Joe and Daphne (a hypothetical situation) - To yoke, or not to yoke

[AAAPlus]

The Bible does say not to be unequally yoked. God has a reason for all things, He is all-powerful and able to control any circumstance.

It just so happened that Joe was able to attend the Christian concert and Daphne was not. It just so happened that this conversion took place before they were married and not after. Joe's heart was opened to the Holy Spirit of God, but Daphne closed and hardened her heart because of her past.

The further they get along in their relationship, the more the yoke will tend to break. Joe has started to move along in his journey with God and Daphne remains unfazed; she's open to the idea of God but not to Christianity, just like she was before. As Joe moves more and more towards God, Daphne will slow him down as the result of an unequal yoke. The Bible says "husbands, how do you know whether you will save your wives?" There is no guarantee at all that she will eventually become a Christian; by staying with her, he is risking his relationship with God. At that point, who cares about human-offered love and affection, who cares how "hot" she is, who cares about how "open to spiritual things" she is? As the Bible says, what good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul?

Break it off. Joe is not the same guy that Daphne got engaged to. He is a new creation in Christ Jesus. He has been born again. Part of tearing off his old self includes his old girlfriend.

 

[Stuey]

*jumps up and down demanding attention*

 

[Stuey]

Why can't I like my own posts.

 

[LightningClap0002]

The Bible does say not to be unequally yoked. God has a reason for all things, He is all-powerful and able to control any circumstance.

It just so happened that Joe was able to attend the Christian concert and Daphne was not. It just so happened that this conversion took place before they were married and not after. Joe's heart was opened to the Holy Spirit of God, but Daphne closed and hardened her heart because of her past.

The further they get along in their relationship, the more the yoke will tend to break. Joe has started to move along in his journey with God and Daphne remains unfazed; she's open to the idea of God but not to Christianity, just like she was before. As Joe moves more and more towards God, Daphne will slow him down as the result of an unequal yoke. The Bible says "husbands, how do you know whether you will save your wives?" There is no guarantee at all that she will eventually become a Christian; by staying with her, he is risking his relationship with God. At that point, who cares about human-offered love and affection, who cares how "hot" she is, who cares about how "open to spiritual things" she is? As the Bible says, what good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul?

Break it off. Joe is not the same guy that Daphne got engaged to. He is a new creation in Christ Jesus. He has been born again. Part of tearing off his old self includes his old girlfriend.

I don't want to get into an argument, so I will just pose this question to you to contemplate if you choose.

You stated:
The Bible says "husbands, how do you know whether you will save your wives?"

Does it say that you're guaranteed not to save your wife? If not, on the one hand Joe might risk his own salvation if he stays. On the other hand Joe might risk Daphne's salvation if he leaves. Is it wise to try and play the odds when eternal life is involved? Especially when the odds are unknown?

 

[AAAPlus]

*jumps up and down demanding attention*

We see you! They're not sleeping together! This is a hypothetical meaning it did not actually happen. So you can't go adding other factors to it.

And even if they had been sleeping together, Joe is still a new creation in Christ.

 

[AAAPlus]

I don't want to get into an argument, so I will just pose this question to you to contemplate if you choose.

You stated:
The Bible says "husbands, how do you know whether you will save your wives?"

Does it say that you're guaranteed not to save your wife? If not, on the one hand Joe might risk his own salvation if he stays. On the other hand Joe might risk Daphne's salvation if he leaves. Is it wise to try and play the odds when eternal life is involved? Especially when the odds are unknown?

Daphne's salvation is not up to him. The Bible says not to be unequally yoked. Ignoring that is not going to get her saved. Ignoring the Bible is not a viable way of bringing the gospel to folks. Following the Bible, yes. Disregarding it, no.

 

[Stuey]

We see you! They're not sleeping together! This is a hypothetical meaning it did not actually happen. So you can't go adding other factors to it.

And even if they had been sleeping together, Joe is still a new creation in Christ.

Name one non christian couple you know that didn't sleep together after dating for 5 years! Hypotheticals have to make sense...

If they had only been together six months, not slept together and were engaged, the situation would be entirely different.

He is, but I think I would argue that they are already married, need to work now... will post more later.

I guess there might be two separate situations here. Well, hypothetically, what to think of both?

 

[AAAPlus]

Name one non christian couple you know that didn't sleep together after dating for 5 years! Hypotheticals have to make sense...

If they had only been together six months, not slept together and were engaged, the situation would be entirely different.

He is, but I think I would argue that they are already married, need to work now... will post more later.

I guess there might be two separate situations here. Well, hypothetically, what to think of both?

No, I agree that couples in their circumstances have probably slept together. But that's not part of this particular story.

In any case, why does that make them married? What if one or both of them had slept with partners prior to meeting each other...wouldn't that mean they are married to their previous partners?

As I understand it, and correct me if I'm misinformed, but "adultery" is sex outside of your marriage and "fornication" is sex between two unmarried people. So if "fornication" is a thing in the Bible, does that not imply that two people who have sex still aren't necessarily married in God's eyes?

 

[LightningClap0002]

Daphne's salvation is not up to him. The Bible says not to be unequally yoked. Ignoring that is not going to get her saved. Ignoring the Bible is not a viable way of bringing the gospel to folks. Following the Bible, yes. Disregarding it, no.

Like I said, for you to contemplate. If you don't want to study it, that's up to you.

 

[Stuey]

The Bible also doesn't say that saying a few vows to each other makes you married - that is a cultural tradition that we have inherited. Weird huh.

I don't agree with the view that we are married to whoever we first sleep together either. So what does being married mean? When are we married?

 

[Jullianna]

Perhaps...but also since no one said it...


Of course I wouldnt leave Daphne...did you see how hot she was?

It's so wrong to laugh at this, but I did

 

[niceguyJ]

Joe should ask himself who he loves more, God or Daphne? Then show it with his actions. Joe should certainly not marry an unbeliever, as some others have already stated.
I don't believe you can have a marriage with someone without them having an effect on your faith. I don't even think you can have a close friendship without the other person having some effect on it.

Knowing he definitely shouldn't marry her: Ultimately, Joe would need to seek God and find out whether or not he should even stay in contact with Daphne, or just completely cut off all contact.


Matt 8:21-22:
Another man, one of Jesus’ ·followers [disciples], said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the people who are dead [C spiritually] bury their own dead.”

 

[Pheonix]

The Bible does say not to be unequally yoked. God has a reason for all things, He is all-powerful and able to control any circumstance.

It just so happened that Joe was able to attend the Christian concert and Daphne was not. It just so happened that this conversion took place before they were married and not after. Joe's heart was opened to the Holy Spirit of God, but Daphne closed and hardened her heart because of her past.

The further they get along in their relationship, the more the yoke will tend to break. Joe has started to move along in his journey with God and Daphne remains unfazed; she's open to the idea of God but not to Christianity, just like she was before. As Joe moves more and more towards God, Daphne will slow him down as the result of an unequal yoke. The Bible says "husbands, how do you know whether you will save your wives?" There is no guarantee at all that she will eventually become a Christian; by staying with her, he is risking his relationship with God. At that point, who cares about human-offered love and affection, who cares how "hot" she is, who cares about how "open to spiritual things" she is? As the Bible says, what good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul?

Break it off. Joe is not the same guy that Daphne got engaged to. He is a new creation in Christ Jesus. He has been born again. Part of tearing off his old self includes his old girlfriend.

the problem with this statement is he would not be tearing off his girlfriend, he would be tearing off his fiance. There is a huge difference between a girlfriend and a fiance. For all intents and purposes they are married. A commitment has been given. in the bible Isaac and Rebecca were not married to each other until after she arrived at his fathers tent, but here commitment had already occurred. There would have been serious consequences had she broken the commitment to Isaac. In my opinion a spiritual marriage takes place before the vows. Its like the difference between salvation and baptism. The vows are a public statement of a commitment that has already occurred before God. That's my two cents worth, and no this is not condoning premarital physical relations just as you do not enter an assembly prior to baptism.

 

[alienx7587]

Perhaps...but also since no one said it...


Of course I wouldnt leave Daphne...did you see how hot she was?

^LOL!

...Seriously though, friend, beauty is fleeting! There are many 'hot' women out there, but unless she is being sustained by the wellspring of the Holy Spirit, her soul will wither like fruit off the vine. Her outward appearance, likewise.

That being said, Joe should stay with her for a couple of weeks or so to get a sense of the long-term reaction from Daphne. If Daphne doesn't yield (or seem like she is likely to become a Christian) to Joe's new lifestyle change and become a Christian, Joe should pack his bags and return the the 'just friends' status.

 

[GreenNnice]

Ok, I have a hypothetical question for you guys based on this short (and remarkably well-written ) story..

Lets say there is a very happy couple named Joe and Daphne who recently got engaged to be married. They've been in a serious relationship for 5 years now and they each feel that they could never live without each other. They know with all their hearts that they are meant to be together for the rest of their lives..

But the thing about Joe and Daphne is that neither of them are christian. They both believe that there is a God/Creator, but don't believe in christianity or any religion.

One day, Joe's friend Peter asks him and Daphne to come to this big christian event where there's going to be live bands and some popular christian speakers. Joe and Daphne think it sounds fun so they agree to go, but then Daphne realizes she can't go because she promised to cover for someone at work that weekend (which is true).

Joe goes and is so touched by the message of Christ's love and sacrifice that he repents and accepts Jesus as his Lord and Savior right then and there.

When he gets home he tells Daphne all about what happened, but Daphne says he was just caught up in all the fanfare and that it affected his rational thinking. Joe completely denies that and even has Daphne watch a presentation of the entire event on tv to convince her, but Daphne is still not convinced that Joe acted rationally. She tells Joe that it was a very interesting and compelling message but its still not proof enough for her that christianity is the answer.

She reminds Joe about the christian friends she had who used to talk behind her back and criticize her for what she wore, who she dated, who she hung out with, how she wasn't worthy of going to heaven, how she was actually doing the devil's will and how she will go to hell if she didn't change her ways and be born again. Joe saw her breakdown in tears as she told him how she could never become one of them or be friends with people like that again.

Joe understood her and knew that this was still the woman he loved with all his heart, and Daphne also knew too that she would love Joe with all her heart no matter whether he was a christian or not and they both agreed that they would accept and respect each other's views on God as long as their views were grounded in love and selflessness.

Now for the Big Question.... Should Joe leave Daphne because she is not a christian?

"People let you down, Daph, not God, Scripture says God never leaves us and it says, too, He never will forsake us. God is love, your friends showed you condemnation when there is NOT one ounce of condemning.by Christ of those going to hell , no accusing, just loving.'.

I ,would pray sooo hard, sooo much to God ,for Him to someway show Daphne, convict

 

[Stuey]

There is a third option if hypothetically they haven't slept together. Stay together but refuse to marry her until she becomes a Christian. lol.

I must admit I am quite surprised how quickly you are all to toss that relationship out the window. Even if hypothetically they haven't been sleeping together.

 

[kayem77]

This is a complicated situation, but I think that even if Joe decided to stay with Daphne, their differences would eventually make their relationship break. Easier said than done, but I think Joe should say adios to Daphne. He could share the gospel (and he must) and give her some time to reflect...but if she remains an unbeliever then the only thing Joe can do is pray and pray and pray.

Noone can assure Joe that she will be saved through their marriage, actually, it can have the opposite effect. She could feel left out and abandoned, even misunderstood. Can you imagine going to church all by yourself? (While your spouse is waiting for you at home) Listening to worship music at home while your spouse looks at you as if you were a freak...knowing that she doesn't get it? I couldn't be able to give up to all those little things that we could do as a couple. Praying together, reading the Word together, worshipping together, thanking and praising God together, going on missions together....or even just knowing in your heart that if one of you dies, you will meet up again in Heaven.

So....I think my answer is ....eventually Yes.

 

[Ritter]

I'll add to the chorus.

Give Daphne a bit of time to come around, then cut it off.

That said, there is some wisdom in her questioning his salvation. Anecdotal evidence has more or less proven to me that people like Joe are more likely to have been caught up in fanfare and not convicted by the truth.

 

[Snackersmom]

I think Joe should definitely be willing to leave Daphne, and he shouldn't marry a non-Christian. But I also think there's some wisdom in giving her time to sort things through and see if The Holy Spirit might use Joe to help her see Truth. Joe would definitely have to be careful and stay prayed-up, but I think it's doable if God is leading him.

 

[GreenNnice]

There is a third option if hypothetically they haven't slept together. Stay together but refuse to marry her until she becomes a Christian. lol.

I must admit I am quite surprised how quickly you are all to toss that relationship out the window. Even if hypothetically they haven't been sleeping together.

Stu?

What would Jesus do?

Naut.? Zere?


Serious question for you. I hear your answers and I'm asking this question, you seem fit that going through a marriage of unequalness is an OK choice to make.

Now, I am more stauch, or, at least, as staunch as ANYONE when it comes to letting Him lead your life. I don't care what people think about a lot of things, including things they THINK is Scripture telling them to different, like listening to a woman pastor a church when something like ` 1 Timothy 2:12 contrues that women are to be silent, to not teach or have authority over a man. I*'ve shredded this doctine many times, and, it's clear as glass to me why I believe the way I do and sI am NOT dissing nor saying that Scripture is not 100% true . It is ~!~ But, the Holy Spirit revelas to us all truth and He is who I will go for all my answers.

But, for me, speaking of ME now, not YOU, I would NOT, ultimately, marry a person who is unequally yoiked. Now, could the Lord lead me in some way to do that? YES~ But, it would have to be such a fine understanding that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was to marry a non-Christian.

Personally, again, me speaking, I just don't think I could see God putting me in that kind of a situation. We are to be supportive of our spouse in everything, and, finding someone who would want to marry you for being a Christian just seems odd to me to even consider a remote possibility of genuine want, UNLESS the person wants to pick apart their (in this case, it's Joe's) faith as the marriage progresses.... I know, it's easy to be having peace and just living your life and letting the Lord lead. Yeah, but, the Lord does NOT lead us into doing something that is 1. against Scripture and 2. potentially going to cause you to disembrace your relationship with Him.
The IDEA of just TRYING to be in a relationship with a non-Christian makes me start thinking I am breaking eggshells when I would do something in the relationship.

Now, I am NOT condemning, again, if I am not the biggest non-condemner on c.c., I am close. You CONDEMN yourself when you condemn others, Scripture says this.

Scary, isn't it ~!~ Here is you THINKING you will lead them to Christ and they are dead-set against God, heart is hardened. You just don't know it because Satan is hiding their true heart. Oh, THAT SNAKE ! The wickedness, THE WICKEDNESS !!

Satan is soooo set (dead-set) on getting Christians to repent from their godlly way and turning to Him.

He is sooo real in this realm, don;'t you see how he works??? He is IN your life now, He can be in the most upright and loyal of faith in Him followers, and, still BRING them down. God even allows it sometimes. Look no further than who, green? Job.