Is fellowship possible between Calvinists and Arminians?

[zone]

You know what is even a better thing to do? Let a calvanist and arminian or anyone else NOT defent their fiath. we do not need to defend anything, if it is truth, God will defend it for us. But let us with open hearts try to figure out what the other truly believes. I think as you hinted at earlier. there are many different types on both sides.. Some diehard, and some more laxed. or however you want to classify it.

hi EG!
Happy New Year!

...that's all fine...except, which Gospel is being presented to suffering sinners who don't know anything?
we can hash this stuff out only because at some point The Lord opened the scriptures to us....what about the blind man who is suffering and knows there's something wrong (he wants to be saved)?

is what he is hearing from the various camps something like any of this?:

"forsake all sin [by your own whiteknuckle power]...then God will have Mercy"? < how a blind sinner does this without knowing the Law (and therefore sin) is beyond me.

"don't forsake any sin, since you're good to go no matter what"?

"obey every jot and tittle of The Law"?

"ignore the Law completely because you're in a different dispensation"?

"God wants you to have your best life now, you create your future by your words"?

Ad infinitum.

it seems to me we first and foremost have to look at this, and actually believe it:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

then we need to know what that Gospel is.

it says the Gospel IS the power of God (for salvation!)

so, what is the Gospel (which is the Power of God)?

this is where the rubber meets the road and is why we have divisions.
it's why we have denominations, and arguments.
it's why so many people are either giving up, not having heard the true Gospel...or are lying to themselves about their own righteousness...or are continuing in the same lifestyle they had before they heard whatever they heard.

arg
love you bud
zone

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Many Calvinists embrace an idea dubbed "Lordship Salvation", the belief that a believer should surrender every area of their lives to Christ, to guard against licentious living. When I was an Arminian, it was the the subject of Lordship Salvation that bridged the gap between myself and various Calvinists that I encountered thus providing common ground to build a firm foundation on which we could start and maintain a healthy and respectful relationship.

It is my recommendation to any Calvinist or Arminian looking to extend an olive branch to the other, Lordship Salvation is most likely the place to research and open the lines of communication.

the problem is how one does this.

Do we do it by the law (as the jews did) do we do it by adding to the law things which are not there in hopes that if we do not do this, we will not be tempted to break the real law (example. no drinking, if I do not drink, I will not be tempted to get drunk) Which again the jews did.

The jews proved these ideas failed miserably. yet in many denomination churches (on both sides) I see us doing these same things.

Instead of Lordship salvation. why do we not practice Abba Father (or Daddy) salvation?

Romans 8:15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “ Abba! Father!”

 

[Crossfire]

The same goes the other way. Everyone who believes in justification by faith alone and the eternal security of the soul based on God and his promise are licentious and teaches a freedom to sin.

Not necessarily. As I've stated before, I do believe in Eternal Security. However, I do not believe in OSAS as it is taught by most today. In fact, I have encountered several Arminians who also embrace Eternal Security yet reject OSAS also.

As for Perserverance of the Saints, it depends on one's own personal perspective / description as to whether or not I would agree with them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi EG!
Happy New Year!

...that's all fine...except, which Gospel is being presented to suffering sinners who don't know anything?
we can hash this stuff out only because at some point The Lord opened the scriptures to us....what about the blind man who is suffering and knows there's something wrong (he wants to be saved)?

is what he is hearing from the various camps something like any of this?:

"forsake all sin [by your own whiteknuckle power]...then God will have Mercy"? < how a blind sinner does this without knowing the Law (and therefore sin) is beyond me.

"don't forsake any sin, since you're good to go no matter what"?

"obey every jot and tittle of The Law"?

"ignore the Law completely because you're in a different dispensation"?

"God wants you to have your best life now, you create your future by your words"?

Ad infinitum.

it seems to me we first and foremost have to look at this, and actually believe it:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

then we need to know what that Gospel is.

it says the Gospel IS the power of God (for salvation!)

so, what is the Gospel (which is the Power of God)?

this is where the rubber meets the road and is why we have divisions.
it's why we have denominations, and arguments.
it's why so many people are either giving up, not having heard the true Gospel...or are lying to themselves about their own righteousness...or are continuing in the same lifestyle they had before they heard whatever they heard.

arg
love you bud
zone

Happy new Year to you to sis.

I agree. all those things are bad. Although I would disagree it is what separates and makes denomination. We both agree on the same gospel. yet we are completely apart on our perspective churches. I think many denomination teach the same gospel. But differ in other areas.

But I also agree wholeheartedly. The gospel is what is important. for it is the only way one can get to heaven.. Examples such as you gave sicken me. and is not the ways of God. yet I have heard them so many times. And people wonder why the world hates us, they think we are arrogant, judgmental, and yes, even hypocritical people (our sins are always found out, even the sins we deny are sins at all. such as pride) So people see us judge them for being prostituted, Drunks. Sexually immoral. porn addicts etc. but we can't see our own pride, our own self absorption and other sins we have in our lives. and we expect them to listen to us. Jesus did not sin, yet he did not talk to people this way.

Jesus came to love people. not to judge them. he was the example the church should follow. yet the church seems to have strayed from this point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not necessarily. As I've stated before, I do believe in Eternal Security. However, I do not believe in OSAS as it is taught by most today. In fact, I have encountered several Arminians who also embrace Eternal Security yet reject OSAS also.

which is why I said we should get away from terms. I believe in both. We are eternally secure by the grace of God. and at the same time, Once we are saved, we are always saved, again by the grace of God.

Yes. MANY people turn these terms into "free grace" and think all we have to do is say a "sinners prayer" and we are saved fo4rever. and are free to live anyway we want, and how dare uny one judge us for any sin we commit (I do not agree with this at all by the way, nore does my church) but that does not mean the basic foundation of the term is false.

As for Perserverance of the Saints, it depends on one's own personal perspective / description as to whether or not I would agree with them.

I do not like this term. If I was an outsider. I would think it means a sinner saved by grace will persevere and keep his salvation based on the fact of his own work of persevering, and not because of the promise of Christ. based on his love and his death.

which again, is why I think we should get off terms.

 

[zone]

Perhaps the other great trouble with believers is our narcissism. We want to make the Bible and life and just everything all about us.
When the reality is it's all about God.
And only about us insofar as He loves and chooses us, and then we're right back at 'it's all about God'.
love,
ellie

 

[Red33]

And this really helps This just goes to show what the OP said. and why we can never listen to each other. responses like this are based on pride and arrogance. and do not help anyone at all.

It's always pride and arrogance to blame when you are not grounded in the truth. With a good pastor-teacher someday, you'll get there and you won't be so double-minded about so many things. Keep hoping.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's always pride and arrogance to blame when you are not grounded in the truth. With a good pastor-teacher someday, you'll get there and you won't be so double-minded about so many things. Keep hoping.

You will never learn will you?

Maybe one day when you remove your pride. and seek God and his wonderful truth, your eyes will be open to so many Good things God has in store for you.

PS. If you think defending yourself with an attack, and showing further your pride. you are going to get someone to listen to you. you are sorely mistaken.. Your pride has shown in both posts.

 

[zone]

.....God and his wonderful truth.....

hi bud.

maybe Jose could start a new thread:

Re: Is fellowship possible between <pretribbers> and <everybody else>?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi bud.

maybe Jose could start a new thread:

Re: Is fellowship possible between <pretribbers> and <everybody else>?

lol, I fellowship with alot of pretribbers. So I would say the answer is yes (most people I know are pre-tribers) I was once one myself

However. from the few I see on here. I would agree with you, it would be hard!

 

[BarlyGurl]

It's always pride and arrogance to blame when you are not grounded in the truth. With a good pastor-teacher someday, you'll get there and you won't be so double-minded about so many things. Keep hoping.

That's it red shake yer finger at him!!!

 

[rauleetoe]

I am much inclined to agree. I've met very few Calvinists who weren't prideful and condemning.

yes ive ceased communication with several calvinists because, like their hero John Calvin himself..have a a disdain for all who oppose their sacred cow of divine determinism and double predestination...here especially..thats why i call this site calvinist chat or charismatic chat..because those two groups took pver this site..

 

[rauleetoe]

That's it red shake yer finger at him!!!

Redtent is just a dramaqueen just like eternallygratefull..a big disyraction that needs to go away..please do not encourage him.

 

[zone]

yes ive ceased communication with several calvinists because, like their hero John Calvin himself..have a a disdain for all who oppose their sacred cow of divine determinism and double predestination...here especially..thats why i call this site calvinist chat or charismatic chat..because those two groups took pver this site..

how ironic

 

[Red33]

You will never learn will you?

Maybe one day when you remove your pride. and seek God and his wonderful truth, your eyes will be open to so many Good things God has in store for you.

PS. If you think defending yourself with an attack, and showing further your pride. you are going to get someone to listen to you. you are sorely mistaken.. Your pride has shown in both posts.

Call it what you will, for God knows what is in both your heart and in mine.

 

[Red33]

Redtent is just a dramaqueen just like eternallygratefull..a big disyraction that needs to go away..please do not encourage him.

Don't blame Redtent but you can put the blame on me, Red33. BTW - Your slip is showing.

 

[rauleetoe]

Do you think it is unholy to give a person grace when they have sinned and don't deserve it?

quit being sarcastic..nobody in their own.right deserves it..if you are sincere about asking for forgivenss..God honors that...now if you just throw up the grace card everytime you blatantly sin..yand you willou are toying with God...which is serious stuff

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Redtent is just a dramaqueen just like eternallygratefull..a big disyraction that needs to go away..please do not encourage him.

wow, I am a drama queen? lol.. Thanks for showing your true colors!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Call it what you will, for God knows what is in both your heart and in mine.

Yes he does. And he tells us against doing what you did.

You did not counter what he said, or offer explanation of why you disagree. you outright attacked him. This is not from God..

 

[zone]

Re: Is fellowship possible between Calvinists and Arminians?

Dana doubts it