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Paul and I answered your question
The Gentiles knew the law as you and the Gentiles today know the law Christians and non Christians
The Gentiles knew the law as you and the Gentiles today know the law Christians and non Christians
If a Gentile Christian does not follow all of the Mosaic law, bar burnt offerings, do you believe they are wilfully, deliberately sinning by not doing so?
I am happy to leave it up to the independant observer as to whether they believe you have plainly answered the question
This was the question
If a Gentile Christian does not follow all of the Mosaic law, bar burnt offerings, do you believe they are wilfully, deliberately sinning by not doing so?
If a Gentile Christian does not follow all of the Mosaic law, bar burnt offerings, do you believe they are wilfully, deliberately sinning by not doing so?
Where is your scriptures?
What man Jew or Gentiles should follow he burnt offerings?
Provide scripture
This was the question
If a Gentile Christian does not follow all of the Mosaic law, bar burnt offerings, do you believe they are wilfully, deliberately sinning by not doing so?
I am happy to leave it up to the independant observer as to whether they believe you have plainly answered the question
If a Gentile Christian does not follow all of the Mosaic law, bar burnt offerings, do you believe they are wilfully, deliberately sinning by not doing so?
I am happy to leave it up to the independant observer as to whether they believe you have plainly answered the question
Romans 6:14 (KJV)
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What law?
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Paul and I answered your question
Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to meet the leaders of the church. A meeting was called to discuss which Jewish laws the Gentile converts should be asked to keep/follow
Four were decided upon, three of which are widely believed to have been suggested to appease Jewish legalists
I guess to you the leaders of the early Christian church, which included many of Christ's disciples(Peter and James were there) as well as Paul, failed abysmally in their duty to the Gentile converts and led to them living a life of sin
OK
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Well you believe Paul and Peter answered the question?
Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to meet the leaders of the church. A meeting was called to discuss which Jewish laws the Gentile converts should be asked to keep/follow
Four were decided upon, three of which are widely believed to have been suggested to appease Jewish legalists
I guess to you the leaders of the early Christian church, which included many of Christ's disciples(Peter and James were there) as well as Paul, failed abysmally in their duty to the Gentile converts
OK
Why do you read any books of the NT past the Gospels as you must believe they failed woefully in their duty
Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to meet the leaders of the church. A meeting was called to discuss which Jewish laws the Gentile converts should be asked to keep/follow
Four were decided upon, three of which are widely believed to have been suggested to appease Jewish legalists
I guess to you the leaders of the early Christian church, which included many of Christ's disciples(Peter and James were there) as well as Paul, failed abysmally in their duty to the Gentile converts
OK
Why do you read any books of the NT past the Gospels as you must believe they failed woefully in their duty
I read all the bible
The law and the testimony
I read all the bible from Genesis to Malachi
Paul taught the Gentiles the scriptures which is from Genesis to Malachi
A lot of people don't know this
There was no NT written when the apostles walked the earth
So common sense lets us know that they read the OT!
Do you understand this?
Put the verses to back up your statement because I see some error in your understanding
I read all the bible
The law and the testimony
I read all the bible from Genesis to Malachi
Paul taught the Gentiles the scriptures which is from Genesis to Malachi
A lot of people don't know this
There was no NT written when the apostles walked the earth
So common sense lets us know that they read the OT!
Do you understand this?
I read all the bible
The law and the testimony
I read all the bible from Genesis to Malachi
Paul taught the Gentiles the scriptures which is from Genesis to Malachi
A lot of people don't know this
There was no NT written when the apostles walked the earth
So common sense lets us know that they read the OT!
Do you understand this?
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
James speaking19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
That is very clear and plain IOG
Well you believe Paul and Peter answered the question?
Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to meet the leaders of the church. A meeting was called to discuss which Jewish laws the Gentile converts should be asked to keep/follow
Four were decided upon, three of which are widely believed to have been suggested to appease Jewish legalists
I guess to you the leaders of the early Christian church, which included many of Christ's disciples(Peter and James were there) as well as Paul, failed abysmally in their duty to the Gentile converts and led to them living a life of sin
OK
Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to meet the leaders of the church. A meeting was called to discuss which Jewish laws the Gentile converts should be asked to keep/follow
Four were decided upon, three of which are widely believed to have been suggested to appease Jewish legalists
I guess to you the leaders of the early Christian church, which included many of Christ's disciples(Peter and James were there) as well as Paul, failed abysmally in their duty to the Gentile converts and led to them living a life of sin
OK
Somebody is lying
Is it the
The RCC
The Orthodox
The Protestants
So which early church Fathers are you referring to?
The early church fathers did not start on the day of Pentecost
The early church fathers were before the flood people like Enoch and his fathers
Or the church that was in the wilderness with Moses
Acts 7:38 (KJV)
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
What church fathers are you talking about?
No I don't understand it. I'll quote the text:
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
James speaking19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
That is very clear and plain IOG
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
James speaking19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
That is very clear and plain IOG
We have a people here who drink blood
Worship idols
Cheat on there wives or mess around with boys or men
So this being the case they break the 1st commandments about having other God's before Jesus they break the law about adultery, homosexuality and no drinking of blood was instituted in Noah's day
Now take a look at this verse when it comes to circumcision
Ezekiel 44:9 (KJV)
Thus saith the Lord God ; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
The Gentiles are strangers
And this is when Jesus is here on earth in his temple in his kingdom
Now what will the uncircumcised gentile do?
Back to your verses
Which law is a yoke ?
It's very clear that these Gentiles had major problems as the Israelites decided not to hit them with all the law
Yes it is very plain
We have a people here who drink blood
Worship idols
Cheat on there wives or mess around with boys or men
So this being the case they break the 1st commandments about having other God's before Jesus they break the law about adultery, homosexuality and no drinking of blood was instituted in Noah's day
Now take a look at this verse when it comes to circumcision
Ezekiel 44:9 (KJV)
Thus saith the Lord God ; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
The Gentiles are strangers
And this is when Jesus is here on earth in his temple in his kingdom
Now what will the uncircumcised gentile do?
Back to your verses
Which law is a yoke ?
It's very clear that these Gentiles had major problems as the Israelites decided not to hit them with all the law
We have a people here who drink blood
Worship idols
Cheat on there wives or mess around with boys or men
So this being the case they break the 1st commandments about having other God's before Jesus they break the law about adultery, homosexuality and no drinking of blood was instituted in Noah's day
Now take a look at this verse when it comes to circumcision
Ezekiel 44:9 (KJV)
Thus saith the Lord God ; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
The Gentiles are strangers
And this is when Jesus is here on earth in his temple in his kingdom
Now what will the uncircumcised gentile do?
Back to your verses
Which law is a yoke ?
It's very clear that these Gentiles had major problems as the Israelites decided not to hit them with all the law
So you obviously believe the people present at that meeting, which included Peter, James, Paul and many of Christ's disciples were in grevious error, and woefully failed in their duty to the Gentile converts by telling them they need only follow four Jewish laws, and thus in your opinion were guilty of encouraging them to live a life of sin
I understand your position now
No I don't understand it. I'll quote the text:
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
James speaking19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
That is very clear and plain IOG
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
James speaking19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
That is very clear and plain IOG
I think you better understand that these laws that the Gentiles were breaking and God's commandments were around in adam day and before
Immorality was in Sodom
Eating blood was told to Noah
Idol worship was before the Israelites
These are reason God flooded the earth
The law did not start with Moses
In other words my Brother there were no gentiles or Israelites when the law was instituted here was man
So you obviously believe the people present at that meeting, which included Peter, James, Paul and many of Christ's disciples were in grevious error, and woefully failed in their duty to the Gentile converts by telling them they need only follow four Jewish laws, and thus in your opinion were guilty of encouraging them to live a life of sin
I understand your position now
I understand your position now
What I' m saying is you are in error and I proved it
I hope you understand this!
Brother
I think you better understand that these laws that the Gentiles were breaking and God's commandments were around in adam day and before
Immorality was in Sodom
Eating blood was told to Noah
Idol worship was before the Israelites
These are reason God flooded the earth
The law did not start with Moses
In other words my Brother there were no gentiles or Israelites when the law was instituted here was man
I think you better understand that these laws that the Gentiles were breaking and God's commandments were around in adam day and before
Immorality was in Sodom
Eating blood was told to Noah
Idol worship was before the Israelites
These are reason God flooded the earth
The law did not start with Moses
In other words my Brother there were no gentiles or Israelites when the law was instituted here was man
As you feel unable to answer the questions put, I will leave it there. But I am grateful I understand your position now
Where did I say this?
What I' m saying is you are in error and I proved it
I hope you understand this!
What I' m saying is you are in error and I proved it
I hope you understand this!