Catholic's Arent Real Christians

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A

agirlandherguitar

Guest
#1
#1
Hello everyone!

I'm struggling with this "Catholic's Aren't Christians" topic with a friend and I want to get your opinion on it!

First of all, I'm not Catholic and neither is my friend. We're just Christian (some may say Evangelical or something). Anyways, we were discussing Catholisism one day and she made the comment that Catholic's aren't real Christians because they believe that works will get you into heaven, are only saved if you are baptized, exalt priests, the pope and Mary and that you must confess your sins to a priest and not to Jesus because you are not worthy to do so and many other things that don't line up with Biblical teaching.

Now, I agree that there are a lot of things that Catholics do that don't seem to line up with the Bible (a lot of Christians do things that don't line up with the Bible) and the whole Hail Mary's, rosaries and other things seem very cumbersome but I wouldn't go as far to say that they aren't real Christians because they do things a different way. They believe in Jesus and honor him above all else, am I right? I'm not sure how to talk to my friend about this matter because she seems pretty set in her belief that Catholics aren't Christians and I don't agree with her.

If there are any Catholics here I'd like to hear your opinion on this so I can share your thoughts with my friend.

Thanks!
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#2
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#2
I am Roman Catholic and here is what we believe. [Those who take away something here should not be considered true catholics]

Also Link here ---> What We Believe

"Our profession of faith begins with God, for God is the First and the Last, the beginning and the end of everything. The Credo begins with God the Father, for the Father is the first divine person of the Most Holy Trinity; our Creed begins with the creation of heaven and earth, for creation is the beginning and the foundation of all God's works."

---the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 198
Catholic belief is succinctly expressed in the profession of faith or credo called the Nicene Creed:

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
 
A

agirlandherguitar

Guest
#3
#3
That seems pretty much what we both believe. Although she is getting really caught up in the "worship of Mary and the Pope and Saints over God" thing though... which may be only speculation on her behalf.
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#4
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#4
It is, we ask Mary and the saints to pray for us, we believe they are alive. But there are some who will worship them out of ignorance.
 
A

agirlandherguitar

Guest
#5
#5
Hmm. Your comment has inspired me to make a new topic!
 
M

megaman125

Guest
#6
#6
There's nothing in the Bible that even remotely suggests we should be praying to Mary or to anyone who isn't God. The Bible says quite the opposite.

As for worshiping Mary, what else could the phrase "Hail Mary..." mean? Also, at the Vatican they have what they believe is the dead skull of Mary and they encased it in gold. How is this not worshiping false idols? Again, there's nothing in the Bible that even remotely suggests we should do this stuff, we only find passages that say the opposite.
 
K

Kefa52

Guest
#7
#7
OK. I was raised as a good Catholic Boy and this is a good discussion for me. I was forced through confirmation with no clue ( I wasn't ready), other than keeping a bunch of ornery nuns off my back.

OK.....Here is my concern. [I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.]

Even Satan believe that.^ At what point to you accept Jesus as your personal Savior?

I am not being smart or trying to offend anyone. I am sorry if this offends anyone.. I am just being honest.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#8
#8
I grew up Catholic, have formal Catholic education through the masters degree. I ministered in the catholic Church professionally for nearly 10 years. My wife and I were told in no uncertain terms that we must not be members of any denomination. You can see my website or my posts; they will speak conclusively that I am a member of the Body of Christ, and not Catholic.

The Catholic Church officially does not approve of the worship of Mary. Technically, they "venerate" her, which means they speak of her in glowing, and often exaggerated beyond Scripture, terms. They also pray to her, thinking Jesus is too far wonderful to listen to anyone less than His mother. But they provide little correction for members who get carried away with the rhetoric and example and so do worship her. About the skull someone mentioned: that is impossible, as they teach officially that Mary's body was taken to heaven (i.e. raptured at death). This is a perfect example of how things get messed up because of the rhetoric and example.

There is nothing wrong with having a pope, anymore than there is having a president. A big organization needs some government. The problem in either, is when people trust a government more than they trust God. The Catholics teach the pope cannot make a mistake on matters of faith and morals, i.e., as he hears from God. I can show you some contradictions between popes, proving this belief wrong. Yet, if you are a Catholic you must believe it.

Now here is my real problem with the Catholic church: you know how you say the Catholics aren't really following God? They say the same about you. So, you see, it's also my problem with the protestants. Jesus wants us all to be one. If I were counseling your friend, I'd say stop worrying about it, follow Jesus, and let Him figure it out.
 
K

Kefa52

Guest
#9
#9
Do we realize that we are all the body of Christ? The denomination we choose is nothing more than where we choose to worship God.
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#10
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#10
kenisyes said:
The Catholics teach the pope cannot make a mistake on matters of faith and morals, i.e., as he hears from God. I can show you some contradictions between popes, proving this belief wrong. Yet, if you are a Catholic you must believe it.
Click to expand...
I agree with the exemption of this statement. You see when the Pope makes a decision for the church from the chair of St. Peter, meaning this will be something that will clarify the church beliefs, then and only then for the church by the power of God (which is stronger than any men and satan) the Pope becomes infallible. Other than that he can say what he wants and be completely wrong we do not need to follow, it is just in a specific moment.

Many people believe they have infallibility when they pray and read the bible and that only them know the truth. If this is true then why every 'christian" who claims infallibility believes different? aren't we supposed to be one church? All catholics pray to God that he may guide the Pope when a decision concerning the truths we are to know are correct, do you not believe God can grant this?

Everything catholics believe has biblical proof, but people claim infallibility and say we are twisting the word of God.

God chose Mary to place His life in Her. Think about this, how many prophets could see God? Mary did not only saw Him (Jesus) she had Him inside of Her she feed Him she "changed His diaper". She gave life to God for us.

People say that for her to be the mother she had to existed first Not True. God made Adam before Eve, In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God and the word was God. The Blessed Virgin Mary did not existed, she was not first. But she did become the Mother of God. To deny this is to deny Jesus is God.

This argument has been happening since the very beginning of christianity, research the councils and what they had to proof was truth. Those believes that became truths where infallible from a Pope the last decision maker so to speak. The beliefs we have today, and the books of the bible came from those councils. If you belief God sent his Holy Spirit over the men when they decided which books belong in the bible. Why doubt all other teachings this men had to even die for.

Of course this is just my opinion and you believe like you want. I trust God with all my heart with all my soul that He has always been with His church, and he is more powerful than anything.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#11
#11
Rock022 said:
I am Roman Catholic and here is what we believe. [Those who take away something here should not be considered true catholics]

Also Link here ---> What We Believe

"Our profession of faith begins with God, for God is the First and the Last, the beginning and the end of everything. The Credo begins with God the Father, for the Father is the first divine person of the Most Holy Trinity; our Creed begins with the creation of heaven and earth, for creation is the beginning and the foundation of all God's works."

---the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 198
Catholic belief is succinctly expressed in the profession of faith or credo called the Nicene Creed:

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Click to expand...
The demons are more pious than you. They believe, and they tremble.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#13
#13
The root problem with Catholicism, is it stands opposed to the Gospel. Individuals who claim to be Catholic, might be saved, bit the institution itself is unChristian.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#14
#14
Rock022 said:
I do not understand what you are trying to tell me.
Click to expand...
James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#15
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#15
jimmydiggs said:
James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Click to expand...
So this applies to all people who believe in God. Even you. What is the point?
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#16
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#16
jimmydiggs said:
James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Click to expand...
Matthew 16:18 KJV And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#17
#17
Rock022 said:
So this applies to all people who believe in God. Even you. What is the point?
Click to expand...
It does apply to me. Good job.

You don't know the point of the passage?

You can believe a lot of true things, but that does not make you saved.

You can believe Jesus is God, but that does not save you.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#18
#18
Rock022 said:
Matthew 16:18 KJV And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Click to expand...
The gates of hell have not prevailed against the Bride.
 
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Rock022

Banned
#19
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#19
jimmydiggs said:
The gates of hell have not prevailed against the Bride.
Click to expand...
1 Timothy 3 KJV
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 
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Rock022

Banned
#20
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#20
KJV
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I believe Jesus has more power over men than satan. He said He will always be with us right. Why doubt Him?
 
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