'Reasoned' into Faith?

[lesjude]

oh really.
tell me what salvation and discipleship look like lesjude.

skip salvation....go directly to discipleship.

X out church i guess.
X out being cheerful givers
X out realizing one dies
X out being comforted or aware that being absent from the body is present with the Lord

so whatya got for discipleship then lesjude.

You can start by doing what Romans 10:9-10 says, then receive water baptism in Jesus name believing Romans 6:1-14 , and ask and receive Acts 2:4.

Then do what Romans 12:1 says so Romans 12:2 is possible. Then do what Romans 10:17 and Jude 20 say.

Then you will be ready for training James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7, Romans 5:3-4 in Bible faith Hebrews 11, the principles of Christian behavior in Matthew 5, 6, and 7, and the joy of the death of the self life Matthew 5:11-12 and Luke 14:25-33.

During all this you should be doing Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8 at every opportunity everywhere you go.

The Holy Spirit will show you exactly how much, to who, what, and when to give. He will have placed you in a NT local assembly that He directs you to that does this: Ephesians 4:11-16 and has these gifts in operation to edify the assembly 1 Corinthians 12.

There is more but this is enough to get started.

 

[zone]

You can start by doing what Romans 10:9-10 says, then receive water baptism in Jesus name believing Romans 6:1-14 , and ask and receive Acts 2:4.

lesjude disqualified for instructing me on discipleship due to appeal to glossolalia.
thanks anyhow.
i was a pagan before i got saved.
why go back?
bye then

 

[lesjude]

lesjude disqualified for instructing me on discipleship due to appeal to glossolalia.
thanks anyhow.
i was a pagan before i got saved.
why go back?
bye then

2 Corinthians 7:1

New King James Version (NKJV)

7 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[lesjude]

Im sorry your wrong and right. Alot of the things the church does or has done
in trying to follow the instructions in scripture have worked and led to salvation.
Not for all. Sure the tares will be sown in, or false confessions. So.
You getting cynical about it dont mean much.

Christ is never interested in salvation/converts only disciples. He is not interested in quantity but quality and is NOT user friendly in the least. Denominations are called CARNAL in the Bible and as such can only produce carnal Christians who may or may not qualify for 1 Corinthians 3:15 salvation. Please click on the link below and read.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/56361-lot-carnal-christian.html#post888155

 

[Bookends]

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. James 4:8

I know James is talking to those already in the Church, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please give one scripture that any sinner would find reasonable.

Your joking right? If a sinner can not find many verses in scripture reasonable. then there would be NO ONE SAVED.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That means less than nothing to a sinner. Saved? From what? Just go try it out for yourself on one.

Saved from what?

You ever read Romans 1. Every man KNOWS he is rightly judged for sin, having no excuse. So if they can know they are rightly Judged, they can KNOW they NEED SAVED.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Only because He was drawn by effective grace as the predestined elect of God.
1 Corinthians 3:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
Here is election in Jesus' words:

John 6:65-66

New King James Version (NKJV)

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

effective grace? Where is this in scripture?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isaiah 1:18, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

Matthew 11:28-29

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


These verses drew me. And sounded very reasonable when i was a lost sinner.

These Got me.

For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in me will never perish but has eternal life.

For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God

for by grace you have been saved by faith, and not of yourselves, it is the GIFT OF GOD, not of works, lest any man should boast

I can name many many more that Got me to look at Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly. You were drawn by the Holy Spirit or you would have NEVER seen this as one bit rational. It was the foolishness of preaching that the Holy used not your reason.

John 16:8-10 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Seems the HOLY Spirits job is to convict the whole world of unbelievers of this truth. This the whole world is given the capacity to understand.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, God did not look down history and choose those who would choose Him. That would be a work by the person and not sovereign grace.

1. Says who, You?
2. What was Gods will from the beginning of time? Gen 3: 15 shows us immediately after sin entered the world and God confronted it that a savior would come who would defeat the power of satan. Jesus explains what this plan was. For God so loved the world, he sent his only son, That whoever he chooses, will never parish?? What kind of God do you think he is?? and why do you want to twist scripture and add to the word> He did not say this, he said WHOEVER BELIEVES WILL NEVER DIE!

Sinners will ALWAYS choose to continue sinning as a free will choice.

What does this have to do with being saved? no one can STOP sin until AFTER they are saved. so stopping sin is not the Gospel. thus your reasoning has no merit. Of course they will nto stop sin, this does not mean they can not KNOW they are judged by that sin, in fact scripture says they not only can know, THEY DO KNOW. and thus are left with no excuse

They hear the general call of the gospel and ALWAYS reject it UNLESS they receive effective grace and then they will receive and believe because they are God's predestined elect before the foundation of the earth. As you said God knows them. That is because He chose them sovereignly before creation. The Bible teaches nothing else. If grace is not sovereign it is not grace but dependent on a choice of men.

Again I ask where this word "effective grace" is in the word of God?

I guess God made them robots, and forced them to believe, and forced other to not have a chance to believe, Yep, God is a fair and loving God

No reason is "sound" to a sinner.

Your a sinner, I guess the word of God must still be foolishness to you. Again your reasoning is flawed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All those scripture refer to the preaching of the Gospel not logical argument.

And why do we preach the gospel? So people can have a choice to chose God or not. If they are already predestined to believe based solely on Gods choice alone, their is no need to preach the gospel to the whole world. Yet once again, your logic crumbles on its face

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. James 4:8

I know James is talking to those already in the Church, but I thought it was interesting.

It is interesting. It also seems to point to the fact that a child of God can wander away from God. thus he has to be reminded to draw near to him!

 

[zone]

Denominations are called CARNAL in the Bible and as such can only produce carnal Christians who may or may not qualify for 1 Corinthians 3:15 salvation.

in many cases that is sadly true.
what would your assessment of a 'denomination' like this one be?
carnal at all?


Hobart Freeman and Faith Assembly

Faith Assembly, also known as "Glory Barn," is a cult based in the area around Warsaw, Indiana. It was by Hobart Freeman. Members are discouraged from seeking medical attention on the grounds that only God can heal, and that the use of medicine is evidence of lack of faith.

Several newspaper accounts claim that over 52 people have died as a result of the teachings of Faith Assembly. Most of them were infants and children. Reporters Jim Quinn and Bill Zlatos of the FORT WAYNE NEWS-SENTINEL have stated:

Only a small fraction of the 52 known victims were old enough to understand the teachings of Faith Assembly. An even smaller fraction made their own decision to shun medical treatment.

One victim asked for a doctor a few hours before her death, but no doctor arrived because her husband and friends decided prayer was best for the woman. They prayed for her for hours after she had died.

Routine medical procedures could have prevented many of the deaths.

Cult Help and Information - Hobart Freeman and Faith Assembly < click

 

[Abiding]

1. Says who, You?
2. What was Gods will from the beginning of time? Gen 3: 15 shows us immediately after sin entered the world and God confronted it that a savior would come who would defeat the power of satan. Jesus explains what this plan was. For God so loved the world, he sent his only son, That whoever he chooses, will never parish?? What kind of God do you think he is?? and why do you want to twist scripture and add to the word> He did not say this, he said WHOEVER BELIEVES WILL NEVER DIE!



What does this have to do with being saved? no one can STOP sin until AFTER they are saved. so stopping sin is not the Gospel. thus your reasoning has no merit. Of course they will nto stop sin, this does not mean they can not KNOW they are judged by that sin, in fact scripture says they not only can know, THEY DO KNOW. and thus are left with no excuse



Again I ask where this word "effective grace" is in the word of God?

I guess God made them robots, and forced them to believe, and forced other to not have a chance to believe, Yep, God is a fair and loving God


Your a sinner, I guess the word of God must still be foolishness to you. Again your reasoning is flawed.

It baffles me so many believe that some things are works. You were correct going back to
Genesis. Reminded me of Cain and Able and their sacrifices(works). One had faith the other didnt.
Not sure everyone here understands the Power of the Word of God. Especially the ones throwing
the carnal word around. The Holyspirit and the Word are One.

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It baffles me so many believe that some things are works. You were correct going back to
Genesis. Reminded me of Cain and Able and their sacrifices(works). One had faith the other didnt.
Not sure everyone here understands the Power of the Word of God. Especially the ones throwing
the carnal word around. The Holyspirit and the Word are One.

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Amen, reminds me of a few other things

You are CLEAN by the WORDS I have spoken.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. We can not have faith apart from the word. the two go hand in had. In fact, our faith is IN THE WORD.

 

[lesjude]

Your joking right? If a sinner can not find many verses in scripture reasonable. then there would be NO ONE SAVED.

No one is UNLESS the Holy Spirit gives grace. Sinners will NEVER choose to stop sinning on their own.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one is UNLESS the Holy Spirit gives grace. Sinners will NEVER choose to stop sinning on their own.

God gives grace to everyone, the mere fact everyone has life, is living and breathing, and given a chance to repent is by the grace of God. so your reasoning lacks any reason

Do we have to stop sinning before we are saved? where do you get this? If you are saying this. Then your gospel is not from God. if your not saying this, then your reasoning is seriously flawed.

 

[lesjude]

God gives grace to everyone, the mere fact everyone has life, is living and breathing, and given a chance to repent is by the grace of God. so your reasoning lacks any reason

This is His goodness to ALL men. It is NOT saving or effective grace. Only the predestined elect get that. The rest hear the general call but freely choose to continue in sin. No sinner without that SOVEREIGN grace will ever choose Jesus.

Do we have to stop sinning before we are saved? where do you get this? If you are saying this. Then your gospel is not from God. if your not saying this, then your reasoning is seriously flawed.

No, you have to KNOW you are one and going to hell without Jesus as Lord and savior. Every sinner believes in his heart he really is a good person and deserves to go to heaven. Read the obits or the paid adds addressed to dead loved ones "in heaven" if you doubt it. Every sinner can find someone worse than he is not knowing Jesus is the standard. He is on the path that "seems right to a man".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is His goodness to ALL men.

which is called grace

It is NOT saving or effective grace.

Which is not found in scripture. Just your made up words. Grace is grace is grace.

Only the predestined elect get that. The rest hear the general call but freely choose to continue in sin.

Again with the sin word. You must like that. They do not continue in sin because they choose to. they do it because they can not do anything else. They have to be born again before they can do this. and this will not happen until they are justified by faith.

No sinner without that SOVEREIGN grace will ever choose Jesus.

No such thing as soverign grace, We are ALL deserving of eternal damnation. thus we are all in the same boat. No one is more less deserving of grace than anyone else.

No, you have to KNOW you are one and going to hell without Jesus as Lord and savior.

According to romans 1. everyone knows this

Every sinner believes in his heart he really is a good person and deserves to go to heaven. Read the obits or the paid adds addressed to dead loved ones "in heaven" if you doubt it. Every sinner can find someone worse than he is not knowing Jesus is the standard. He is on the path that "seems right to a man".

Read romans 1. and you will learn WHY they do this. It is not because they do not know. But they do not want to know. It does not mean no one can ever know. if no one could ever know. as I said, no one would ever be saved, the law as a schoolmaster would be useless.