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Then let me put it another way. In your opinion does God command all Christians, whether Jew or Gentile to have their sons circumcised on the eighth day and to obey all of the Mosaic law apart from burnt offerings?
And is this therefore what you would stress all Christians must do, whether Jew or Gentile?
And is this therefore what you would stress all Christians must do, whether Jew or Gentile?
E
To those that are reading this thread, let's do some more reading. Let's fast forward to a time in the future. Let's read one of the requirements that WILL be needed in order to serve the Lord. But first let's find who MUST serve the Lord;
First let's set this up by finding out what time is being spoken of;
Zech.14
[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
So we know this is when the Lord returns to rule on this earth for 1000 years. Now let's read WHO will worship the Lord;
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
So we see that God stays true to His word. He told us that His feast days were to be kept FOREVER and we find when He returns they YET will be kept. But more importantly notice WHERE ALL nations will worship; in Jerusalem at the temple.
Notice also that worshiping the Lord will NOT be an option. God's word tells us that ALL nations will come before Him to worship.
Now let's read what the requirement will be for worshiping the Lord..again....let's set up just when this is;
Ezek.43
[7] And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Ezek.44
[1] Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
[2] Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
[3] It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
So we know when Jesus returns He will live here on earth with man FOREVER!
So we already know that ALL nations must worship Him, now let's find what the requirement will be for doing so....
Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
Now if ALL nations are to keep the feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem, but NONE that are "...uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in FLESH...", can enter...what does that tell you?
Now....let's look at the question presented to me once again;
"After having become a Christian, is the christian to have his sons circumcised on the eight day according to Law?"
And AGAIN...because I know God's word I say the following;
After having become a Christian, and as one grows in the knowledge of God and His word, a Christian should do as God commands!
Because if you do NOT do as God commands you will NOT be able to do as He says; WORSHIP HIM!
.
First let's set this up by finding out what time is being spoken of;
Zech.14
[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
So we know this is when the Lord returns to rule on this earth for 1000 years. Now let's read WHO will worship the Lord;
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
So we see that God stays true to His word. He told us that His feast days were to be kept FOREVER and we find when He returns they YET will be kept. But more importantly notice WHERE ALL nations will worship; in Jerusalem at the temple.
Notice also that worshiping the Lord will NOT be an option. God's word tells us that ALL nations will come before Him to worship.
Now let's read what the requirement will be for worshiping the Lord..again....let's set up just when this is;
Ezek.43
[7] And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Ezek.44
[1] Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
[2] Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
[3] It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
So we know when Jesus returns He will live here on earth with man FOREVER!
So we already know that ALL nations must worship Him, now let's find what the requirement will be for doing so....
Ezek.44
[9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
Now if ALL nations are to keep the feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem, but NONE that are "...uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in FLESH...", can enter...what does that tell you?
Now....let's look at the question presented to me once again;
"After having become a Christian, is the christian to have his sons circumcised on the eight day according to Law?"
And AGAIN...because I know God's word I say the following;
After having become a Christian, and as one grows in the knowledge of God and His word, a Christian should do as God commands!
Because if you do NOT do as God commands you will NOT be able to do as He says; WORSHIP HIM!
.
HI eccl
Could you just plainly answer the following highlighted question posed please. I am sure you would want people to plainly understand your beliefs on such an important subject. It only requires a yes or no response
Thanks
Zone asked:
n.m.
your posts are miles long and always end with pressing questions the reader is to answer.
i'm okay with that. but my question was simple.
perhaps not straightforward enough.
maybe i'm dense, but i guess i'll just ask outright: after having become a Christian, is the christian to have his sons circumcised on the eight day according to Law, and proceed to live by the all Law of Moses [minus the animal sacrifices of course]?
(that's not a two part question)
Could you just plainly answer the following highlighted question posed please. I am sure you would want people to plainly understand your beliefs on such an important subject. It only requires a yes or no response
Thanks
Zone asked:
n.m.
your posts are miles long and always end with pressing questions the reader is to answer.
i'm okay with that. but my question was simple.
perhaps not straightforward enough.
maybe i'm dense, but i guess i'll just ask outright: after having become a Christian, is the christian to have his sons circumcised on the eight day according to Law, and proceed to live by the all Law of Moses [minus the animal sacrifices of course]?
(that's not a two part question)
A
Eccl what does this verse mean? that you posted:
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, "as when He fought in the day of battle." what does "as" mean?
What "battle?"
Also show in those contexts where it says 1000 years. ty
My point is that your making doctrine based on an eschatological view using
OT prophecies that your adding scenarios to that arnt in the text.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, "as when He fought in the day of battle." what does "as" mean?
What "battle?"
Also show in those contexts where it says 1000 years. ty
My point is that your making doctrine based on an eschatological view using
OT prophecies that your adding scenarios to that arnt in the text.
ECCL
We all know what you actually believe. A Christian, whether Jew or Gentile is required to have their son circumcised on the eighth day and to obey/follow all of the Mosaic law apart from burnt offerings. And you have also plainly stated a persons righteousness is obediance to the law.
Your problerm is, you know very well these beliefs go directly against what the Apostle Paul plainly taught, hence, your reluctance to state publically your private beliefs. As you feel you cannot state what you believe to be the truth, I will draw the obvious conclusions.
As you know, the leaders of the Jerusalem church, many of whom had been Christ's disciples met with Paul and Barnabas, and it was decided the Gentile converts be asked to obey/follow four Jewish laws, three of which it is fair to say were to appease Jewish legalists.
Therefore, according to your beliefs they were makiing decisions in direct opposition to God's commands, there's no way round that I'm afraid
So if you had consitency in your beliefs, as Peter, Paul and James were present at that meeting you would have no choice but to dismiss their Epistles, that's at least 20 books of the NT. Because obviously you could not accept the writings of people who failed so miserably(in your opinion) to tell the Gentile converts the commands God required them to follow.
And my only, and I mean only, reason for pushing this, is so people will not become crushed by the demands of people who do not follow what they require of others. That is my concern here.
Now this is what Paul wrote concerning people who stressed others must be circumcised:
See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!
12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[b] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.
17 Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.
I am fortunate, I have been a Christian for many years and would not be taken in by your deceptions, IT is my sincere hope others will not be either.
As you obviously are not prepared to answer simple questions put to you, of great importance relating to this thread I see no point in further discussion with you, it is up to others how they view your reluctance to respond to the oft put question
However, your silence is testimony to your impossible position scripturally
We all know what you actually believe. A Christian, whether Jew or Gentile is required to have their son circumcised on the eighth day and to obey/follow all of the Mosaic law apart from burnt offerings. And you have also plainly stated a persons righteousness is obediance to the law.
Your problerm is, you know very well these beliefs go directly against what the Apostle Paul plainly taught, hence, your reluctance to state publically your private beliefs. As you feel you cannot state what you believe to be the truth, I will draw the obvious conclusions.
As you know, the leaders of the Jerusalem church, many of whom had been Christ's disciples met with Paul and Barnabas, and it was decided the Gentile converts be asked to obey/follow four Jewish laws, three of which it is fair to say were to appease Jewish legalists.
Therefore, according to your beliefs they were makiing decisions in direct opposition to God's commands, there's no way round that I'm afraid
So if you had consitency in your beliefs, as Peter, Paul and James were present at that meeting you would have no choice but to dismiss their Epistles, that's at least 20 books of the NT. Because obviously you could not accept the writings of people who failed so miserably(in your opinion) to tell the Gentile converts the commands God required them to follow.
And my only, and I mean only, reason for pushing this, is so people will not become crushed by the demands of people who do not follow what they require of others. That is my concern here.
Now this is what Paul wrote concerning people who stressed others must be circumcised:
See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!
12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[b] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.
17 Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.
I am fortunate, I have been a Christian for many years and would not be taken in by your deceptions, IT is my sincere hope others will not be either.
As you obviously are not prepared to answer simple questions put to you, of great importance relating to this thread I see no point in further discussion with you, it is up to others how they view your reluctance to respond to the oft put question
However, your silence is testimony to your impossible position scripturally
Last edited:
E
Who knows what battle. The scripture does not say. It could have been the battle against Satan and his angels, or any of the other battles the Lord helped the nation of Israel with.
And concerning the 1000 years...just logic is all that is needed.
At some point Jesus IS going to rule here on earth for 1000 years. If you cannot understand that when Jesus returns He is NOT leaving, as per the scriptures, I'll let you plug in when He is going to rule for 1000 years.
So that's it? So nothing else? Nothing about Ezek.44:9?
.
And concerning the 1000 years...just logic is all that is needed.
At some point Jesus IS going to rule here on earth for 1000 years. If you cannot understand that when Jesus returns He is NOT leaving, as per the scriptures, I'll let you plug in when He is going to rule for 1000 years.
So that's it? So nothing else? Nothing about Ezek.44:9?
.
Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
A
Oh man, that was not very good. If the bible gives information to help us understand
and you scoff and call it unimportant how do u expect anyone to believe you where
you insert 1000 years that isnt there?
Anyway the day of battle is referred to elsewhere in the bible if you should ever care.
And my point will be that He fought the battle, but He wasnt physically present. So go back
to the verse that stipulated "as"
Strict Literal View
Zechariah 14 will happen in the future and has to be fulfilled literally in all aspects. It will begin at the return of Christ and will be a partial destruction after which the earth will be refurbished and the survivors go into the millennial reign. The end of the world, as described by other prophets, will occur 1000 years after that.
Near/far Fulfillment View
Zechariah 14 is a ‘near/far fulfillment prophecy.’ The initial fulfillment was the destruction of Jerusalem by armies in AD70 followed by the spread of the gospel (in symbolic language) throughout the Church age. However this early fulfillment prefigures a final and complete destruction which happens at Christ’s return.
That was just to show you theres more than one view. But really its even more complicated than that.
To be using that to make doctrine is rather risky.
Also the feasts of Tabernacles has already been fulfilled......memo:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt(tabernacled) among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. 11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Gal5:7-12
Gal5:7-12
E
All of God's high days will be kept when Jesus returns;
Zech.14
[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
All of God's laws will be kept when Jesus returns.
Even the Levitical Priesthood will be brought back when Jesus returns.
You guys don't know this?
.