Ambassador Stevens

[TheGrungeDiva]

I really don’t know what your problem is, nor why you are so vindictive towards me. Your contradictions are baffling.

I could ask the same thing of you. I am not the one being contradictory here.

My problem is that you are twisting my words and lying about what I am saying. If you are doing so accidentally, because you don't understand what I am saying, then I can forgive you and we can move on. I have given you 4 chances to admit to this error, and you have rejected every last one of them. I am being forced to conclude that you are lying willfully, and I just don't understand why.

I’m not the only person on this thread who has criticised Obama.

That is true. I have criticized him as well. I even spell correctly when I do it. The difference is, I have criticized him for his actions, and have not -- because I know I have neither the authority nor the right -- judged his salvation or faith. Only God can do that, and I believe God does, has, and will do this.

A previous poster said “Barack Obama's religion is ultimately Barack Obama.” So according to this statement he’s not a Christian then. You actually added a ‘like’ to his post. Why is that? Please explain.

I clicked "like" to that post because I appreciate what Ritter said, if I am understanding him correctly. It's possible that I have misunderstood him, but this is what I took him to mean by that comment: it is not that Obama is not "Christian;" it's that Obama -- as a lot of us -- has put himself, his pride and personal goals -- above God. I know there have been times when I have done that, and I repent of it. I know many people who have done that at one time or another in their lives. That doesn't make them non-Christian. It makes them human.

Obama is a sinner. This is obvious, and something I have been saying from the start. The fact that he is a sinner does not bar him from membership in the Church of Christ. If it did, there would be NO Christians. Not you, not me, no one but Jesus himself would be eligible for that clique.

Initially, when you said that Obama was not a Christian, I thought that you just didn't know better -- that you had been hood-winked into the lies that are going around about him being Muslim (and they are lies .... he is not Muslim). Therefore, I sought to correct you, pointing out that in fact he is Christian, which in fact means that he should know better, and that, at least in my opinion, his actions are even more deplorable. But you seem to think that for some reason his sins bar him from being a Christian, while yours do not. That is ludicrous. And you have given no defense of your lunacy; you have only repeated it.

So far you've accused me of not behaving like a Christian, playing the fool, now you call me a troll, and finally, when I give an answer that you don’t like, you accuse me of not reading your posts!

I've got one to add to the list: poor memory.
I accused you of not reading my posts first, not last. That was my first hunch as to why you were so off-base on your comments; I was hoping you just hadn't read what I wrote, and that if you had only taken the time to read it, you would have realized what I was saying.

When that didn't work, I tried to come up with other theories as to why you might be misunderstanding me. Proving every theory wrong, you are bound and determined to leave myself and every other reader of this thread with only one choice: you are a troll.

I would love to have another option, but your most recent case of revisionist history has given me none.

I apologize to the rest of the board for feeding this troll, and will try to sit on my hands rather than feed it any further.

 

[HumbledOutright]

I could ask the same thing of you. I am not the one being contradictory here.

My problem is that you are twisting my words and lying about what I am saying. If you are doing so accidentally, because you don't understand what I am saying, then I can forgive you and we can move on. I have given you 4 chances to admit to this error, and you have rejected every last one of them. I am being forced to conclude that you are lying willfully, and I just don't understand why.


That is true. I have criticized him as well. I even spell correctly when I do it. The difference is, I have criticized him for his actions, and have not -- because I know I have neither the authority nor the right -- judged his salvation or faith. Only God can do that, and I believe God does, has, and will do this.


I clicked "like" to that post because I appreciate what Ritter said, if I am understanding him correctly. It's possible that I have misunderstood him, but this is what I took him to mean by that comment: it is not that Obama is not "Christian;" it's that Obama -- as a lot of us -- has put himself, his pride and personal goals -- above God. I know there have been times when I have done that, and I repent of it. I know many people who have done that at one time or another in their lives. That doesn't make them non-Christian. It makes them human.

Obama is a sinner. This is obvious, and something I have been saying from the start. The fact that he is a sinner does not bar him from membership in the Church of Christ. If it did, there would be NO Christians. Not you, not me, no one but Jesus himself would be eligible for that clique.

Initially, when you said that Obama was not a Christian, I thought that you just didn't know better -- that you had been hood-winked into the lies that are going around about him being Muslim (and they are lies .... he is not Muslim). Therefore, I sought to correct you, pointing out that in fact he is Christian, which in fact means that he should know better, and that, at least in my opinion, his actions are even more deplorable. But you seem to think that for some reason his sins bar him from being a Christian, while yours do not. That is ludicrous. And you have given no defense of your lunacy; you have only repeated it.


I've got one to add to the list: poor memory.
I accused you of not reading my posts first, not last. That was my first hunch as to why you were so off-base on your comments; I was hoping you just hadn't read what I wrote, and that if you had only taken the time to read it, you would have realized what I was saying.

When that didn't work, I tried to come up with other theories as to why you might be misunderstanding me. Proving every theory wrong, you are bound and determined to leave myself and every other reader of this thread with only one choice: you are a troll.

I would love to have another option, but your most recent case of revisionist history has given me none.

I apologize to the rest of the board for feeding this troll, and will try to sit on my hands rather than feed it any further.

I assume that you're speaking for everyone else on this forum when you say that I'm a troll. I mean, let's put it this way, everyone thinks that I am (after all, you say so, so they must do). I don't think that referring to past posts can actually be counted as revisionist history, but hey, if you think so then why not?
By the way, you didn't answer my question. Why 'like' a comment by someone who is also calling Obama a non-Christian? Can you answer that question or has your self-defined revisionist history made you forget that I asked you to explain it? By the way, thank you for your Christian kindness. You've made me feel so welcome!

 

[HumbledOutright]

I assume that you're speaking for everyone else on this forum when you say that I'm a troll. I mean, let's put it this way, everyone thinks that I am (after all, you say so, so they must do). I don't think that referring to past posts can actually be counted as revisionist history, but hey, if you think so then why not?
By the way, you didn't answer my question. Why 'like' a comment by someone who is also calling Obama a non-Christian? Can you answer that question or has your self-defined revisionist history made you forget that I asked you to explain it? By the way, thank you for your Christian kindness. You've made me feel so welcome!

By the way, I hold my hands up and say that yes, I didn't really read your last post but that is because I am bored with you. It's embarrassing for me to admit my mistake - true, but your idiocy is un-nerving.
You call me a troll, but your own attitude is non-Christian, vicious, scathing, rude and downright offputting. Some people come here to find salvation but your comments are unfriendly, unwelcoming and downright un-Christian. You accuse me of being an Atheist, but if I really was an Atheist looking for God, then you would be one person who would put me off finding him. I pray for your soul. You've probably put off many newcomers to this site. I hope that you're proud of yourself.
I'm going elsewhere because I'm really sick of listening to you. There are other Christian websites. I'll find one that is more accommodating. Have fun, and keep on being judgemental... I believe that you enjoy it.

Yours sincerely. the Troll.

 

[webchatter]

Yes it is truly heartbreaking what happened to these men in Egypt on 9-11-12. Still waiting on Hillary Clinton to testify. Obama said in the rose garden that it was not a terrorist attack at first, then word got out about the truth & he eventually changed his story. Then he told another lie & said they were protesting an antiMuslim youtube video depicting Mohammed in a bad light. ON 9-11? Isn't that a coincidence 9-11 murder? Were you aware that the Muslim group causing all the problems in Egypt, "the Muslim Brotherhood", was given millions of U.S. dollars by Obama in his first year of office? & every year since.Then one of them used the $ & ran for office & won. Now they control the gov't there.
After Obama announced the youtube excuse, then rioting against the video that didn't even exist & that they hadn't even seen, began, & they held up signs blaming Obama for allowing such a video to be made in the U.S. So, next Obama makes a speech & says proudly that he has arrested the man responsible for making the video, & says that the man is, " a Coptic Christian from Egypt"!!!!!!!!!!!! Then the Muslims in Egypt attacked the church & it's Christians members, which they've been doing for years anyway.
So Obama locks up his 1st Christian in the U.S. based on a lie Obama told. This man was found guilty of using a false name while on probation. (maybe he had a death threat against him?) His lawyer made a statement on the courthouse steps that Obama is a liar & cannot suppress the truth.
As far as Obama being a Christian or not, look at the evidence. He is not a Christian even tho he says he is. He attended a so called Christian church for 20 some years where the pastor took the Lord's name in vain from the pulpit 3 times in one sermon. "God Damn America" said by pastor Jeremiah Wright. I would have walked out. The pastors comments are antiAmerican & antiGod.. He was calling for it's destruction & the audience applauded. They regularly took up Hamas collections, a terrorist group. Obama campaigned in Kenya for somone who appeared to be communist,see the video of him passing out pamphlets & campaigning.
During his 1st campaign, he referred to the 57 states in the United states of America, lol. It's Islam who has 57 states!!!
He wears a gold ring that says, "There is but one God, Allah", then had it altered after it was photographed & interpreted.
You can see videos of his speeches on youtube of him opening the Bible, reading from it, & mocking it, then proclaiming "We are no longer a Christian nation". Early in his 1st campaign he made fun of some complaints by saying, "They carry a Bible in one hand and a gun in the other".
He has quoted verses from the old testament which brought destruction/God's judgement to Jerusalem.
He is on video saying about the morning prayer of Muslims, "The sweetest sound I ever heard"!!!!
Anyone who thinks he is a Christian, has not looked into the matter, nor have they even listened to what Obama himself has said. Maybe they just heard him say he was a Christian & they believed him. Well the AntiChrist is going to say he is Jesus come again. We already know a lot of people will believe him too.

 

[Therapon]

It he gives taxpayer money to the Muslim Brotherhood, quacks like a Muslim, has feathers like a Muslim and webbed feet like a Muslim, guess what, he's a Musliim. Here's what he is in his own words . . . Obama Admits He Is A Muslim - YouTube

 

[Nautilus]

It he gives taxpayer money to the Muslim Brotherhood, quacks like a Muslim, has feathers like a Muslim and webbed feet like a Muslim, guess what, he's a Musliim. Here's what he is in his own words . . . Obama Admits He Is A Muslim - YouTube

And even if he is a muslim? no big deal. he is a president, not a pastor. His religion means very little to me.

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

His religion means very little to me.

Someday it might!

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

It he gives taxpayer money to the Muslim Brotherhood, quacks like a Muslim, has feathers like a Muslim and webbed feet like a Muslim, guess what, he's a Musliim. Here's what he is in his own words . . . Obama Admits He Is A Muslim - YouTube

He has never admitted that he IS a Muslim. He has admitted that:
1) He has been influenced by Islamic culture .
2) Islam has given many wonderful things to the world -- art, architecture, mathematics are just a few.
3) He appreciates his multi-cultural upbringing, which included both Christian and Muslim backgrounds.

Listen: My father was Jewish. I grew up learning about Judaism, celebrating its holy days, experiencing its culture. Of the 7 languages I have studied, Hebrew is, in my opinion, the most beautiful of them all. I have great respect for the Jewish religion; I think Judaism provides some of the most profound theology there is.

But I believe in Jesus Christ, and therefore, I am not a Jew. My respect and admiration for all things Hebrew doesn't make me a Jew.

And Mr. Obama's respect and admiration for Islam, a significant part of his upbringing, does not make him a Muslim any more than Jane Goodall's peculiar fascination makes her a chimpanzee

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

He has never admitted that he IS a Muslim.

Does he actually have to admit it? Afterall a muslim can use taqiyya to conceal his true belief.

Taqiyya تقية (alternate spellings taqiyeh,taqiya, taqiyah, tuqyah) is a form of religious dissimulation, or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are at risk of significant persecution.
This practice was emphasized in Shi'a Islam whereby adherents may conceal their religion when they are under threat, persecution, or compulsion.


1Christianwarrior316

 

[Therapon]

He has never admitted that he IS a Muslim. He has admitted that:

1) He has been influenced by Islamic culture.

Click on the link, he admitted it . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

 

[Nautilus]

Click on the link, he admitted it . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

Why do you care so much?

 

[webchatter]

We care so much because we are familiar with what Muslims do to Christians, among other peoples. Have you read the Koran? Remember 9-11 (twin towers,etc, then ambassador Stevens), was murder in the name of Jihad, =Muslim war against
our nation's major religion=Christianity, or did you forget? They can name any religion "infidels", are instructed in the Koran to murder them, & they will recieve a # of virgins in heaven. Our murder guarantees them heaven according to their "RELIGION". I'm suprised some Americans don't know this, especially the enemy of Muslims should know it. It was explained over & over again on 9-11. Muslims all over the world were dancing in the streets chanting Jihad & celebrating the deaths of Americans on CNN, Fox, PBS, etc. I'm surprised anyone missed that.
Are you familiar with what our Bible says about these people in the O.T.? Sorry I forget the verse, but Ishmael is sent out/away/evicted from Abraham's home, along with Ishmael's mother. The later verses go on to say that Ishmael's descendents will make war with Issac's descendants & God's followers basicly forever I take it. Did you see the news coverage after 9-11 of Osama Bin Laden kneeling in front of a cave, with a rifle in hand, saying, "We want our inheritance?". This is referring to those verses mentioned above. God promised Israel to Abraham's first born son & Ishmael was the illegitimet son ,
of Abraham, & God gave Issac Israel because he was the firstborn legitimet son.
Also, the Koran's end time prophecy says that they will rule the world in end times. They are trying to hurry it's happenning. They certainly have a head start here with a Muslim in the white house as president & in other positions. Islam is being taught in grade schools, but Christianity cannot be taught.
If you love a female, such as your mother, daughter, or wife, you should also be very concerned about what Muslims do to women. They murder their own women, behead them in public, etc. It's common & it is done in the name of their religion.
I know we all just read the op of what they do to men, such as Ambassador Stevens.Do you know what the men do to little boys? IT"S COMMON!!
Being familiar with our end times prophecy, it appears that it's highly possible that Muslims could be in power/control of governing the world in Biblical end times. The final antichrist is described as not having any regard for women. Either this means he is gay or he murders women or doesn't care what they think, etc. I believe it's either gay, or murders them without blinking an eye, because a lot of men don't care what women think, & the description in the Bible wouldn't distinguish the antichrist from many other men if it meant he didn't care what women thought. (lol no offence).
Then Satan's army is defeated. So the koran may be satan's end time senario/religion.
I believe this was right after the 2008 elections when I was watching PBS news & Henry Kissinger said"We would like Obama to head the New World Order".

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Click on the link, he admitted it . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

I watched the whole video. I'm neither impressed nor convinced by this mediocre edit job, stringing together and looping the 10-15 seconds of sound bites over the last 20 years of Obama's life -- such bad editing that you can hear where the clips had to be cut short to avoid the context of the bite, which would reveal that he wasn't saying what the editor was trying to say at all. With a video-editor, inordinate amounts of free time, and a twisted brain, an editor can put together a video to make Mother Theresa appear to say "I worship the devil" if they wanted to. It proves nothing. And that you are taken in by such circus tricks is embarrassing more than anything else.

There are plenty of things Obama has done -- REALLY done and said -- that should concern Americans. His war-mongering against Muslims comes to mind. (How could he be a Muslim if he's so hell-bent on killing so many of them?) His extension of the so-called "Patriot Act" to chip away at our rights in the name of security. The way he holds the American people hostage, negotiating with congress over our well-being as if we owe him something. THAT is real, and THAT is something to be upset about.

Why make-up monsters that live in the closet when there are real monsters walking the halls?

Secondly, your view of Muslims is tainted and disturbing. Muslims, like Christians, come in all shapes and sizes. There are Muslims who hate Americans and want to kill them all (like the terrorists who flew planes into the Twin Towers on 9-11), and there are Muslims who love Americans, respect Christians, Jews, and those of other religions, and have no problem getting along with people from different faith. There are many more of the latter than the former, but of course no one is going to write a news story about the Muslim who didn't blow anything up, didn't murder or plot to murder, didn't do anything but live a normal and respectful life. Why would anyone write about that? So if you don't know any Muslims, you might think they're all like the ones who get written about -- who do horrific things.

Consider it from a non-Christian view. There are Christians who picket the funerals of hero soldiers with disgusting hateful signs. There are Christians who beat or kill gays, Jews, doctors, or anyone they don't like. They call themselves Christian, they claim that name, and anyone who has never met a "real" Christian would have no way to know that this is not standard behavior for Christians, because the news doesn't generally report the millions of Christians who don't cause problems or go against the grain.

While their underlying reasoning may have some basis in proper Christian theology, you and I know that the Westboro crowd, or the kooks who bomb abortion clinics, do NOT represent the majority of Christians, who would rather preach against the sins of homosexuality or abortion through love and understanding than hate and murder. But how would someone who doesn't know anything about Christianity know that, from the way the media portrays us?

In the same way, we only hear about the Muslim terrorists because there's no reason to report on the millions of Muslims who aren't. Yes, I disagree with Muslims in their core beliefs -- they are wrong on a good many theological issues. But they are not evil, any more than Jews are evil, and Jews are just as wrong on theology. Or Pagans, or Buddhists, or any other non-Christian religion.

Again, quit looking under your bed and behind curtains for monsters. There are plenty of monsters standing right in front of you. If you care to join the fight, rather than invent imaginary demons, I and other Christians would welcome your help in the real battle against the real demons of hate, injustice, and abuse of power. Let us know when you're ready to be a grown-up.

 

[Therapon]

Let us know when you're ready to be a grown-up.

Well, I'll try, though it may be a little too soon for me, I'm only 85. And such sound and fury in so many words; my, my, it just boggles my infantile mind.

But I just have to ask, could I be in the presence of someone who actually believes that a quacking bird with a yellow bill and webbed feet is really a kangaroo? You might do well to consider the possibility that the Muslim practice of "yaqiyya" is being employed by our most august elevated leader. Oops, sorry, I learned on the Internet that nothing but truth comes out of the White house.

I couldn't care less if you disliked the editing, Mr. O said what he said . . . vews that no true Christian who loves ther Lord would ever voice and your defense of those who hold those same views makes me wonder about you.

 

[Therapon]

Why do you care so much?

Because Islam had destroyed the culture and religious practices of every country they entered and eventually controlled. Islam is not interested in coexistance. The Koran commands all Muslims to wage jihad until the whole earth becomes an Islamic Califate ruled by them.

I love Jesus, just as many Americans do, so I don't want ithat to happen here.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Well, I'll try, though it may be a little too soon for me, I'm only 85. And such sound and fury in so many words; my, my, it just boggles my infantile mind.

But I just have to ask, could I be in the presence of someone who actually believes that a quacking bird with a yellow bill and webbed feet is really a kangaroo? You might do well to consider the possibility that the Muslim practice of "yaqiyya" is being employed by our most august elevated leader. Oops, sorry, I learned on the Internet that nothing but truth comes out of the White house.

I couldn't care less if you disliked the editing, Mr. O said what he said . . . vews that no true Christian who loves ther Lord would ever voice and your defense of those who hold those same views makes me wonder about you.

Wow, it must be nice to be so certain of what God has planned for everyone else on the planet.

I would recommend you not go around deciding who is fit for heaven and who isn't. God doesn't take kindly to people who try to usurp His authority.

People like you give Christianity a bad name.

 

[RickShafer]

Grunge speaks again for the downtrodden.......
She sticks up again for the status quo.
Think it not strange the fiery trials of standing for something other than the majority Therapon.
There will always be those who have a 'grunge' against it.

 

[Therapon]

Think it not strange the fiery trials of standing for something other than the majority Therapon. There will always be those who have a 'grunge' against it.

I've been in the ministry for about 40 years, but never among the "approved" majority. if you'd read any of my books or Bible prophecy Study Guides, you'd know that I'm iprobably in the smallest eschatological minority on this forum. I'm just tired of those lengthy diatribes that assume I believe or teach doctrines that I actually abhore.

 

[Therapon]

Wow, it must be nice to be so certain of what God has planned for everyone else on the planet. I would recommend you not go around deciding who is fit for heaven and who isn't. God doesn't take kindly to people who try to usurp His authority. People like you give Christianity a bad name.

It is almost impossible for me to believe that you would publically write those things to a retired pastor who has been serving the Lord longer than you haver beem alive. Your accusations are absolutely not true and I'm sorry you believe them. If you think they are, prove it from any of my published writings. You can download, for FREE, any oif my essays or books still in print from www.fishhouseministries.com. You could even watch some of my videos on YouTube.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

If you think they are, prove it from any of my published writings.

I don't have to go to your books or videos to prove it. Just in this thread, you have not only accused Barack Obama of not being Christian (despite his very clear assertions that he is), and you have even stated you doubt that I am a Christian. Unless you want to make some case that you didn't actually write those things yesterday, there is all the proof one needs to see that you have usurped God's authority and made judgment's about the salvation of others who are children of God.

If you are truly "sorry" that I believe these things to be true, then recant and apologize. As long as you stand by your statements of judgement of other people's salvation, my statements are absolutely true, whether you like them or not.

Don't like what you see in the mirror? Not my problem.