Perfection in the Flesh - A Modern Strawman - Heresy of Penal Substitution
- Thread starter Skinski7
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Also if penal sub was true, then it totally negates biblical repentance, so as you can see error builds on more error, producing a totally different gospel!
Gal 1:6 I marvel that you so soon are being moved away from Him who called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is not another, but some are troubling you, and desiring to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that you so soon are being moved away from Him who called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is not another, but some are troubling you, and desiring to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
does this poster actually go on to say he is indeed without sin and completely righteous?
clearly if the answer is yes, confession of sins is not needed.
in fact confession of sins at the Throne of Grace before the High Priest would be a sign one is not saved.
confession of sins would not cleanse one of any unrighteousness, since all sin stopped before justification.
the High Priest's Role is nullified.
this poster does not sin, and therefore does not confess sin.
have we gotten any answers on the righteous deeds yet?
clearly if the answer is yes, confession of sins is not needed.
in fact confession of sins at the Throne of Grace before the High Priest would be a sign one is not saved.
confession of sins would not cleanse one of any unrighteousness, since all sin stopped before justification.
the High Priest's Role is nullified.
this poster does not sin, and therefore does not confess sin.
have we gotten any answers on the righteous deeds yet?
So faith without works is dead also.
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(James 2-20-26)…
Today faith as described in the word of God has taken on many different forms that can easily confuse anyone truly searching for truth. Faith has been so very misrepresented by many well-meaning and not so well meaning Bible teachers and scholars that there are many false and dangerous teachings on this simple act of obedience.
As you can see from the great example set forth by Abraham and Rahab, on what a real saving faith is, it seems near impossible for anyone who has some discernment to not see how obedience and faith go hand in hand, together, two peas in a pod, and mesh as one fine oiled machine when used and put into action as an act of obedience to the commands of God.
I won’t go into every aspect of the above powerful verses, I just encourage you to read them apart from your conceived notions that you were born a sinner, totally depraved, and now faith to you is some forensic ideal that was already done when you said I accept Jesus!
Yes, faith is a work, a working faith through love, where you love God supremely as commanded, and obey His commands from a heart made pure through repentance, and obedience to the truth.
So as we can see Abraham obeyed God from his heart, for He loved God supremely, he did what God told Him to do, no questions asked, thus this obedience was imputed or put onto him as righteousness.
This blows the myth that Jesus did it all in advance, and that faith is just a passive notion that has no dynamics working behind it such as, purity, obedience, synergy (working together with God to produce something powerful together) righteousness, justified by works (deeds) and not faith alone.
But many who profess Christ today have a dead faith, either by sheer laziness or ignorance , or have sat under the repeat after me teachers, who boldly claim faith and obedience are not the same, where obedience was done for them through the provision Jesus somehow made for them, and now their faith equal’s the faith of the demons.
Abraham, Rahab, Job, Noah, Daniel, Joseph and many others God used mightily, all produced the deed or works of faith; they obeyed God from their heart, and great love and fear of His awesome power, producing a perfect upright walk with Him.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Faith is a work, we must do to please God, it’s a command not a side issue reserved only for the obedient saints in the Bible, but for all who come to Christ as commanded, by faith, with an obedient heart, that can only come through real repentance and faith proven by deeds!
So the next time you want to scream “It’s not of works” remember to be very sure you know what works the word of God is talking about, as clearly portrayed and lived out by Abraham, and many others God declared righteous by their working obedient faith!
To sum this us:
Faith is not passive; it is active, alive and ongoing!
Faith is a work, from the heart that obeys as commanded!
Faith is pleasing to the Lord, in fact He commands all His saints to walk by it, everyday!
Faith=Obedience!
Faith is imputed as righteousness to those who obey God!
Faith purifies the heart, made pure through repentance and clearing of wrong doing!
Faith can become shipwrecked by disobeying God, and following the flesh over the spirit!
There are many more strong examples of faith working through love in the word of God, many have read them and have gotten inspired by them, but the main concern is where your faith is?
In something that never happened, or a working, dynamic, obedient faith as laid out by many brave and godly men and women in the word of God!
And remember IF any of these men or women decided to disobey God, then God would have choose someone else to work with Him, as He is no respecter of persons, but His mercy and kindness is bestowed on the righteous, or the ones who are declared righteous by obeying Him through their heart, keeping His commands, and working together with Him to be counted worthy of their calling on the narrow road!
Act 15:9 And He put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith ((obedience).
Obedience matters, but it’s a free will choice God has given us, where He tests His saints to see if they are real, genuine, walking in the spirit, living a crucified life unto Him, obeying His commands each and every day, knowing that they can become disqualified IF they turn away from Him, seeking to obey their flesh and the many false doctrine’s that teach faith is already done for you in advanced, and any disobedience to God is just a speed bump, not a road block leading to spiritual death!
Tommy 1-29-13
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(James 2-20-26)…
Today faith as described in the word of God has taken on many different forms that can easily confuse anyone truly searching for truth. Faith has been so very misrepresented by many well-meaning and not so well meaning Bible teachers and scholars that there are many false and dangerous teachings on this simple act of obedience.
As you can see from the great example set forth by Abraham and Rahab, on what a real saving faith is, it seems near impossible for anyone who has some discernment to not see how obedience and faith go hand in hand, together, two peas in a pod, and mesh as one fine oiled machine when used and put into action as an act of obedience to the commands of God.
I won’t go into every aspect of the above powerful verses, I just encourage you to read them apart from your conceived notions that you were born a sinner, totally depraved, and now faith to you is some forensic ideal that was already done when you said I accept Jesus!
Yes, faith is a work, a working faith through love, where you love God supremely as commanded, and obey His commands from a heart made pure through repentance, and obedience to the truth.
So as we can see Abraham obeyed God from his heart, for He loved God supremely, he did what God told Him to do, no questions asked, thus this obedience was imputed or put onto him as righteousness.
This blows the myth that Jesus did it all in advance, and that faith is just a passive notion that has no dynamics working behind it such as, purity, obedience, synergy (working together with God to produce something powerful together) righteousness, justified by works (deeds) and not faith alone.
But many who profess Christ today have a dead faith, either by sheer laziness or ignorance , or have sat under the repeat after me teachers, who boldly claim faith and obedience are not the same, where obedience was done for them through the provision Jesus somehow made for them, and now their faith equal’s the faith of the demons.
Abraham, Rahab, Job, Noah, Daniel, Joseph and many others God used mightily, all produced the deed or works of faith; they obeyed God from their heart, and great love and fear of His awesome power, producing a perfect upright walk with Him.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Faith is a work, we must do to please God, it’s a command not a side issue reserved only for the obedient saints in the Bible, but for all who come to Christ as commanded, by faith, with an obedient heart, that can only come through real repentance and faith proven by deeds!
So the next time you want to scream “It’s not of works” remember to be very sure you know what works the word of God is talking about, as clearly portrayed and lived out by Abraham, and many others God declared righteous by their working obedient faith!
To sum this us:
Faith is not passive; it is active, alive and ongoing!
Faith is a work, from the heart that obeys as commanded!
Faith is pleasing to the Lord, in fact He commands all His saints to walk by it, everyday!
Faith=Obedience!
Faith is imputed as righteousness to those who obey God!
Faith purifies the heart, made pure through repentance and clearing of wrong doing!
Faith can become shipwrecked by disobeying God, and following the flesh over the spirit!
There are many more strong examples of faith working through love in the word of God, many have read them and have gotten inspired by them, but the main concern is where your faith is?
In something that never happened, or a working, dynamic, obedient faith as laid out by many brave and godly men and women in the word of God!
And remember IF any of these men or women decided to disobey God, then God would have choose someone else to work with Him, as He is no respecter of persons, but His mercy and kindness is bestowed on the righteous, or the ones who are declared righteous by obeying Him through their heart, keeping His commands, and working together with Him to be counted worthy of their calling on the narrow road!
Act 15:9 And He put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith ((obedience).
Obedience matters, but it’s a free will choice God has given us, where He tests His saints to see if they are real, genuine, walking in the spirit, living a crucified life unto Him, obeying His commands each and every day, knowing that they can become disqualified IF they turn away from Him, seeking to obey their flesh and the many false doctrine’s that teach faith is already done for you in advanced, and any disobedience to God is just a speed bump, not a road block leading to spiritual death!
Tommy 1-29-13
Hope this helps, and you can see we are talking about a heart made pure through a working faith or obedience to the truth.
Many on these posts have never crucified thier flesh on the cross with Christ, He diddnt do it for you like you are told by the false teachers.
we do it because we love and fear God, and have free will and ability to do so.
Gal 5:24
But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Many on these posts have never crucified thier flesh on the cross with Christ, He diddnt do it for you like you are told by the false teachers.
we do it because we love and fear God, and have free will and ability to do so.
Gal 5:24
But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
does this poster ever come forward and make a plain declaration of the day, hour and minute he knew he had received the Holy Spirit as the earnest of his inheritance because he had previously stopped all sin, and was a righteous doer of the Word?
that day and how he knew it ought to be coming forward soon as part of the answer to these questions:
that day and how he knew it ought to be coming forward soon as part of the answer to these questions:
perhaps they're not whitewashing.
i'm still waiting to see the actual answers and testimonies in response to these simple personalized questions, since the bold claim is these new christians are now (and must remain so until their dying breath in order for this soteriology to work):
without sin
doers of the word
holy in word thought and deed
righteous
straight forward answers, with proof (since part of the knowing one is now sinless and righteous is the evidence in their daily lives).
let's get the testimonies first, and then evidence from people who know them in their daily lives. i aksed this of one poster here and the request was denied. i then went looking for the evidence myself and found it.
nevertheless.....
let's get the testimonies first, and then evidence from people who know them in their daily lives.
isn't that how this works?
shouldn't that be easy and wouldn't these newly pure teachers want to give the licentious greasy grace harlot church every chance to see how it's done?
i still see no help for what ails us < BY EXAMPLE.
all i see are WORDS.
i'm still waiting to see the actual answers and testimonies in response to these simple personalized questions, since the bold claim is these new christians are now (and must remain so until their dying breath in order for this soteriology to work):
without sin
doers of the word
holy in word thought and deed
righteous
straight forward answers, with proof (since part of the knowing one is now sinless and righteous is the evidence in their daily lives).
let's get the testimonies first, and then evidence from people who know them in their daily lives. i aksed this of one poster here and the request was denied. i then went looking for the evidence myself and found it.
nevertheless.....
let's get the testimonies first, and then evidence from people who know them in their daily lives.
isn't that how this works?
shouldn't that be easy and wouldn't these newly pure teachers want to give the licentious greasy grace harlot church every chance to see how it's done?
i still see no help for what ails us < BY EXAMPLE.
all i see are WORDS.
I'm guessing I'm seeing this right. The three of them believe that if they have lustful thoughts, but do not act out physically on those lustful thoughts(in any way) they are pure and Holy and have put the flesh to death. I'm guessing this is what it comes down to.
They don't have to do any works as such as a Christian, in helping others, just crucify their own flesh, that's it.
The problem is, as Spurgeon said. If you struggle and defeat the flesh for a while, pride takes over and you're hit with that instead. No human perfection. Hence why we get demands made these people do not adhere to themselves. And it's all about what WE THE INDIVIDUAL must do.
Trouble is, can they attain sinless perfection where the flesh/lust is concerned?
And would that on its own be enough for God, even if they could, which I don't believe incidentally.
Would striving to be pure in the flesh, mean that God woulds turn a blind eye to crushing people with demands they themselves do not try to keep? I do not believe it would.
They don't have to do any works as such as a Christian, in helping others, just crucify their own flesh, that's it.
The problem is, as Spurgeon said. If you struggle and defeat the flesh for a while, pride takes over and you're hit with that instead. No human perfection. Hence why we get demands made these people do not adhere to themselves. And it's all about what WE THE INDIVIDUAL must do.
Trouble is, can they attain sinless perfection where the flesh/lust is concerned?
And would that on its own be enough for God, even if they could, which I don't believe incidentally.
Would striving to be pure in the flesh, mean that God woulds turn a blind eye to crushing people with demands they themselves do not try to keep? I do not believe it would.
the obvious way to teach conformity to the Son of God is to read and be taught through the Bible.
turning the pages from Romans 6 and 7 to 8, 9 and onward. for life.
daily.
yet, according to some, there comes a time when turning the pages is no longer necessary, because they have already stopped all sin, and are now righteous.
they are merely reading the Law and Word of God for pleasure, no more need of being conformed, since they conformed themselves before they were saved.
i'm still waiting for simple personalized instructions on how they used the filthy rag of their own sinful heart to purify themselves before coming to Christ. this must have been done according to LAW because sin is transgression of the Law.
the LAW stands, so these people learned the ALL THE REQUIREMENTS of the LAW first, conformed to it, then were granted mercy and salvation.
they are now righteous under the Law, and presumably will manage to stay that way.
do they claim this outright? no equivocations?
do they explain what Christ died for?
still looking.
turning the pages from Romans 6 and 7 to 8, 9 and onward. for life.
daily.
yet, according to some, there comes a time when turning the pages is no longer necessary, because they have already stopped all sin, and are now righteous.
they are merely reading the Law and Word of God for pleasure, no more need of being conformed, since they conformed themselves before they were saved.
i'm still waiting for simple personalized instructions on how they used the filthy rag of their own sinful heart to purify themselves before coming to Christ. this must have been done according to LAW because sin is transgression of the Law.
the LAW stands, so these people learned the ALL THE REQUIREMENTS of the LAW first, conformed to it, then were granted mercy and salvation.
they are now righteous under the Law, and presumably will manage to stay that way.
do they claim this outright? no equivocations?
do they explain what Christ died for?
still looking.
Last edited:
And explaining away what law really means. We must keep it ALL. No stuffing about different laws or parts of the law or "that was OT law". ALL. Every jot and tittle. Fail in one point - guilty of all! Ole' Maimonides got his count to 613. But that's a low count, its more. ALL!
Good news is there is a man who actually did this once...
Good news is there is a man who actually did this once...
Last edited:
A
I too am appalled at the fallacies in that video.
If future sins are forgiven in advance why does God chastise people when they eventually commit them?
It's either He brings those sins back to remembrance or He didn't forgive them to begin with. I hold to the latter.
If future sins are forgiven in advance why does God chastise people when they eventually commit them?
It's either He brings those sins back to remembrance or He didn't forgive them to begin with. I hold to the latter.Did you even listen to the video or take Skinski's word on what it says?
he is talking to the people who think "yes CHrist forgave my sins yesterday but tommorrow when I mess up and sin, God is done with me. I am no longer forgiven. God doesn't want anything to do with me"
that is the lie he is speaking against. instead people twist what he is saying into saying its ok to murder. which is a lie. don't know why people like to lie instead of listen and pray and ask God what is meant by the person's speech.
They will know you are MY DISCIPLES by the love you have one for another
does love for one another include:
1) convincing oneself they are without sin
2) then conspiring from outside the church to agitate and frame-up pastors/under-shepherds and the flock based on that delusion?
Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
John 21:15
When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
John 21:16
Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
are these people aware of what this means?
do they understand they are not pastors?
if these people think 1 Peter 5 applies to them, i ask again - may we please see the evidence - their example - in real life?
let's see their real life fruit.
1 Peter 5
Shepherd the Flock of God
1So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: 2shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,a not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you;b not for shameful gain, but eagerly; 3not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. 4And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
does love for one another include:
1) convincing oneself they are without sin
2) then conspiring from outside the church to agitate and frame-up pastors/under-shepherds and the flock based on that delusion?
Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
John 21:15
When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
John 21:16
Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
are these people aware of what this means?
do they understand they are not pastors?
if these people think 1 Peter 5 applies to them, i ask again - may we please see the evidence - their example - in real life?
let's see their real life fruit.
1 Peter 5
Shepherd the Flock of God
1So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: 2shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,a not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you;b not for shameful gain, but eagerly; 3not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. 4And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
Good observations from a man who sees the great hyprocracy throughout the church system today:
The old adage that there is strength in numbers applies here. If the Vast Majority of people all tends to agree together that something is true the likelihood of acceptance is assured. So if God is perceived as this Benevolent being of absolute perfection smiling down on those who ‘acknowledge’ His existence, that will be the mutual understanding of the people who believe in Him. Defining the deeper things of religion and theology can be sorted out by the scholars who dedicate their lives to the study of Divine matters. Everyone else can ‘let go and let God’.
It appears to be universally accepted among people who claim belief in God that He excuses their short comings and wrong doings as ‘being’ human. In other words; since no one is perfect nor can anyone achieve God-like perfection, man is absolved of his sinful condition IF he ‘trusts’ in Christ as his Savior. God forgives and forgets and that’s the end of it. Therefore when a person who has ‘trusted’ (or believes) slips up (as anyone who is human will do) they are ALREADY exonerated of blame. Thus fornicators, adulterers, drunkards, covetous, sodomites, homosexuals, thieves, filthy talkers, the selfish and double-minded are automatically released from their responsibility to STOP doing these things or suffer the consequences.
Otherwise stated: ‘To the believers there are NO consequences!’
YET in life there are HUGE penalties for these things. Whether it is of criminal offense or plain immorality, there’s a price to pay for hurting yourself or others through irresponsible acts of selfish behavior. WHY else would people strive to keep these things hidden and do them in secret? It’s absurd to assume that God will not punish wrong doers just because they ‘believe’ in Him. That would be like granting someone carte blanche (full permission) to violate every law of human decency known to man!
People who profess belief in God are quick to condemn murder, child abuse, acts of violence and various other crimes, but they think God is going to give them a pass on adultery, fornication, lewdness, pornography viewing and other vulgarities. Wouldn’t your own human sense of reason illustrate the foolishness of this? You come to church in all sincerity, sing, pray, cry and believe deep down in your heart that you’re trying so hard to serve God although you constantly fail time after time. But you have a warped sense of Judgment! While your sins are viewed as ‘mistakes’ excused by God, you think of the ‘Wicked’ spoken of constantly in Scripture as people FAR worse than yourself but NEVER as sinners just like you in need of bitter and broken repentance.
The old adage that there is strength in numbers applies here. If the Vast Majority of people all tends to agree together that something is true the likelihood of acceptance is assured. So if God is perceived as this Benevolent being of absolute perfection smiling down on those who ‘acknowledge’ His existence, that will be the mutual understanding of the people who believe in Him. Defining the deeper things of religion and theology can be sorted out by the scholars who dedicate their lives to the study of Divine matters. Everyone else can ‘let go and let God’.
It appears to be universally accepted among people who claim belief in God that He excuses their short comings and wrong doings as ‘being’ human. In other words; since no one is perfect nor can anyone achieve God-like perfection, man is absolved of his sinful condition IF he ‘trusts’ in Christ as his Savior. God forgives and forgets and that’s the end of it. Therefore when a person who has ‘trusted’ (or believes) slips up (as anyone who is human will do) they are ALREADY exonerated of blame. Thus fornicators, adulterers, drunkards, covetous, sodomites, homosexuals, thieves, filthy talkers, the selfish and double-minded are automatically released from their responsibility to STOP doing these things or suffer the consequences.
Otherwise stated: ‘To the believers there are NO consequences!’
YET in life there are HUGE penalties for these things. Whether it is of criminal offense or plain immorality, there’s a price to pay for hurting yourself or others through irresponsible acts of selfish behavior. WHY else would people strive to keep these things hidden and do them in secret? It’s absurd to assume that God will not punish wrong doers just because they ‘believe’ in Him. That would be like granting someone carte blanche (full permission) to violate every law of human decency known to man!
People who profess belief in God are quick to condemn murder, child abuse, acts of violence and various other crimes, but they think God is going to give them a pass on adultery, fornication, lewdness, pornography viewing and other vulgarities. Wouldn’t your own human sense of reason illustrate the foolishness of this? You come to church in all sincerity, sing, pray, cry and believe deep down in your heart that you’re trying so hard to serve God although you constantly fail time after time. But you have a warped sense of Judgment! While your sins are viewed as ‘mistakes’ excused by God, you think of the ‘Wicked’ spoken of constantly in Scripture as people FAR worse than yourself but NEVER as sinners just like you in need of bitter and broken repentance.
A
no it doesn't. it means you don't have to worry about trying to pay back God for breaking His laws and trusting that God truly forgave you and you know WHY: because Jesus died for the atonement of our sins. we don't do the works of God to atone for our sins but out of love and thanksgiving that GOD already atoned for us. we do not do it to pay back God but in order to show our love for HIM and the rest of humanity.
you just don't understand how penal subsitution works and what they are truly teaching because you and others just hear half the message and then add other things to what anyone teaches, such as lying and saying they teach it is ok to kill in the future.
you are either ignorant or willfully blind to the fact that they speak to GOD"S children who have HIS HOLY SPIRIT to guide them and keep them from such transgressions. the sermon is about forgiveness and taking away fear of people who think God would abandon them if they make mistakes.
you and your friends rant and rave and do not see that you beat God's children up with your condemning words. calling them wolves, making them doubt that they are ever saved because as you call it they do NOT always "meet the mark"
now how can you tell if their not "meeting the mark" is due to being rooted in iniquity or not?
the guy preaches that if they are in CHrist then their hearts are new and they can always go before God and ask for forgiveness. they never have to worry that GOD will give up on them.
why do YOU preach against such a message?
you just don't understand how penal subsitution works and what they are truly teaching because you and others just hear half the message and then add other things to what anyone teaches, such as lying and saying they teach it is ok to kill in the future.
you are either ignorant or willfully blind to the fact that they speak to GOD"S children who have HIS HOLY SPIRIT to guide them and keep them from such transgressions. the sermon is about forgiveness and taking away fear of people who think God would abandon them if they make mistakes.
you and your friends rant and rave and do not see that you beat God's children up with your condemning words. calling them wolves, making them doubt that they are ever saved because as you call it they do NOT always "meet the mark"
now how can you tell if their not "meeting the mark" is due to being rooted in iniquity or not?
the guy preaches that if they are in CHrist then their hearts are new and they can always go before God and ask for forgiveness. they never have to worry that GOD will give up on them.
why do YOU preach against such a message?
does this poster answer the question?
or is he expecting me to believe he is without sin; righteous and pure?
the biggest red flag is a spammer who continues to claim they are without sin/pure/righteous < these particular posters deny any imputed righteousness, any legal declaration of aquittal by The Judge, no righteousness of Christ imputed to their account.
no exchange at all.
that leaves them WITH THE LAW. LAW.
let's see if Mark's simple questions are answered:
no actual: YES, MARK, I DO THIS AND THAT AND HAVE THIS AND THAT.
why not? it should be an easy answer.
............................
"Yes, faith is a work, a working faith through love, where you love God supremely as commanded, and obey His commands from a heart made pure through repentance, and obedience to the truth."
does this poster go on to actually say HE does this?
does this poster actually say with equivocaction that he:
loves God supremely as commanded
obeys His commands from a heart made pure
i'm still looking.
honesty is the FIRST test of any claim to purity.
or is he expecting me to believe he is without sin; righteous and pure?
the biggest red flag is a spammer who continues to claim they are without sin/pure/righteous < these particular posters deny any imputed righteousness, any legal declaration of aquittal by The Judge, no righteousness of Christ imputed to their account.
no exchange at all.
that leaves them WITH THE LAW. LAW.
let's see if Mark's simple questions are answered:
no actual: YES, MARK, I DO THIS AND THAT AND HAVE THIS AND THAT.
why not? it should be an easy answer.
............................
"Yes, faith is a work, a working faith through love, where you love God supremely as commanded, and obey His commands from a heart made pure through repentance, and obedience to the truth."
does this poster go on to actually say HE does this?
does this poster actually say with equivocaction that he:
loves God supremely as commanded
obeys His commands from a heart made pure
i'm still looking.
honesty is the FIRST test of any claim to purity.
A
here from the same preacher you call a "wolf" learn the difference between conviction and condemnation
then repent of your libel and condemnation of this man.
The difference between conviction and condemnation - YouTube
then repent of your libel and condemnation of this man.
The difference between conviction and condemnation - YouTube
A
Here is the summary for those who can't view the video:
conviction:
is from God, leads to life, ends in joy, makes us want to change,
leads to a new identity in Christ, brings specific awareness of sin,
looks to Jesus, is a blessing
condemnation:
is from Satan, leads to despair, ends in sorrow, makes us believe we can't change,
leads to old identity in sin, brings vague identity about sin,
looks to self, is a burden
conviction:
is from God, leads to life, ends in joy, makes us want to change,
leads to a new identity in Christ, brings specific awareness of sin,
looks to Jesus, is a blessing
condemnation:
is from Satan, leads to despair, ends in sorrow, makes us believe we can't change,
leads to old identity in sin, brings vague identity about sin,
looks to self, is a burden