Garden

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nathan3

Guest
#21
The point that I am trying to make here is that Adam was to die, not Eve. The death was spiritual. Eve would not have suffered if she had not blamed the serpent. Her punishment is one. Childbirth. Adam's punishment was three-fold.

Gen 3:15 KJV - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Gen 3:17 KJV - And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying,


Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;


Gen 3:19 KJV - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

verse 19 was the only punishment that was to be imposed. It was his iniquity that caused the rest.

I see where the problem is... You quoted the first prophecy about Christ and Satan in The Bible. And your attributing that prophecy as having to do with Adam, and again ignoring the Serpents existence recorded in connection to these events in these scriptures.


Gen 3:15 KJV - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If you follow the genealogy of Adam and Eve; you would see Christ came from Eve , Generation through Generation.

The Heel bruised here is Christ heel when He was nailed to the Cross. The head here, is the Serpents head. Christ will bruise his head to death, at the end of all things when he is put into the lake of fire in Revelation.


Adams head will not be bruised by Christ. Because Adan was deceived along with Eve.

Also We just read in Genesis 2:24

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

They are one flesh as God says. You see they went on to have children.


So why would God say in Gen 3:15 - I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.


But you did mention Adams sentence here :

Gen 3:17 KJV - And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying,


Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


But the sentence in Gen 3:15 is not about Adam. The subject was set already before it. The subject is the Serpent.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#22
There is no question that the serpent was real. It just can not be proven that it is Satan. But scripture proves that it was God in the serpent.
What do you mean it cant be proven ? Micheal the arch angel, sent from God himself. Gives you all of The Serpents names in Rev 12. Then how can you say then. it cant be proven.. Your right. it cant be proven for some one that over reads Rev 12: 7-9. That is the only way I can see your statement as possible.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#23
But scripture proves that it was God in the serpent.
I gave scripture that connects the names in Rev 12: 7-9. And it was pretty clear .... But can you give scripture for your quote there ; that is as clear as the Rev 12 quote ?
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#24
So explain this.

Jhn 10:34 KJV - Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Isa 41:23 KJV - Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye [are] gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold [it] together.

Psa 82:6 KJV - I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Gen 3:5 KJV - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

To know good and evil is to see through the eyes of God, discerning the truth.
The serpent was finishing the cause. The only one that can finish God's work, is God.

This means, you belong to God. Not that you're literally a god. You belong to God it means


Ezekiel 18:4 King James Version

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

we are all God's children, as it says there in Psalms 82:6 you quoted. Not that your a god yourself. Christ clears it up in the rest of his statement :


John 10:
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

you belong to God.

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

scripture cant be broken.

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


We're all' children of God. Christ is the Son of God as we all are. But, He is the only begotten, that is a difference.


Keep in mind Satan made this statement here in Gen 3:5 KJV - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. - The Serpent said they would be like gods....

But God told them they would die.
 
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#25
It is my understanding, that Adam told her not to touch it. It was Adam that was to die, not physically, but spiritually. Having been given the commandment from God, it was his duty not to eat of it.

What I find fascinating, is why he needed help.
Adam had already eaten from the tree.

Gen 2:16 KJV - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

There is a span of time between verses 16 and 17.

Gen 2:17 KJV - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Look at it like this. You are left in a room full of food. You take a cookie and eat it. The other person comes back and says, "Don't eat any cookies."
Do you tell the person that you did. I think not.

Of course God knows that Adam had already eaten the fruit. And he also knows that Adam wants more of it. This is why he gives him the animals. Adam watches the animals and sees that the animals are living in the tree, and eating the fruit.

In comes woman.

Adam is not lonely here. He doesn't know any other way. So why is God giving him companionship?
He's not. He's giving him an out. A way to get what he wants. God has spoken, and is not going to change his mind. He knows that Adam still wants the fruit, but is obedient. So God gives him an escape-goat. EVE.

Gen 3:12 KJV - And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 KJV - And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Neither took the blame, but what Adam says is key.

Bottom line here is:

God needed Adam to sin in order make the cross work. No sin. No need for the cross.
So he planted the iniquity in Adam. "I need that fruit."

Job 31:33 KJV - If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

Adam begins to plot his way to the tree. He can't use the animals, so he uses the woman.

1Ti 2:14 KJV - And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The woman was in the transgression. Adam blames the woman, (of whom he deceived,) and she blames the serpent, making her a part of the transgression.
There is no Sdriptural basis for your assertion that "God planted iniquity in Adam."

That is human thinking, it is not Biblical thinking.
 
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#26
The Lord in his word tells us the same thing over and over again so we understand. He is the same yesterday to day and forever so many times he would have warned them about the tree. Eve also had firsthand knowledge to not eat from the tree.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God ( name of creation and judgment) really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’

YHVH (LORD) is the name of relationship or covenant . The first thing Satan wanted to do was to break the relationship he did not use the word YHVH ( only people know God on this level).
Genesis 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 butGod did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.
Eve said God said, She heard this from The LORD God she did not say Adam said God said. Then she called the LORD God just God she took this cue from Satan and came out from under the safety of the relationship with the LORD God. Then she did what was right in her own eyes . She did what she thought strengthened God’s warning about the tree. She believed her own word’s above God and that weakened rather than strengthen the warning.
Genesis 3:4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
When Satan could see that he had change Eve’s relationship with God and she was now using her own mind to fight him he could appeal to her own desires and that is what he did. He uses God again to keep Eve from thinking of the LORD as her friend who she can trust.
He kill relationship = You will not certainly die you can’t trust him
He goes in with covet what is not yours = your eyes will be opened, Open your eyes and look at the fruit and what it can do for you. It is not yours ( steal it) but take it what you will get is worth it.
He goes into destroy anything left that might make her think she needs God = you will be like God
He hit her with lust of the eyes, the flesh and pride of life so that he could take everything from her. He came to kill steal, and destroy.
Adam was with her and was not deceived 1 Timothy 2:14
Adam is the first one who sinned he was put in the garden to work and to guard it. When the test came to see if he would obey the Lord and guard what was put into his hand. He obeyed Eve instead his pure devotion to God change to a devotion to Eve. He willfully sinned against God knowing the truth not being deceived but choses his wife over God. He sinned by not guarding the Garden and obeying his wife over God.

Genesis 2:15 The LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden in order to have him work it and guard it.
He chose the creature over the Creator, which is idolatry.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#27
The point that I am trying to make here is that Adam was to die, not Eve. The death was spiritual. Eve would not have suffered if she had not blamed the serpent. Her punishment is one. Childbirth. Adam's punishment was three-fold.

Gen 3:15 KJV - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:17 KJV - And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:19 KJV - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

verse 19 was the only punishment that was to be imposed. It was his iniquity that caused the rest.
You have confused the judgment on Satan in Ge 3:15, with the judgment on Adam in Gen 3:17.

Your misunderstanding of the creation account is great.
 
L

layman316

Guest
#28
Gen 2:16 KJV - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Gen 2:17 KJV - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Notice the wording here.

Gen 3:2 KJV - And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 KJV - But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

First of all, God never told Adam, "neither shall ye touch it".
Second of all, God didn't tell Eve she would die.

1Ti 2:14 KJV - And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Eve was not deceived by the serpent. She was deceived by Adam. Adam was the one who told Eve not to eat or touch the fruit or she would die. Eve's transgression was taking the word of Adam, and not turning to God.

Job 31:33 KJV - If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

Adam's iniquity was wanting to keep the woman in the garden. His transgression was telling her falsely, she would die.

And now the kicker:

Gen 3:4 KJV - And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 KJV - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

To know good and evil, is a good thing. How else can we discern between the two? If we don't know evil, we can't avoid it, or confront it.

So why is it that Satan would want them to eat of the fruit?
_


1. Both were commanded not to eat of the tree.
2. Eve was deceived by the serpent.

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

3. Eve told the serpent that God said not to eat from the eat or touch it. I'm sure God told them a lot of things that were not written down.

Gen 3:9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" Gen 3:10 He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself." Gen 3:11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

4. God did command Adam not to eat from the tree.

Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Gen 3:14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;

5. God acknowledges that the serpent deceived Eve.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#31
The serpent did not deceive, he corrected.
The Bible says the serpernt decieved Eve. I posted the verse. You have no grounds of
disputing it. You either can not understand the KJV which the verse was
posted in, or your pride is getting in the way. You have it in your ability to overcome
both.
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#32
I see where the problem is... You quoted the first prophecy about Christ and Satan in The Bible. And your attributing that prophecy as having to do with Adam, and again ignoring the Serpents existence recorded in connection to these events in these scriptures.


Gen 3:15 KJV - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If you follow the genealogy of Adam and Eve; you would see Christ came from Eve , Generation through Generation.

The Heel bruised here is Christ heel when He was nailed to the Cross. The head here, is the Serpents head. Christ will bruise his head to death, at the end of all things when he is put into the lake of fire in Revelation.


Adams head will not be bruised by Christ. Because Adan was deceived along with Eve.

Also We just read in Genesis 2:24

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

They are one flesh as God says. You see they went on to have children.


So why would God say in Gen 3:15 - I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.


But you did mention Adams sentence here :

Gen 3:17 KJV - And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying,


Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


But the sentence in Gen 3:15 is not about Adam. The subject was set already before it. The subject is the Serpent.
The enmity is the old sin nature which was imputed into the DNA of the male. This old sin nature is why the indwelling could not happen before the body of Christ. There was no male DNA, therefor, no old sin nature.

The verse about the serpent was clearly stated. However, the next verse, (15), speaks of the man.
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#33
What do you mean it cant be proven ? Micheal the arch angel, sent from God himself. Gives you all of The Serpents names in Rev 12. Then how can you say then. it cant be proven.. Your right. it cant be proven for some one that over reads Rev 12: 7-9. That is the only way I can see your statement as possible.
The serpent took on this role in verse 14.
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#34
This means, you belong to God. Not that you're literally a god. You belong to God it means


Ezekiel 18:4 King James Version

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

we are all God's children, as it says there in Psalms 82:6 you quoted. Not that your a god yourself. Christ clears it up in the rest of his statement :


John 10:
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

you belong to God.

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

scripture cant be broken.

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


We're all' children of God. Christ is the Son of God as we all are. But, He is the only begotten, that is a difference.


Keep in mind Satan made this statement here in Gen 3:5 KJV - For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. - The Serpent said they would be like gods....

But God told them they would die.
So, who said ye are gods????
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#35
He chose the creature over the Creator, which is idolatry.
He did this being blinded by iniquity. If he had given the desires to God, his eyes would have been open and he would have been shown what was going on.
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#36
1. Both were commanded not to eat of the tree.
2. Eve was deceived by the serpent.

Gen 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

3. Eve told the serpent that God said not to eat from the eat or touch it. I'm sure God told them a lot of things that were not written down.

Gen 3:9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" Gen 3:10 He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself." Gen 3:11 And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

4. God did command Adam not to eat from the tree.

Gen 3:13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
Gen 3:14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;

5. God acknowledges that the serpent deceived Eve.
She says "God hath said", but she then directly misquotes God. He did not say, "neither shall ye touch it."
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#37
The Bible says the serpernt decieved Eve. I posted the verse. You have no grounds of
disputing it. You either can not understand the KJV which the verse was
posted in, or your pride is getting in the way. You have it in your ability to overcome
both.
Perhaps your eyes are open and refuse to see.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#38
Gen 2:16 KJV - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Gen 2:17 KJV - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Notice the wording here.

Gen 3:2 KJV - And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 KJV - But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

First of all, God never told Adam, "neither shall ye touch it".
Second of all, God didn't tell Eve she would die.

1Ti 2:14 KJV - And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Eve was not deceived by the serpent. She was deceived by Adam. Adam was the one who told Eve not to eat or touch the fruit or she would die. Eve's transgression was taking the word of Adam, and not turning to God.
"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures." (Mt 22:29)

"Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning. . ." (2Co 11:3)

Job 31:33 KJV - If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

Adam's iniquity was wanting to keep the woman in the garden. His transgression was telling her falsely, she would die.
Again, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures." (Mt 22:29)
God's word written disagrees with you on two points:

1) Adam was not created with iniquity.

"God saw all that he had made, and it was very good." (Ge 1:31)

No iniquity there.

2) And there is no inquity apart from transgression of the law, because iniquity (Gr. anomia) means transgression of the law (1Jn 3:4).
It was not Adam's "wanting" that was iniqiuity, but Adam's actual transgression of God's law, "Thou shalt not eat of it," that was his iniquity.

It is absurd to say that Adam was created with iniquity.
Iniquity is transgression of God's law (1Jn 3:4).
How could Adam transgress God's law before he was created, so that he was created in transgression (iniquity)?

And now the kicker:

To know good and evil, is a good thing. How else can we discern between the two? If we don't know evil, we can't avoid it, or confront it.

So why is it that Satan would want them to eat of the fruit?
Satan wanted them to disobey God and suffer the consequences of God's judgment on their sin of disobedience.

It is my understanding, that Adam told her not to touch it. It was Adam that was to die, not physically, but spiritually. Having been given the commandment from God, it was his duty not to eat of it.

What I find fascinating, is why he needed help.
Adam had already eaten from the tree.

Gen 2:16 KJV - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

There is a span of time between verses 16 and 17.

Gen 2:17 KJV - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Again, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures." (Mt 22:29)

Scripture states neither that Adam had already eaten from the tree, nor a lapse of time between vv. 16 and 17.

1) Look at it like this. You are left in a room full of food. You take a cookie and eat it. The other person comes back and says, "Don't eat any cookies."
Do you tell the person that you did. I think not.
Of course God knows that Adam had already eaten the fruit. And he also knows that Adam wants more of it.

2)This is why he gives him the animals. Adam watches the animals and sees that the animals are living in the tree, and eating the fruit.

3) In comes woman.

Adam is not lonely here. He doesn't know any other way. So why is God giving him companionship?
He's not. He's giving him an out. A way to get what he wants. God has spoken, and is not going to change his mind. He knows that Adam still wants the fruit, but is obedient. So God gives him an escape-goat. EVE.

Bottom line here is:

4) God needed Adam to sin in order make the cross work. No sin. No need for the cross. So he planted the iniquity in Adam. "I need that fruit."
None of the four points above are found in the Scriptures.
They are pure conjecture by you.

Job 31:33 KJV - If I covered my transgression as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:
Again, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures." (Mt 22:29)

This verse plainly states that Adam's iniquity was his transgression of God's law, "Thou shalt not eat of it."
Adam's iniquity was not his "wanting" the fruit.

You misunderstand and misuse Job 31:33 to support your conjecture.

"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures." (Mt 22:29)

"Do not go beyond what is written." (1Co 4:6)
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#39
Where in the book does it say that the serpent was Satan?
"Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning. . ." (2Co 11:3)

No sin was allowed in the garden.
Then God didn't create Adam with iniquity if no sin was allowed in the garden, and you are
contradicting yourself.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#40
ye are gods means --- you belong to God. Like you ye are Job's you belong to Job. its just the wording is throwing you here