Paul did NOT die to the law!

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Dec 21, 2012
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First let's read what Jesus tells us about keeping His laws;
John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
[31] But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


Those commandments that Jesus was talking about was believing in Him because verse 16-17 is a promise of the permament indwelling Holy Spirit for those that obeyed His commandments stated in verse 15 as mentioned to believe Him in verse 1, 10,11,& 12.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[12] This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Jesus tells us who is identified as a child of His.
No. Jesus was mentioning on how to abide in Him: not for salvation, but that we may bear fruit in verse 8 and that our joy may be full in verse 11 as His disciples.

Now let's read what others have said....

Rom. 7
[12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
You are cherry picking again, taking those verses out of context. Paul said in context that he could not keep the law because of his sinful nature.


Rom. 13
[9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Do note that keeping the sabbath day is not one of the commandments required in loving others.

1 John 3:23 states Romans 13:9 that as one commandment to be found abiding in Him. The other was believing Jesus Christ.

1 John 2
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
John was addressing believers in the previous chapter that were living in sin as if sin was no longer sin anymore which is why John referred to how Jesus had walked for how we are to walk to abide in Him.

1 John 3
[23] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[24] And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3 stated that the commandments were not grievous which John mentioned them earlier as you had quoted him in 1 John 3:23.



Sure sounds like a good way to be identified as a child of God.
If you stick to the context, yes, but you are not doing that. You are refrring to the law of the Old Covenant, and you have yet to explain away the verses in post #380 that has Paul speaking of not being identified with the law as it was more than just the sacrificial system.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
soooo.... are you abstaining from fornication?
i am.

what's next on the list?
LET'S HAVE THE LIST.

i'll go through it and you can tell me if i'm in by works of the Law, okay?


God has already given us HIS list. All you have to do is to go back and read it.


.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Really? Satan flees? Satan tempted JESUS! And you believe that you are NOT tempted by the things of this world? Let's read if Paul was tempted....

Rom.7
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Does this sound like a man that was not tempted? Let's continue....

[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul tells us that at times he knows to do good, but sometimes he does those things that he knows he should not do. Let's read more...

[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul was in a constant battle with doing right or doing wrong.

But you claim that you are NOT tempted by the things of this world?
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I'm an old man, I'm not interested in committing adultery with my neighbours wife etc.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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I'm an old man, I'm not interested in committing adultery with my neighbours wife etc.
ROFL
The older you get, the less you are tempted-I concur heartily
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest


Those commandments that Jesus was talking about was believing in Him because verse 16-17 is a promise of the permament indwelling Holy Spirit for those that obeyed His commandments stated in verse 15 as mentioned to believe Him in verse 1, 10,11,& 12.



No. Jesus was mentioning on how to abide in Him: not for salvation, but that we may bear fruit in verse 8 and that our joy may be full in verse 11 as His disciples.



You are cherry picking again, taking those verses out of context. Paul said in context that he could not keep the law because of his sinful nature.




Do note that keeping the sabbath day is not one of the commandments required in loving others.

1 John 3:23 states Romans 13:9 that as one commandment to be found abiding in Him. The other was believing Jesus Christ.



John was addressing believers in the previous chapter that were living in sin as if sin was no longer sin anymore which is why John referred to how Jesus had walked for how we are to walk to abide in Him.



1 John 5:3 stated that the commandments were not grievous which John mentioned them earlier as you had quoted him in 1 John 3:23.





If you stick to the context, yes, but you are not doing that. You are refrring to the law of the Old Covenant, and you have yet to explain away the verses in post #380 that has Paul speaking of not being identified with the law as it was more than just the sacrificial system.


Man! You guys really go out of your way to not having to keep God's laws.

Let me ask you this.... Did Paul teach keeping God's laws? Did Paul tell others to keep God's laws?

This is as simple as it gets.....either he did or he did not!

What say ye?


.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Paul said:

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace(Rom6:14)

So you believe sin shall not be a persons master because animal sacrifices have been done away with

Can you explain why this is?

Thanks
Hope you're going to answer the above

And why are the sinful passions in us aroused by animal sacrifices/burnt offerings?
Rom7:5
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I'm doing just fine. I'm doing my best to do God's will. And His will is for me to do my best at obeying Him. He gave man His laws to obey....so that is what me and my family try our best to do. Do God's will. Obey and keep His commandments.

Now let's look at Gal.

Gal.3
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What law of God was added to His other laws because those other laws continued to be broken? What law was only to be around until Christ came?

Gal.3
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Which law was added 430 years after God's already existing laws?

Which laws were no longer needed when Christ died?
doing your best?
your best isn't good enough.
if it wasn't good enough for Shaul, you're not going to make it.
why did those under The Law need redeeming?

why didn't God just keep accepting animals and not bothering suffering on the Cross?


no rabbi.
the question is WHICH COVENANT IS IN EFFECT.

question: do you think this is talking about Arabs?
is it talking about pagan laws & customs?

who is the son of the slave woman who shall not inherit with the son of the free woman?
who is the free woman?



Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

12Brothers,c I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong. 13You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, 14and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. 15What then has become of the blessing you felt? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me. 16Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?d 17They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. 18It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose, and not only when I am present with you, 19my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! 20I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
I'm an old man, I'm not interested in committing adultery with my neighbours wife etc.

Paul nor I said anything about being tempted by the opposite sex. You are avoiding answering. You claimed the following;

" The thing is if I have my eyes fixed on Jesus, then I won't be tempted by the things of this world."
To which I replied;

Really? Satan flees? Satan tempted JESUS! And you believe that you are NOT tempted by the things of this world? Let's read if Paul was tempted....

Rom.7
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Does this sound like a man that was not tempted? Let's continue....

[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul tells us that at times he knows to do good, but sometimes he does those things that he knows he should not do. Let's read more...

[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul was in a constant battle with doing right or doing wrong.

But you claim that you are NOT tempted by the things of this world?
.

Jesus was tempted. Paul was tempted.

But "PS"....YOU are not tempted by the things of this world?


.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Man! You guys really go out of your way to not having to keep God's laws.

Let me ask you this.... Did Paul teach keeping God's laws? Did Paul tell others to keep God's laws?

This is as simple as it gets.....either he did or he did not!

What say ye?


.

This is what Paul wrote

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law(SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS) but that which is by faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

Simple isn't it.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
why didn't God just keep accepting animals and not bothering suffering on the Cross?


no rabbi.
the question is WHICH COVENANT IS IN EFFECT.

You guys really need to do more studying and praying for wisdom and understanding. Do you not know why God did not keep accepting animals? God tells us in His word. In the NT even!

And as far as which covenant is is effect.....the same one that was in effect during Moses day! Did you not know this?


.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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695
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Paul nor I said anything about being tempted by the opposite sex. You are avoiding answering. You claimed the following;

To which I replied;

Jesus was tempted. Paul was tempted.

But "PS"....YOU are not tempted by the things of this world?

.
Not really, I can't think of anything I want other than for my daughter and grandchildren to be happy.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Man! You guys really go out of your way to not having to keep God's laws.

Let me ask you this.... Did Paul teach keeping God's laws? Did Paul tell others to keep God's laws?

This is as simple as it gets.....either he did or he did not!

What say ye?


.
And you are going out of your way to exalt the law of keeping the sabbath day while ignoring the words of Jesus on the matter on how He is Lord of the Sabbath and why the words of Paul defers from being identified with the works of the law.

Did Jesus say plainly to keep the sabbath day? No.

Did Paul said plainly to keep the sabbath day? No.

Anywhere in the NT was there any instructions to keep the sabbath day? No.

Over & over again, believers have been warned about abstaining from fornication, but not once do we see any emphasis on keeping the sabbath day so that Gentile believers will know to do this as well.

So ask Jesus for help to address what Paul was saying in post #380 or you are the one avoiding the issue here, brother.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
This is what Paul wrote

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law(SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS) but that which is by faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

Simple isn't it.
Why do you not answer the questions?

Did Paul teach keeping God's laws? Did Paul tell others to keep God's laws?

This is as simple as it gets.....either he did or he did not!


I'm not asking what his reasons may have been.....I'm just asking if Paul taught, told or encouraged others to keep God's laws?

What say ye?

.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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.YOU are not tempted by the things of this world?
how many times do you have to be told when you try to live by the written Law you'll be tempted?
LOL.

aaahhh.....old age.

man, i feel sorry for your kids.
they must be sinning like crazy in their minds if you're hammering them with the Law.
 
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Jan 11, 2013
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You guys really need to do more studying and praying for wisdom and understanding. Do you not know why God did not keep accepting animals? God tells us in His word. In the NT even!

And as far as which covenant is is effect.....the same one that was in effect during Moses day! Did you not know this?


.

So what does this mean then?

Your covenant with death will be annulled
Your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isiaih28:18

And this

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares the Lord
I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

When is the covenant mentioned in Isiaih to be annulled, and when is the one mentioned in Jeremiah and Hebrews to commence?
Thanks
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
And you are going out of your way to exalt the law of keeping the sabbath day while ignoring the words of Jesus on the matter on how He is Lord of the Sabbath and why the words of Paul defers from being identified with the works of the law.

Did Jesus say plainly to keep the sabbath day? No.

Did Paul said plainly to keep the sabbath day? No.

Anywhere in the NT was there any instructions to keep the sabbath day? No.

Over & over again, believers have been warned about abstaining from fornication, but not once do we see any emphasis on keeping the sabbath day so that Gentile believers will know to do this as well.

So ask Jesus for help to address what Paul was saying in post #380 or you are the one avoiding the issue here, brother.

First of all....what does the sabbath have to do with my questions?


Did Paul teach keeping God's laws? Did Paul tell others to keep God's laws?


.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
So what does this mean then?

Your covenant with death will be annulled
Your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isiaih28:18

And this

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares the Lord
I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

When is the covenant mentioned in Isiaih to be annulled, and when is the one mentioned in Jeremiah and Hebrews to commence?
Thanks


put the crown on it just for you markster ol' chap
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
@ Eccle

Let me ask you this, suppose I was younger say 20 and I go to work, lets say I go the pub, but I was tea-total anyway, watch TV, have a game of cricket, go orienteering, the occasional half marathon, running every evening, out in the countryside taking photographs, doing my own printing and developing, designing, building and repairing electronic equipment etc, what laws am I breaking?
 
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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
You guys really need to do more studying and praying for wisdom and understanding. Do you not know why God did not keep accepting animals? God tells us in His word. In the NT even!

And as far as which covenant is is effect.....the same one that was in effect during Moses day! Did you not know this?
.
That would be the covenant that was made with Abraham 430 years earlier.