in my high school years even though I was a believer long before that time. Little did I know I was hoodwinked in being foolish using my zeal & love for God like the Galatians in trying to finish by the flesh what was begun with the Spirit.

As if that commitment wasn't enough: in 1994, I had picked up a pamphlet from Bill Rudge Ministries that convicted me of the words of my mouth because I had picked up the habit of cussing out at the warehouse I was managing when no one esle was around to let off some steam. On the back of the pamphlet after reading scriptures that convicted me of the words of my mouth, I was led to make a covenant with my mouth for which I had applied not to cuss like that ever again out at the warehouse.

The very next day, I was worse than I ever was before. Thoughts in my head were accusing me of not being His, because if I was His, He would have helped me to keep my covenant. I had stopped listening to that train of negative thought or the devil, and just surrendered because I was at my wits ends so I had asked the Lord in prayer why He was not helping me. Then a small still voice spoke: not audible: but it came: :You made the covenant. You said you were going to do it. I made the Covenant with you and I said I am going to do it. All I ask from you is to believe in Me."

I was humbled that day, but the Lord had to still get His message through to me because I did not apply it to reprove the commitment to Christ that I have made, remade, and remade again, and still trying to do the best I can following Him.

I was at two Bible studies not held by my local church at that time. Both were praising the Promise Keepers program. One said it was about men keeping their promises to God and not to men, because they knew man could never be abloe to hold each other accountable because they can't always be available to accomplish that. The other said it was about making promises to men and not to God because they know the danger of making promises they cannot keep.

I did not go to that Promise Keeper convention held in Pittsburgh, but I knew it was about making promises to men & to God which was why I was using the "talent" God has given me to testify against the Promise Keepers program.

In one Bible study, a Catholic/Mason asked me "Isn't a commitment to Christ like a promise? Sure it is."

And that was when the Lord made it clear to me of my doubleminded state and had set me free from all yokes of bondages. He is helping me to be a true witness of Him by testifying of my faith, hope & trust in Him to help me live the christian life by enabling me to continue in His words to follow Him, thus I am living by faith in Him.

Now some would contend with me by saying that commitment means relationship, but from what your quote imply: there is alot of judging of the person's sincerity so I tend to believe commitment here as you are using it means "I will do it" or "She will do it".

So my question here is: was your wife living the christian life religiously? Did she not praise you for being a good husband and a good father? Did she give that credit to the Lord in your life? I do not think she did with all of that compliments flying your way. And yet in light of all of that compliments, did she in her zeal try to be a good wife and a good mother and thus feeling like a failure? Did she give up thinking of herself as a fraud and that she could no longer be around you because she cannot do it?

I do wonder if she had praised God for His work in your life that she would not have that same hope in God for working in her life, but instead, I see defeatism & the futlity of man and woman in the flesh.

Now I apply the commitment in your marriage to be the same as that commitment to Christ: a religious zeal that has burned her out, convinced her for being a fraud, convicted her of not being able to do it, converted her into believing that it is better to be honest with herself and not be around you because she is a failure of a wife and a mother because of it. She has been led to concede defeat & failure to accept her sinful fallen state as a broken vessel that cannot achieve what she seems to think you had achieved by keeping that commitment as a faithful husband & father religiously. In other words, she believes she does not belong.

When I was under that commitment to Christ, I was a deacon twice in my former church and I had quit twice because I felt like a fraud.

Maybe I am wrong to apply my failed religious apostate experiences with how she was trying to live her commitment to you in your marriage, but I share this with you in the hopes that God is ministering to you to discern and to see if she is going about the marriage in the wrong way as you are.

God has joined you together to be one flesh. Now as believers, we are joined to Christ as the bride to the Bridegroom.

All I ask is for you to ask her to stop trying to be religious about the commitment to the marriage to be as "good" as you in being a good wife and a good mother because you love her as God loves her as you are confident that He will finish His work in her as you are about Him finishing His work in you. Try to assure her of God's promise to you and to her that He will help us to be good parents and a good couple by faith in the Son of God in us so that she will stop looking at herself in doing the best she can and look to Him as her Good Shepherd to help her to follow Him by the grace of God & His help.

Needless to say, cussing does not have dominion over me any more. That does not mean I never say it, but it does not have dominion over me as I trust Him to lead me away from temptations & deliver me from the evil one because the power in living the christian life is by faith in the Son of God and not having any confidence in our flesh.

Psalm 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

So may God help you to relay a message of hope to her that in living the christian life, she would trust the Son, Jesus Christ, to do it now since she has admitted defeat.

May your marriage survive by faith in the Son of God as your walk with Him continues in the same since we have been reconciled by God through Jesus Christ by faith so that any good that comes in us & in our lives will also be a work of His grace through faith in Him so that our praise to Him would not be empty nor vain so that sinners may see our hope in Him and be converted and be saved, trusting Him to deliver them from their sins so that sin will no longer have dominion over their lives in following Him.

Tommy4Christ · Dec 29, 2012

Stephen said:

I will pray you both get serious about your salvation, and repent and seek the mercy of God!

This is the huge problem with the church today, anything goes, no crucifying of the flesh as Jesus commands, and repentance and faith, is thrown out the window, replacesd with a watered down liberal gospel telling the sinner they are saved while the live a sinful, worldly life.

You wife need to get her priorities straight, I dont know your heart, but can tell her fruit is rotten, she wants nothing to do with God, yet alone stay committed to her vows, she is in her carnal mind sold under sin.

Unless she repents as the whole city of Nineveh did, she will never have a pure heart before God, and see just how selfish and dead to God she is!

I know this sounds harsh, but this is the normal behavior of most who profess to be a Christian today, and it breaks my heart, and it sholud also break everyone who reads this heart, unless you are dead to God also!

Harsh words, Yes! But spiritual death is harsher!

So get yourself right with God first, through deep godly sorrow and repentance, seek His mercy, be a light to your family and wayward wife, and pray she wakes us, she doesnt need a councelor, she need to repent, die to self and live for God!

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Please repent of this sin, and all others that will kill your soul!

Repentance:

You believe from your heart. You obey to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32) He comes into a clean vessel. A heart made pure by faith (obedience) Acts 15:9) you obey and keep obeying, daily, to keep your heart pure and undefiled from the world! (1 Peter 1:22) That's how it works! Genuine repentance involves humility, brokenness and is a humiliating experience. When the true light of God's word floods into your soul, you see yourself as you are, in rebellion to God! This is what godly sorrow is all about. Deep regret for your sin's, a season of sorrow, leading to salvation! (2 Corinthians 7:10) not getting saved in your disobedience and sin's, but out of them, through true repentance first where the flesh is crucified with Christ, and put to death! (Galatians 2:20) cleansed to receive the Holy Spirit!

Now you got salvation!

allabouthim · Dec 29, 2012

Hi Stephen,
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It sounds like she might have depression symptoms from her health issues, but the things she is saying are typical of those who want out, they are nothing more than excuses to justify their choice. Jesus said the love of many would grow cold. She only possesses a worldly love that cannot last. If you are in Christ, then you can love her with a love that endures ALL things (1 Cor 13). She does not care that love is a command. She is rejecting Christ's authority in her life and your God-given authority as her husband.

Someone needs to have a heart to heart and point out that while there might be short term gratification in her choice, there will be negative consequences and it won't end well. There are numerous examples in the Bible teaching this principle. Thumbing your nose at God isn't wise. Most people don't like this kind of confrontation, but true love speaks the truth.

Just look at the divorce rate for second marriages, so "moving on" obviously isn't the answer. Most importantly someone needs to point out that she will be harming her children...she is putting her own selfish desires above the needs of her own flesh and blood. Google some research and show her the affects of divorce on children. Judith Wallerstein did a 25 year study called the unexpected legacy of divorce. If someone can read this book and still put their children through this, then they would have to be a sociopath. Aside from extreme cases (which most aren't) divorce is never in the best interests of children.

I don't agree with the poster who said there must have been problems in your marriage. In 1 Cor 7 and other verses God seems pretty aware that even if you are a godly person who is married to an unbeliever, they could leave you. Galatians 5 tells you the characteristics of an unbeliever and they include things like strife, adultery, all include following the flesh. Whether you had shortcomings in the marriage (like we all do...no one is perfect) that is grounds for forgiveness, not divorce.

Also be careful when someone tells you that you are "not under bondage." Study that phrase carefully in the Greek, that is not referring to the marriage bond which remains intact if she leaves or divorces you. The MOST it says is "let them leave" there is nothing saying we are free to break our vows which are unconditional. That same passage also says you sanctify your spouse and your children by remaining faithful. It is not loving to turn your back on someone when God says you're their best chance for salvation. The marriage bond is permanent even after divorce (Rom 7:2-3, 1 Cor 7:39, Luke 16:18) so you will not be "free" until one of you dies.

God does do miracles in marriages and He changes people. It might take her leaving and God breaking her through harsh circumstances, but if He can turn Saul into Paul, then He can change your wife, but you have to be willing to be the Eph 5 husband, lay down your life for her and love her for better, for worse, until death do you part. THAT is the greatest testimony of a God honoring life that you can give your children.

BarlyGurl · Dec 29, 2012

I happen to think Enow's message is a good one for man to man, however... I urge the reader to be careful in introspection whether you are convicted by the Holy Sprit or become ensnared by the Subverter. I pray Strength and Wisdom for you now. Stephen.
It is my opinion, in light of the facts presented, that the Lord IS moving in this circumstance as the wife is leaving and the children are remaining with the father. I applaud Stephen for remaining faithful and willing to reconcile, yet this situation LOOKS like a perfect fit for 1 Cor.7:10-16. It seems to me it is entirely up to Stephen at this point to determine if or how long he is determined to WAIT for his wife to be willing to reconcile and he is NOT sinning should he wait a short time or a long time before moving forward, divorce and/or remarry. HIS unbelieving wife has made it CLEAR she has DEPARTED and is making arrangement to MOVE AWAY...She is leaving the sanctifying covering of the marriage... she is entirely God's responsibility now... not Stephen's..HE IS NOT UNDER BONDAGE.

BarlyGurl · Dec 29, 2012

allabouthim;866765>>>Just look at the divorce rate for second marriages said:

Marriage was never intended to revolve around children. A divorced Godly man raising his children in the fear of the LOrd is far more God honoring than being enslaved to unbeliever, how much more glorious to be joined with a beleiving woman to demonstrate before the world what a christian marriiae SHOULD look like? The aupiscious statistics you quote would imply that GOD ISNT the redeemer of our lives and our futures fall to the dictates of th[/U]e unbeleivers in out lives.

I don't agree with the poster who said there must have been problems in your marriage. In 1 Cor 7 and other verses God seems pretty aware that even if you are a godly person who is married to an unbeliever, they could leave you. Galatians 5 tells you the characteristics of an unbeliever and they include things like strife, adultery, all include following the flesh. Whether you had shortcomings in the marriage (like we all do...no one is perfect) that is grounds for forgiveness, not divorce.

Also be careful when someone tells you that you are "not under bondage." Study that phrase carefully in the Greek, that is not referring to the marriage bond which remains intact if she leaves or divorces you. The MOST it says is "let them leave" there is nothing saying we are free to break our vows which are unconditional. That same passage also says you sanctify your spouse and your children by remaining faithful. It is not loving to turn your back on someone when God says you're their best chance for salvation. The marriage bond is permanent even after divorce (Rom 7:2-3, 1 Cor 7:39, Luke 16:18) so you will not be "free" until one of you dies. Your theology is is faulty ma'am, it is legalism and enslaving which does NOT harmonize with the gracious and merciful nature of God. IF there was no cause for divorce EVER God would have said EXACTLY THAT, instead there is extensive treatment regarding various scenarios for what is permitted and what is not. God is our problem solver from the beginning and made provision for us in the SCRIPTURE... to ignore the scripture's whole counsel and presume some divine intervention... is foolishness.

God does do miracles in marriages and He changes people. It might take her leaving and God breaking her through harsh circumstances, but if He can turn Saul into Paul, then He can change your wife, but you have to be willing to be the Eph 5 husband, lay down your life for her and love her for better, for worse, until death do you part. [COLOR="Magenta"[COLOR="Black"]]THAT is the greatest testimony of a God honoring life that you can give your children.[/COLOR]

You are suggesting Stephen enslave himself to an unbeliever... that is catagorically wrong. God is our problem solver from the beginning and made provision for us in the SCRIPTURE... to ignore the scripture's whole counsel and expect some divine intervention... is foolishness.IMO also a ruse of the enmey.[/COLOR]

Stephen · Dec 29, 2012

Are you suggesting I am not?

Tommy4Christ said:

So get yourself right with God first, through deep godly sorrow and repentance, seek His mercy, be a light to your family and wayward wife, and pray she wakes us, she doesnt need a councelor, she need to repent, die to self and live for God!

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Please repent of this sin, and all others that will kill your soul!

Repentance:

You believe from your heart. You obey to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32) He comes into a clean vessel. A heart made pure by faith (obedience) Acts 15:9) you obey and keep obeying, daily, to keep your heart pure and undefiled from the world! (1 Peter 1:22) That's how it works! Genuine repentance involves humility, brokenness and is a humiliating experience. When the true light of God's word floods into your soul, you see yourself as you are, in rebellion to God! This is what godly sorrow is all about. Deep regret for your sin's, a season of sorrow, leading to salvation! (2 Corinthians 7:10) not getting saved in your disobedience and sin's, but out of them, through true repentance first where the flesh is crucified with Christ, and put to death! (Galatians 2:20) cleansed to receive the Holy Spirit!

Now you got salvation!

allabouthim · Dec 29, 2012

BarlyGurl said:

I believe considering the whole counsel of the Word doesn't include cherry-picking a couple of phrases out of context and misapplying them. 1 Cor 7 says nowhere that someone is free to divorce or remarry...you've added your own words/opinions to the text. It says we are not enslaved to serve or obey someone who is estranged. A simple study of the greek words "not under bondage" and "bound" (the word used in 1 Cor 7:39) plainly shows that they are two different words, one is referring to the marriage bond itself and one is simply referring to being enslaved.

The whole counsel of the Word includes explicit statements Jesus made:
"Everyone who divorces and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18

It is foolishness to say that EVERYONE doesn't include every "unbeliever who leaves." This verse alone refutes the adultery "exception clause"...Jesus never once used the word "adultery" as the exception- it was "fornication- premarital sex during Jewish betrothal, that's why it is only found in Matthew which was written to the Jews)

It is foolishness to say that God condones something He says He hates in Mal 2 where he still calls the woman the WIFE by covenant AFTER divorce (and this was a case of an unbeliever who left). God is still holding the man in Mal 2 accountable for his wife and isn't hearing his prayers or receiving his offerings.

It is foolishness to say that God is a schizophrenic because he commands us to keep our vows and not to call them a mistake (Eccl 5). Our vows are unconditional and do not include "except for adultery or abandonment."

It is foolishness to say that the same God who forbids Christians from going before the "unjust" and using the civil courts (1Cor6) would allow divorce via these same courts.

It is sad that you mock who God is when you scoff about His "divine intervention" like someone shouldn't actually walk by faith (proving their true faith which obeys) and He isn't capable of restoring marriages and families... The "mercy and love" you speak of is what one shows by NOT divorcing and by remaining reconcilable with someone who divorces them (the only option given in 1 Cor 7:10-11).

Jesus told us not to cast stones using the very example of an adulteress and God told Hosea to go and love His wife again after she was unfaithful with many lovers. That is what a godly husband does. It appears that your position is the legalistic one, you can write your spouse off for their sins, but then expect God to forgive you for yours. I would suggest meditating on the parable of the unforgiving servant (Matt 18). Strong warning for those who show no mercy.

That is how I harmonize scripture. The statistics I referenced are very real...decades of research that is already proven. God knows what is best for our children. God has already said what a godly marriage looks like...Eph 5. God always remains faithful and never takes another bride.

Stephen, God warns us that there will be many teachers who will say what our itching ears want to hear and there is no shortage of them today on this topic... I pray that you will seek God's will.

BarlyGurl · Dec 29, 2012

allabouthim said:

I believe considering the whole counsel of the Word doesn't include cherry-picking a couple of phrases out of context and misapplying them. 1 Cor 7 says nowhere that someone is free to divorce or remarry...you've added your own words/opinions to the text. It says we are not enslaved to serve or obey someone who is estranged. A simple study of the greek words "not under bondage" and "bound" (the word used in 1 Cor 7:39) plainly shows that they are two different words, one is referring to the marriage bond itself and one is simply referring to being enslaved.

The whole counsel of the Word includes explicit statements Jesus made:
"Everyone who divorces and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18 Right because God's design if for Believing men to be enslaved to THE MARRIAGE BOND, whilst the unbelieving woman lives her unbelieving life apart in total disregard, perhaps with many lovers or a new marriage and that a believing women having been cast aside by unbelieving husband's are expected to live 'til death as married to a man who provides NO Provision, Protection, LOVE, Affection or Duty? YOUR theology is self righteous legalism possessing not a shred of the forgiveness and mercy of God.

It is foolishness to say that EVERYONE doesn't include every "unbeliever who leaves." This verse alone refutes the adultery "exception clause"...Jesus never once used the word "adultery" as the exception- it was "fornication- premarital sex during Jewish betrothal, that's why it is only found in Matthew which was written to the Jews) I am not especially interested in YOUR cherry picking of the scriptures to suit your purpose. The luke 16:18 is a verse contained in the context of Jesus Speaking to the PHARISEES about their legalism and lack of unterstanding regarding HIS coming preaching of the coming Kingdom and the condition of their hearts... being only concerned with the law. THE kicker is... the Pharisses didn't get it and I am fearing it likely you won't either... but do TRY... in all sincerity I pray our graciousl Lord Bless you this way.

It is foolishness to say that God condones something He says He hates in Mal 2 where he still calls the woman the WIFE by covenant AFTER divorce (and this was a case of an unbeliever who left). God is still holding the man in Mal 2 accountable for his wife and isn't hearing his prayers or receiving his offerings. You are making it as if men are to BE God. GOD is GOD, HE instructs man. Further, Malachi is a PICTURE of God the father and his "marital" relationship with Israel, and there is no disputing God hate's divorce... but he recognizes there is such a thing as an INNOCENT PARTY... and therefore has made provision for it.

It is foolishness to say that God is a schizophrenic because he commands us to keep our vows and not to call them a mistake (Eccl 5). Our vows are unconditional and do not include "except for adultery or abandonment." False, the vows are conditional and DO include adultery clauses but they are worded this way..."Forsaking ALL others", thus when a spouse decides to disregard the vows... they have broken the covenant.... according to OLD TESTAMENT LAW... they should be stoned to death... but our NEW COVENANT SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST is merciful AND GRACIOUS AND DESIRES THAT NONE SHOULD PERISH. Further since marriage does require the participation of TWO people, abandonment IS a just cause, there is no such thing as a marriage of ONE. It IS foolish to say God is schizophrenic and I did not say any such thing... it is YOU who said it and attempt to attribute such to me... Let the audience note. God is not a God of confusion and while I am capable of hammering away at this legalistic theology, I think there is enough for a spirit filled reader to discern...

It is foolishness to say that the same God who forbids Christians from going before the "unjust" and using the civil courts (1Cor6) would allow divorce via these same courts. GOd does not FORBID Christians from using civil courts... I see you have an diverse misunderstanding of scripture... at this revealation I think best to just leave you to your error... if it is such that your husband permits.

It is sad that you mock who God is when you scoff about His "divine intervention" like someone shouldn't actually walk by faith (proving their true faith which obeys) and He isn't capable of restoring marriages and families... The "mercy and love" you speak of is what one shows by NOT divorcing and by remaining reconcilable with someone who divorces them (the only option given in 1 Cor 7:10-11). You are making some fairly strong accusations here suggesting I mock, scoff or lack faith, I will excuse you this time as I clearly see where the your problem lies.

Jesus told us not to cast stones using the very example of an adulteress and God told Hosea to go and love His wife again after she was unfaithful with many lovers. That is what a godly husband does. It appears that your position is the legalistic one, you can write your spouse off for their sins, but then expect God to forgive you for yours. I would suggest meditating on the parable of the unforgiving servant (Matt 18). Strong warning for those who show no mercy. Use of GUILT manipulation noted

That is how I harmonize scripture. The statistics I referenced are very real...decades of research that is already proven. God knows what is best for our children. Right it is definately best for children to to see a believing spouse be enslaved to an unbeliever, so they can fully appreciate and learn by example what marriage is. God has already said what a godly marriage looks like...Eph 5. God always remains faithful and never takes another bride.YOU are wrongly trying to equate the CHURCH BODY (BRIDE) AND WOMAN BEING BELEIVING OR UNBELIEVING... THAT IS WRONG. God never takes another bride yet ALL individuals are FREE to be "a part of" or APART from the BRIDE which is the church.

allabouthim · Dec 29, 2012

Responses below in red (maybe we should take this to another thread, I don't want to highjack Stephen's thread).

BarlyGurl said:

allabouthim said:

I believe considering the whole counsel of the Word doesn't include cherry-picking a couple of phrases out of context and misapplying them. 1 Cor 7 says nowhere that someone is free to divorce or remarry...you've added your own words/opinions to the text. It says we are not enslaved to serve or obey someone who is estranged. A simple study of the greek words "not under bondage" and "bound" (the word used in 1 Cor 7:39) plainly shows that they are two different words, one is referring to the marriage bond itself and one is simply referring to being enslaved.

The whole counsel of the Word includes explicit statements Jesus made:
"Everyone who divorces and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18 Right because God's design if for Believing men to be enslaved to THE MARRIAGE BOND, whilst the unbelieving woman lives her unbelieving life apart in total disregard, perhaps with many lovers or a new marriage and that a believing women having been cast aside by unbelieving husband's are expected to live 'til death as married to a man who provides NO Provision, Protection, LOVE, Affection or Duty? YOUR theology is self righteous legalism possessing not a shred of the forgiveness and mercy of God.

I believe writing off a spouse as unworthy and unredeemable does not show the mercy and forgiveness of God. His love is long-suffering and He says to be imitators of Him and to love one another as He has loved us.

No, I don't think a true believer will have to remain single the rest of their life, I believe their life will be restored once their faith is proven. God says we will suffer for doing what is right. You seem to disagree. All of the prophets in scripture went through some pretty difficult trials. If you are the elect, scripture is pretty clear that you WILL suffer unjustly. God will release them either through the death of that spouse or their repentance- but it won't require them sinning by breaking their own vows.

True faith doesn't look at the circumstances, it keeps its eyes on God. Joseph said what you meant for evil, God meant for good. Bad things happen for a reason. Jesus could have chosen not to do the hard thing for us. It didn't look like there was any hope for Him when He got on that cross. But He loved us and He loved God more than Himself. Your theology is focused on self. The gospel says we must die to self to find life.

I think it takes great humility to lay one's life down for their spouse. It takes a self-righteous attitude to say they are not good enough and never will be. It is only by the grace of God and not any of my own "goodness" that I'm on the path that I am- I take zero credit.

It is foolishness to say that EVERYONE doesn't include every "unbeliever who leaves." This verse alone refutes the adultery "exception clause"...Jesus never once used the word "adultery" as the exception- it was "fornication- premarital sex during Jewish betrothal, that's why it is only found in Matthew which was written to the Jews) I am not especially interested in YOUR cherry picking of the scriptures to suit your purpose. The luke 16:18 is a verse contained in the context of Jesus Speaking to the PHARISEES about their legalism and lack of unterstanding regarding HIS coming preaching of the coming Kingdom and the condition of their hearts... being only concerned with the law. THE kicker is... the Pharisses didn't get it and I am fearing it likely you won't either... but do TRY... in all sincerity I pray our graciousl Lord Bless you this way.

This was Jesus' teaching on marriage. It is repeated in Mark and Matthew, when they asked if a man could divorce for any reason, Jesus gave an unequivocal NO. Paul said he received the gospel by direct revelation from Christ, so Paul knew that "everyone who divorces and marries another commits adultery." You make Jesus and Paul contradict themselves and each other. Proper hermeneutics harmonizes all the verses together. Jesus said you nullify the commandments of God for the sake of your traditions. You nullify Luke 16:18 because it doesn't fit your preconceived conclusion. Every statement God makes is true including Luke 16:18.

It is foolishness to say that God condones something He says He hates in Mal 2 where he still calls the woman the WIFE by covenant AFTER divorce (and this was a case of an unbeliever who left). God is still holding the man in Mal 2 accountable for his wife and isn't hearing his prayers or receiving his offerings. You are making it as if men are to BE God. GOD is GOD, HE instructs man. Further, Malachi is a PICTURE of God the father and his "marital" relationship with Israel, and there is no disputing God hate's divorce... but he recognizes there is such a thing as an INNOCENT PARTY... and therefore has made provision for it.

There are no scriptures that talk about the "innocent party." In Matthew 5:32 it says the woman who is put away (without just cause) is committing adultery if she remarries.

It is foolishness to say that God is a schizophrenic because he commands us to keep our vows and not to call them a mistake (Eccl 5). Our vows are unconditional and do not include "except for adultery or abandonment." False, the vows are conditional and DO include adultery clauses but they are worded this way..."Forsaking ALL others", thus when a spouse decides to disregard the vows... they have broken the covenant.... according to OLD TESTAMENT LAW... they should be stoned to death... but our NEW COVENANT SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST is merciful AND GRACIOUS AND DESIRES THAT NONE SHOULD PERISH. Further since marriage does require the participation of TWO people, abandonment IS a just cause, there is no such thing as a marriage of ONE. It IS foolish to say God is schizophrenic and I did not say any such thing... it is YOU who said it and attempt to attribute such to me... Let the audience note. God is not a God of confusion and while I am capable of hammering away at this legalistic theology, I think there is enough for a spirit filled reader to discern...

If we make a vow that says we will forsake all others, that is not the same as saying I will forsake all others as long as you forsake all others, or I will love you for better for worse unless that "worse" includes adultery or abandonment. Covenants can be violated but they remain in effect. There isn't a single covenant in scripture that ended by anything other than death. You do realize that your entire religion is based on the fact that Jesus had to DIE in order to bring about a NEW covenant?

It is foolishness to say that the same God who forbids Christians from going before the "unjust" and using the civil courts (1Cor6) would allow divorce via these same courts. GOd does not FORBID Christians from using civil courts... I see you have an diverse misunderstanding of scripture... at this revealation I think best to just leave you to your error... if it is such that your husband permits.

Yes, He does (this is already settled by God's own words):

1 Cor 6
"Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, 6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren."

True faith is willing to be wronged and defrauded (like scripture says the elect will be) and trusts God, not man, to avenge them.

It is sad that you mock who God is when you scoff about His "divine intervention" like someone shouldn't actually walk by faith (proving their true faith which obeys) and He isn't capable of restoring marriages and families... The "mercy and love" you speak of is what one shows by NOT divorcing and by remaining reconcilable with someone who divorces them (the only option given in 1 Cor 7:10-11). You are making some fairly strong accusations here suggesting I mock, scoff or lack faith, I will excuse you this time as I clearly see where the your problem lies.

Jesus told us not to cast stones using the very example of an adulteress and God told Hosea to go and love His wife again after she was unfaithful with many lovers. That is what a godly husband does. It appears that your position is the legalistic one, you can write your spouse off for their sins, but then expect God to forgive you for yours. I would suggest meditating on the parable of the unforgiving servant (Matt 18). Strong warning for those who show no mercy. Use of GUILT manipulation noted

That is how I harmonize scripture. The statistics I referenced are very real...decades of research that is already proven. God knows what is best for our children. Right it is definately best for children to to see a believing spouse be enslaved to an unbeliever, so they can fully appreciate and learn by example what marriage is. God has already said what a godly marriage looks like...Eph 5. God always remains faithful and never takes another bride.YOU are wrongly trying to equate the CHURCH BODY (BRIDE) AND WOMAN BEING BELEIVING OR UNBELIEVING... THAT IS WRONG. God never takes another bride yet ALL individuals are FREE to be "a part of" or APART from the BRIDE which is the church.

BarlyGurl · Dec 30, 2012

allabouthim said:

Responses below in red (maybe we should take this to another thread, I don't want to highjack Stephen's thread).

Sorry allabout,
Your theology is deeply flawed and as I said previously I CAN hammer it from Genesis to Revelations but it is pointless as you have stated you believe you are right. Admittedly, I was once bound in chains to similiar false teaching, shackled in mind to legalism and false piety, which is truly idolatry... But the Lord Jesus set me FREE, and bound my wounds, healed my heart, filled my spirit and spoke LIFE into me... and absolutely NO attempt by you will convince me to be enslaved to that wrong-thinking again.
I warned you once about your evil surmising regarding what I am, do or think and I will not allow that to go any further... that means... going forward... check yourself carefully before pressing the send button.
The innocent parties here in the forum, have a savior, he is JESUS... and the unblievers who have departed, they have the same JESUS available to them... the innocent parties... we are not JESUS and we will let JESUS be JESUS.

Enow · Dec 30, 2012

allabouthim said:

God will be judging His House first. Since He led Paul to give this instruction regarding an unrepentant brother, I fail to see how letting an unrepentant wife goes is not part of His will.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Why would God permit a divorce of an unrepentant wife or husband?

1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

If this be true for the sin of fornication, how an it be less for the sin of adultery? If such an act would promote repentance, then ignoring the offense is hardly what God would do & neither the husband.

The fact that there is a sense of loving God more than the wife is paramount for leaving to attend the Marriage Supper because she could very well be left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come....24For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. 25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

However, in Stephen's case, he has described a defeated burned out wife who believes she does not belong by his side as failing to match his zeal and his faithfulness in keeping his commitment in the marriage and thus seemingly to Christ.

Now if she is an unbeliever, I can see why she does not feel like she belongs.

Seems Stephen needs to reassess his walk and witness of the Lord in his life to determine with His help, if it needs to be changed so that his wife does not see christianity as a religion of doing the best you can by keeping that commitment, but of a reconciled relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ and mayhap she will see her relationship with her husband as something not something to be striving to accomplish in being good wife and being a good mother, but simply acknowledging that she is his wife and she is a mother, no matter just as believers are His, no matter what.

So when God "writes off" a believer when He judges His House, it is not a disowning of the one bought with a price and sealed as His, but a chastening as a father would towards his own son so that when the prodigal son returns, he will find that he is still son because he has been bought with a price & sealed as His.

One thing is certain about marriage in that firstfruit of the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; 30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; 31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

Thus leaving an unbelieving wife behind or a believing but unrepentant wife behind will be necessary for any believing and abiding husband in the Lord to attend the Marriage Supper, entrusting his wife to His care that is left behind as he will no longer be responsible for her care.

So if a church is asked to excommunicate an unrepentant believer, I fail to see how God would apply Malachi 2nd chapter to an unrepentant and unbelieving wife for a husband to remain with her.

What Paul said here was of his own instruction and not as a commandment from the Lord;

1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? 17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

That is to say: no one should think they are better than the one that had sinned, backslidden, and yet repented. It is also obvious that it takes God's love to reprove to bring about repentance rather than not to reprove in hoping for repentance.

Enow · Dec 30, 2012

Tommy4Christ said:

Show scriptures about the marriage vows. There are none. Man added them to God's covenant of marriage and I dare say that it could be the very reasons why marriages are failing because it has become religious, judging one another and yet giving grace to their own shortcomings. That is the act of hypocrisey and degradation.

Stephen will need to return to the milk of the word to see the truth of what his wife needs, to see the simplicity of the gospel of our hope in Christ, then so be it, but your religious zeal has been undertaken and proven to be not of the Lord.

That proves you need to return to the milk of the word yourself, bro.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Stephen is our brother just as you are, but I see a religious zealism that is blinding you both to HOW we are to live the christian life & that is by faith in the Son of God. I was there, brothers, in being double-minded when doing the best I can by trying to keep that commitment to follow Him & it was a heavy burden & a hard yoke to carry until Christ has set me entirely free to rest in Him & all of His promises to me all the time that He will help me to follow Him.

All that He asks from us is to believe Him to be our Good Shepherd all the time as He will finish the work He has begun in us just as He has asked us to believe Him as our Saviour to stay resting in Him that we are saved so we can be witnesses of the Son & not of ourselves by the deeds of the law or any other boast of the confidence in the flesh.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Stephen · Dec 30, 2012

Thank you all for the dialogue....I don't feel anyone is hijacking the thread as those posts pertain to my situation. As far as feeling overwhelmed or overburdened by my "zeal" or commitment to His commands I have heard that from my wife. Could that be the case I suppose. Just never been told that in counseling. To add to that we both were raised in secular homes and we are the only siblings that attend church and profess our Faith. Our parents and siblings consist of alcoholics, lesbian, and so forth.
We both have learned a long time ago to be careful not to push people away because of our faith but to live our lives as examples of His Grace and let that speak for itself. Also, to be prepared to speak when the opportunity arises. So, my point here is that we haven't lived a works based RELIGION we are saved by His Grace and we apply to our marriage.
So, what I know my wife says is the reason for wanting to leave the marriage is vague and according to her its my personality and its too strong for her. She says she wants more authority and I feel like every decision made in this home is done by sitting down and discussing it. If I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other then I step away and she makes the call.
As far as her faith goes I only know for the last several years she has studied less, prayed less, and doesn't fellowship at all now. I have been very cautious about how I express my concern to her about this as not to offend or push away. I have been in those shoes before as has many believers. When I was there I didn't like anyone pointing it out to me that I have lost my fire...it just turned me off even more. So, I am careful with this issue in regards to my wife. My thought was that I continue in my faith, fellowship, prayer..etc. and she will come around.
Sadly she has not and things haven't gotten worse.
On my covenant...there is a lot of debate about when a believing spouse is free to divorce and remarry so I understand some of the back and forth here and welcome it for my own edification. I haven't done a lot of study on it yet. Mainly because at this point I feel led by the Spirit to stay the course and have no intensions on divorcing.
I really appreciate all of the prayers and wisdom shared please continue.

Enow · Dec 30, 2012

allabouthim said:

Still looks like Babygurl's discernment is correct since Jesus was again, addressing the Pharisees of their outward appearance of being righteous.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. 18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

The standard of Jesus is higher than the works of the law:

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

That proves the need for the Saviour.

However, the reference regarding your contention is here:

Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

The cause of fornication is the excuse to put away a wife which would usually be found out at the beginning of the marriage, however, adultery is still a sin as mentioned here and to bind someone still to an adulterer but yet one can be released for the cause of fornication does not make any sense at all.

So your point about an ever binding marriage regardless of adultery is not sound.

Stephen · Dec 30, 2012

Enow thank you for your posts. I'm not sure what I have said to make you think I am living my faith on works. I have a good understanding of GRACE. We operated early on in our marriage with the "legalism" in our faith and learned the folly in it. I love my wife even more than ever even though these things are happening in our marriage. I am not her judge I am her husband and I love her unconditionally. She knows this.
As of right now she is still in the home and I continue to be her husband showing her my love. I do not exchange harsh words with her in fact I feel led not to bring up issues unless she is wanting to talk...I am at peace here.
This why our church home of 15 years has been one that to many is too liberal simply because many of show up to church wearing jeans, t shirts, long hair and ear rings on men, far from judgmental.

Enow · Dec 30, 2012

Stephen said:

You may wish to reconsider it some more because of the next quote.

That may be the case, but there is such a thing as being double-minded in our walk with Him. I wasn't trying to save myself by keeping that commitment to follow Him, but yet, I was being like the Galatians in being foolish as if I can finish by the flesh what was begun with the Spirit by doing the best I can in following Him.

Do note that emboldened highlighted portion in your quote.

That should tell you that this route is not working when it comes to within the home. It bis one thing to be sensitive to those on the outside, but it should look to you now that it can't be that way on the inside especially concering the kind of homes you both had grown up in without authority.

So it may be that your wife is tired of the lack of authority and structure in the home. She needs more from you. She is giving you permission to be more authoritive.

That's excersing some authority there, but as they say.. in for a penny, in for a pound. You are going to need to lean on Him for more of Christ's love for discipline in the home and structure as well. Gid does not feel that way about what goes on in His House, and so you are going to need to excerise Christ's love for discipline in hoping that it will bring about repentance.

Look at how God will judge His House and why you & your wife needs to look to Him for help in being submissive to Him.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Having that goal to be found abiding in Him & His words should be the race that you & your wife should run in your household by looking to the author and finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight and sin, because of this truth below.

Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

[/quote]I really appreciate all of the prayers and wisdom shared please continue.[/quote]

Some verses to consider since your wife is looking for authority:

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Do lean on Him to do this though, and yet seeing this in excersing authority over your wife is being submissive to Him (the Word of God) just as your wife being submissive to you is being submissive to Him (the Word of God).

Jenjoy · Dec 30, 2012

I am so sorry. I will pray for your family.

Stephen · Dec 30, 2012

I think your misunderstanding. She wants the authority and is offended when I try to exercise authority. WE have lived most our lives together with a structure and she is now in rebellion against it all. Simple things like bed time for the boys... now all of a sudden its out the window. She is a career woman climbing the ladder so I don't know if this is part of the problem or not. But I can tell you she is rebelling against me. In turn I love her back . If I did what you recommend I would get even more push back and she would probably leave tonight.

I do appreciate your posts and the inward reflection it stirs. I am not a perfect man by no means and am always seeking His shaping of me into the image of Christ.

BarlyGurl · Dec 30, 2012

Enow said:

[So it may be that your wife is tired of the lack of authority and structure in the home. She needs more from you. She is giving you permission to be more authoritive.

No Enow... I think you are mistaken... I think what Stephen meant here about the authority issue was to say... "His wife is wanting more authority for herself and is rejecting Stephens authority- not that she is wanting Stephen to demonstrate more authority". What he is indicatating is her rebellion.... that she is moving away from the authority she once willingly submitted to and enjoyed. As a woman... that is a glaring red flag as in most cases... feeling overwhelmed, overburderned and unworthy would make most women cling to and appreciate authority for the burden it removes from us.

Need prayer for marriage

Stephen

Guest

Enow

Banned

Tommy4Christ

Banned

allabouthim

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BarlyGurl

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