Paul did NOT die to the law!

[Eccl12and13]

Did you read Romans 5:13??

Until the Law tells you that there was a time BEFORE the Law.

Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

What was in the world until the law?

Now what law is being spoken of above when Paul states that there is "...no law."


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Did you read Romans 5:13??

Until the Law tells you that there was a time BEFORE the Law.

There was NEVER a time that there were no laws. There have been laws for man from day ONE!

How else could Adam have sinned if there were no laws.

God had laws BEFORE there was MAN!

Did you not know this?


.

 

[mark54]

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages, to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself

Heb9:26

You are right, sin is the transgression of the law, so what could the writer of Heb be telling us in the above text?

Let's look at the ENTIRE verse;


1 John 3
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the breaking of God's laws.

 

[Eccl12and13]

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages, to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself

Heb9:26

You are right, sin is the transgression of the law, so what could the writer of Heb be telling us in the above text?

Let's look at the ENTIRE verse;


1 John 3
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is the breaking of God's laws.

Heb.9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Could the above mean that sin is TOTALLY taken away? Is there no more sin in the world? Who is it that God is returning to punish? SINNERS!

So what was the sin that was taken away in the above verse?

John 1
[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

When Christ died He made it possible for us to attain salvation. If we believe in Him and His blood, we will not have to shed our blood for the remission of sins.

Sin, the breaking of God's laws, as we know are still here. That is why we do not go back to doing those things we used to do before coming into the word of God. Because we know God's laws and we know what is right in His sight and what is wrong.


.

 

[mark54]

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages, to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself

Heb9:26

You are right, sin is the transgression of the law, so what could the writer of Heb be telling us in the above text?






Heb.9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Could the above mean that sin is TOTALLY taken away? Is there no more sin in the world? Who is it that God is returning to punish? SINNERS!

So what was the sin that was taken away in the above verse?

John 1
[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

When Christ died He made it possible for us to attain salvation. If we believe in Him and His blood, we will not have to shed our blood for the remission of sins.

Sin, the breaking of God's laws, as we know are still here. That is why we do not go back to doing those things we used to do before coming into the word of God. Because we know God's laws and we know what is right in His sight and what is wrong.


.

Can I ask you? What do you believe is a Christians righteousness in God's sight?

 

[Eccl12and13]

Can I ask you? What do you believe is a Christians righteousness in God's sight?

Let's read what it means to be righteous;

Rom.4
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Being righteous is believing and having faith in God. And what is having faith?

Rom.3
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Having faith is a law.

1 Cor.15
[34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Righteousness is not sinning. And what is sin? Transgressing God's laws.

2 Cor.6
[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Being righteous is not fellowshipping with unbelievers.

Tit.2
[12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Again we read that being righteous is not sinning.


Over and over again we read of those that God consider righteous are those that kept God's laws. For as we know.....the UNRIGHTEOUS are those that are NOT keeping God's laws.


.

 

[mark54]

Righteousness is not sinning. And what is sin? Transgressing God's laws.


Again we read that being righteous is not sinning.(transgression of the law)


Over and over again we read of those that God consider righteous are those that kept God's laws. For as we know.....the UNRIGHTEOUS are those that are NOT keeping God's laws.


.

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

I do not set aside the gace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

But now a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness which is by faith from first to last
Rom 1:17

I can only assume you attend a church where the minister preaches you have a righteousness according to obediance to law keeping. That is truly tragic

 

[Eccl12and13]

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

I do not set aside the gace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

But now a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness which is by faith from first to last
Rom 1:17

I can only assume you attend a church where the minister preaches you have a righteousness according to obediance to law keeping. That is truly tragic

Can we ignore ANY scriptures in God's words?

Deut.8
[3] And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Matt.4
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Man is to live by ALL of God's words.

And where are we to receive ALL of our doctrine?

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So again....ALL of the bible is to be used be ALL of mankind to receive ALL of our doctrine.

So NONE of God's words are to be ignored.

With that said....are the verses I quoted NOT true? Just because you presented some other scriptures concerning righteousness does that mean that the verses I presented are any less valid?

Is one that is righteous in God's eye, one that is keeping His commandments?

1 Cor.15
[34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Righteousness is not sinning. And what is sin? Transgressing God's laws.

2 Cor.6
[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Being righteous is not fellowshipping with unbelievers.

Tit.2
[12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Again we read that being righteous is not sinning.


Is a righteous person a person that is not sinning and keeping the commandments of God?


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

I do not set aside the gace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

But now a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness which is by faith from first to last
Rom 1:17

I can only assume you attend a church where the minister preaches you have a righteousness according to obediance to law keeping. That is truly tragic

Rom.4
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Did not Abraham's belief cause God to look upon him as a righteous person?

And is it not a law to have faith? We are COMMANDED to have faith in God. Is this not a law?

So then keeping God's law of faith by Abraham caused God to call him righteous!

Can we ignore this above verse just because others are presented?

Is the above statement concerning Abraham false? Was it a lie? Did Paul contradict himself?


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

I can only assume you attend a church where the minister preaches you have a righteousness according to obediance to law keeping. That is truly tragic

What does an unrighteous person do in God's eye? Are they doing their best to keep God's laws? Or does God consider an unrighteous person one that is breaking His laws?

.

 

[mark54]

Rom.4
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Did not Abraham's belief cause God to look upon him as a righteous person?

And is it not a law to have faith? We are COMMANDED to have faith in God. Is this not a law?

So then keeping God's law of faith by Abraham caused God to call him righteous!

Can we ignore this above verse just because others are presented?

Is the above statement concerning Abraham false? Was it a lie? Did Paul contradict himself?


.

You are right, Abraham was declared righteous by God because of his faith. However, I struggle to understand how you would believe someone like Abraham a righteous person. After God accepted him, he took Sarah his wife to Egypt, lied and pasased her off as his sister, and subbsequently Pharoah took her into his palace as his wife. Did Abraham admit his dishonesty? No! he accepted the gifts lavished on him by Pharoah. Only God's intervention changed the situation
Clearly Abraham did not have a righteousness of his own personal goodness

 

[Eccl12and13]

You are right, Abraham was declared righteous by God because of his faith. However, I struggle to understand how you would believe someone like Abraham a righteous person. After God accepted him, he took Sarah his wife to Egypt, lied and pasased her off as his sister, and subbsequently Pharoah took her into his palace as his wife. Did Abraham admit his dishonesty? No! he accepted the gifts lavished on him by Pharoah. Only God's intervention changed the situation
Clearly Abraham did not have a righteousness of his own personal goodness

Not sure what it is you are trying to say. First you admit that God declared Abraham righteous, then you ask how could I believe that Abraham could be considered righteous. I consider him righteous because God said He was. God called Abraham righteous even AFTER all that he did....even AFTER he lied about his wife.

Everybody sins; Moses, Abraham, Noah, David....all have sinned. And yet even after sin God considers some to be righteous. So what's your point?

Being righteous is keeping God's laws.

1 Cor.15
[34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Righteousness is not sinning. And what is sin? Transgressing God's laws.

2 Cor.6
[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Being righteous is not fellowshipping with unbelievers. What does an unbeliever do in God's eye? Are they doing their best to keep God's laws? Or does God consider an unbeliever one that is breaking His laws? An unbeliever is a sinner. For we are commanded by God to have faith. Having faith is a law.

Tit.2
[12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Again we read that being righteous is not sinning.


Over and over again we read of those that God consider righteous are those that kept God's laws. For as we know.....the UNRIGHTEOUS are those that are NOT keeping God's laws.


.

 

[Grandpa]

There was NEVER a time that there were no laws. There have been laws for man from day ONE!

How else could Adam have sinned if there were no laws.

God had laws BEFORE there was MAN!

Did you not know this?


.

There absolutely was a time before the Law was given. All the time before Moses.

Adam sinned because He transgressed against God. He didn't break the Law because the Law had not been given yet.

Romans 5:12-14
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:12-14 tells you that sin was in the world before the law was given. It was not imputed because there was no law, nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

What law is referred to here as 'the law' ???

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

What law is referred to here, 4 verses later, as 'the law' ???

If there were two different laws that were being spoken of by Paul, he would definitely have differentiated between the two.

He would definitely have said we are not under the law of sacrificing animals if that was the only law that the Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled.

It would be insulting to me to say the Lord Jesus only fulfilled the law of sacrificing animals if I didn't think you were doing it in ignorance. I'm trying not to be insulted by you taking the Lord Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice lightly. I know you don't understand Grace or His Spirit. I wish I could teach you but I think it is something you must go to Him directly for...

Are you a practicing Jew?

 

[tribesman]

Everybody sins; Moses, Abraham, Noah, David....all have sinned. And yet even after sin God considers some to be righteous...

Just a question: How do you reconcile this statement above with the one/s below?

Being righteous is keeping God's laws...Righteousness is not sinning. And what is sin? Transgressing God's laws....Again we read that being righteous is not sinning.

...Over and over again we read of those that God consider righteous are those that kept God's laws. For as we know.....the UNRIGHTEOUS are those that are NOT keeping God's laws...

 

[weakness]

All things are lawful , but all things edify not. to the pure all things are pure, The law of liberty has made me free from the law of sin and death, for the gentiles which have not the law ,if they fulfill the law are a law unto themselves( by the Holy Spirit working in and through them.)

 

[JGPS]

What is the difference between what you are saying and the Jew who is going to synagogue and no longer sacrificing animals???

The short answer is Jesus Christ.

Well, pretty much what David said.

Especially the 'without the Talmud' part. Jesus didn't like the parties that had hands in creating the Talmud.

 

[Grandpa]

The short answer is Jesus Christ.

Well, pretty much what David said.

Especially the 'without the Talmud' part. Jesus didn't like the parties that had hands in creating the Talmud.

I don't remember what that was in reference too...

Sorry.

 

[JGPS]

Just a question: How do you reconcile this statement above with the one/s below?

Repentance. Forgiveness. Grace.

Each of these men that broke Gods law repented for their sins and turned away from them, and where forgiven and thus righteous.

 

[JGPS]

I don't remember what that was in reference too...

Sorry.

Seems I was a few pages out, I'm used to jumping to last page on a forum like this, though it seems I was on page three.

 

[Grandpa]

Seems I was a few pages out, I'm used to jumping to last page on a forum like this, though it seems I was on page three.

Please expound...