Natural faith,Supernatural faith, or Both?

seed_time_harvest · Jan 22, 2013

I wanted to ask a question about faith.

When we were reborn,did we use a natural faith,a supernatural faith,or both natural faith and supernatural faith?

I know there are those on christian chat that are very helpful in helping us to be sure about these scriptures,so before i get into error,i just thought i better ask here first.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23:Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
what if someone were to say +++( If its not your own faith,then how do you get faith)?
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I was thinking that faith will come when you hear and understand the word of GOD.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

SPUZIT · Jan 22, 2013

Eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrvccccchhhh. You were answering your own question there for awhile, then you lost me or did you get lost.. good verses. Just not sure if one " not meaning you of course" anyway if one needs to ask then did they really become saved in the first place? Guess that's between them & God. I know when I was saved Jesus was there holding me next to God thru his salvation because I felt it., Sputz

Elin · Jan 22, 2013

seed_time_harvest said:

I wanted to ask a question about faith.

When we were reborn,did we use a natural faith,a supernatural faith,or both natural faith and supernatural faith?

I know there are those on christian chat that are very helpful in helping us to be sure about these scriptures,so before i get into error,i just thought i better ask here first.

Ephesians 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23:Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
what if someone were to say +++( If its not your own faith,then how do you get faith)?
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I was thinking that faith will come when you hear and understand the word of GOD.

Mark 4:15And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Faith is a gift (Php 1:29; Ac 13:48).

You can't even see the kingdom of God (understand what it means) until you are born again (Jn 3:3).

seed_time_harvest · Jan 22, 2013

Elin said that faith is a gift,and i believe i received this faith.GOD provided the grace and the faith.

crossnote · Jan 22, 2013

As Peter, so us.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 16:15-17)

Cobus · Jan 23, 2013

Seed_time_harvest. When are we REBORN? At the beginning of sanctification, or at the end? When do we recieve the FAITH that is not tossed to and fro by all the winds of doctrine?

I say you have the idea of REBORN (BORN OF GOD) wrong, that is why you do not understand the FAITH part. Faith that God gives as a gift is as strong and stronger as the faith that Jesus had shown us, He says so HIMSELF. Did Jesus not say to His disciples if they had faith the size of a mustard seed they can move mountains? Well that should give you an idea of how powerful the gift of FAITH is in 1 Cor 12. One of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit.

God says ths about faith in Ephesians 4.... ONE FAITH..... Let me ask you this.... how powerful is this ONE FAITH God talks about here? Would you say it is a perfect faith? God says we should KEEP the FAITH OF JESUS! He talks about a MOST HOLY FAITH.... This is the FAITH that Jesus said... EVEN A MUSTARD SEED SIZE IS ENOUGH to move a mountain! And it would do MORE than what HE DID.

When do we get that faith? When God gives us the REBIRTH OF CHRIST JESUS IN US.... Born of God (1 John 3:9) Born of Spirit(John 3) Reborn (John 3) And VERY few has this faith, becasue VERY FEW are reborn.

crossnote · Jan 23, 2013

never. mind.

starfield · Jan 23, 2013

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God- According to this passage, salvation is the gift of God, not faith. Faith is developed by hearing the word of God and it is the means to receive the gift of salvation.

If God gives faith to be saved, why doesn't He give everyone faith to be saved? I mean it is His will that all are saved, however not everyone will be saved. If one holds that Ephesians 2:8 alludes to faith being the gift of God then they're delving into the doctrine of predestination unto salvation holding that God grants faith to an elect group and withholds it from others. If God predestined some to salvation before the foundation of the world, sent His Son to die for them only, and then gives them faith to be saved, then that contradicts several passages about the atonement of Christ for all, the all-inclusive invitation for salvation, His desire that none should perish but that all come to repentance, and His command that all men believe to be saved.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord- Salvation and eternal life are gifts of God, not faith.

Therefore, I conclude that rather than God giving some faith to be saved and withholding it from others, He has provided us with a way to build our faith (Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God). The sinner, out of their free will, has to exercise faith in God in order to be saved. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that faith is God's responsibility/gift to man to be saved, rather, from Genesis to Revelation, faith has been man's responsibility, and the purpose of preaching the gospel to the unsaved is for them to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved. The sinner comes to the throne of grace with a broken and contrite heart, recognizing their need for the Savior, and believing in Him and He does the supernatural work of saving and gets all the glory.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

seed_time_harvest · Jan 23, 2013

Hello Cobus
my understanding is that we are reborn when we hear the word of GOD and understand the truth of it.

I wanted to ask about the faith part.when the bible says if we have faith the size of a mustard seed,
we can move mountains,

Does this mean our human natural faith and GOD provides the rest of the Faith?<~~~~ this is what i believe

Thre reason i was asking is because some people that i know say that the faith is our part and grace is GODS part.

Thanks .I like your answer.I used the word of GOD and maybe i still interpreted wrong.

seed_time_harvest · Jan 23, 2013

Thanks starfield
I didn't see your post until after i posted to cobus.i really like your post,but i still think that Faith is a gift.

the reason i think this is because the bible said that you are saved by grace,but it also said through faith,
and faith is a fruit of the spirit.

crossnote · Jan 23, 2013

Mt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar–jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

sounds like faith is a gift to me. Even God's word as well as Him opening our eyes to His Person as in the above passage.

Abiding · Jan 23, 2013

faith being a gift may be true but in itself is nothing. Peter being given revelation hasnt to do with faith
more like grace or as it says "blessed" fortunate or well off.

The opening of the eyes itself isnt faith either. Or they would have never died in the wilderness.
And we could walk by sight. And Satan wouldnt have fallen.

Faith is simply the God given ability to take Him at His word and live accordingly. Without proof.
Its something that comes from(meaning mixed with) our personal will. We are asked/commanded to have faith "in God"

eternally-gratefull · Jan 23, 2013

Abiding said:

The word faith itself means to be fully assured, That one deems the person he is trusting trustworthy, or able to fulfill his pledge. As apposed to mere belief, which has no assurance.

In this light, if we would use these defenitions in place of the word. we would get things like this.

for By Grace we have been saved through Faith or the assurance that God is a trustworthy God and fully capable of doing what he pledged to do. and not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should be puffed up in pride.

starfield · Jan 23, 2013

seed_time_harvest said:

The bible talks about several types of faith. I was referring to saving faith that leads to regeneration (Eph 2:8), not the fruit of the Spirit faith. The scripture says that salvation is received by personal faith in Jesus, not God instilling faith in them to be saved. Act 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Here, the Philippian jailer was told to exercise faith in Jesus to be saved. He was not told to wait for God to instill faith in Him as a gift.

The fruit of the Spirit faith is demonstrated as a result of the indwelling Holy Spirit in believers (Gal 5:22). It is continuous, practical, and an evidence of regeneration and maturation- obedience to God’s word, and it is the result of walking in the Spirit. Then there is the special gift of faith which not all believers have but it is available for every believer after being endowed with power from the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:9). This spiritual gift of faith is subsequent to the gift of salvation and it is like the faith Abraham and Sarah demonstrated (a supernatural ability to believe in God in difficult times) and that of prophet Elijah. It is also a mountain-moving faith that enables the believer to perform miracles through the power of God in them. Lastly, there is the faith James talks about, which he compares to that of demons, that lacks obedience to God’s word (James 2:19, 26); it is just mere belief.

crossnote · Jan 23, 2013

I believe regeneration and saving faith initially happen simultaneously as a result of the power inherent in God's Word to bring about what is from what wasn't. In other words God's Word in the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation enlightening and quickening our previously dead souls unto rebirth.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
(Heb 11:3)

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(Rom 1:16)

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
(Joh 6:63)

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
(1Pe 1:23)

Cobus · Jan 24, 2013

seed_time_harvest. Thank you for your time and good nature with this thread. Born again.... If we look at the concept of BORN AGAIN, and God speaks also of a BORN OF GOD.... Born of Spirit, we HAVE to know this is the same EVENT!

When I look at the Word of God and I ask.... When dos God put HIS Spirit in me? Oh my firend this is where so many people part their ways.... When does God fill a person with the Holy Spirit? Remember this... God CANNOT lie, so if God says a person is FULL of the Holy Spirit, He means FULL.

Now I ask this.... when a person is full of the Holy Spirit, how holy is that person? Does that holiness EVER leave that person again? I know we had to recieve A SPIRIT, to be alive when we were born, but the BORN again, is NOT the same spirit of a man that is BORN AGAIN, it is the BORN AGAIN SPIRIT OF GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT, that is Born again. I am not born again it is Christ Jesus that is BORN IN ME. Not me born in me Christ Jesus born in me.

Let me tell you why I think it is at the end of our sanctification period..... There comes a time in EVERY saved person's ife that God BAPTIZE that person. And because God teaches us HE baptizes with Holy Spirit, we know that that is the baptism God speaks about in Eph 4. The ONE baptism. Now, if God does baptize a person with HIS Holy Spirit, what actually happens there? Is this not the REBIRTH of Christ Jesus in that person? God said, He will give a person a NEW heart, and a NEW Spirit, and that person will then have a heart that DOES ONLY GOD'S will.

So this is how I understand salvation.... God calls a person, God lead that person through his sanctification, God cleanse that person 100% and then God baptize that person to REMAIN holy forever. That person will be holy, because that person baptism with Holy Spirit, will keep that person holy FOREVER. He will die a holy man, and the spirit of that person will still be HOLY as God is Holy, because that Spirit of the man is the Holy Spirit!

The baptism of Holy Spirit, the rebirth and the Born of God, the sanctification completion, the making Holy, all that is done the moment God puts that NEW heart, and New Spirit, in the NEW CREATURE that is recreated in the EXACT image of His Son.

I hope I said it in a way that you will not misunderstand me. If you do have any questions, I will gladly answer them with scripture.
God said this about new creature ... Old things have passed, behold EVERYTHING IS MADE NEW!

seed_time_harvest · Jan 24, 2013

starfield said:

Hello starfield
i should have asked the question---what is human faith? and what is supernatural faith,
because i do believe you have to here the word and understand it,before you can be reborn.

i believe that a human natural faith is not going to be assured in what it can't see,taste,hear,smell or feel(the 5 senses).

this is why i was asking---when JESUS said if you have the-- faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains.was he talking about our human faith mixed with his supernatural faith?

don't get me wrong though.i do agree after reading your post again.

GOD bless

seed_time_harvest · Jan 26, 2016

I should have asked the question---what is human faith? and what is supernatural faith,
because I do believe you have to hear the word and understand it, before you can be reborn.

I believe that a human natural faith is not going to be assured in what it can't see, taste, hear, smell or feel(the 5 senses).

This is why I was asking---when JESUS said if you have the-- faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains.Was he talking about our human faith mixed with his supernatural faith?

FreeNChrist · Jan 26, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

I should have asked the question---what is human faith? and what is supernatural faith,
because I do believe you have to hear the word and understand it, before you can be reborn.

I believe that a human natural faith is not going to be assured in what it can't see, taste, hear, smell or feel(the 5 senses).

This is why I was asking---when JESUS said if you have the-- faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains.Was he talking about our human faith mixed with his supernatural faith?

It's our faith. I have no idea what supernatural faith is.

Grace777x70 · Jan 26, 2016

I think we live by the faith of Christ..which we have inside of us now because of Him in our new man..the new creation..we hear of Him and it immediately brings faith..it's up to us to respond and enter in..

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Natural faith,Supernatural faith, or Both?

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