John 14:17 yes im sure there is a wide application. But not in your case. Who is talking about whether unregenerate people have the Holyspirit? I sure wasnt..
My point was that Jesus' statement is categorical. The world
can not receive the Holy Spirit. This same
can not this same Jesus also used in referring to in receiving Him and ultimately salvation, which he said is "impossible" for men. You don't think these includes the will of the unregenerate?
Maybe you don't say that the unregenerate
has the Spirit - but, is it not so that you think that the Spirit assists basically "all men" in "prevenient grace" and therein gives them free volition to "receive" from God? None of which is scriptural.
And 1 cor 2:14 yes are you still not natural?.
???
tribesman im trying to understand how people differ with me from scripture. thats
where im a little lost. I dont want to battle anyones systematic theology, if that
thrilled me id just google and learn the tricks of a 500 years old debate.
You're battling the concept of free will in salvation and the nature/role of faith in justification. Whether your take on it comes from literal "interpretation", the tradition you are/were part of or some mindset that "it has to be" a certain way, there is no scriptural support for such. It assumes many things which are either very weak in scripture (all too weak to build such a crucial key doctrine on) or are not found in scripture at all. Free will in spiritual matters are usually but a mere
philosophical solution to a theological problem. It always assume a lot of things which are not scriptural or it fills in the "blanks" it see in scripture instead of letting those be.
Let's look at a key scripture here:
Eph.2
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved; )
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
See this? No space to boast. Not even about one's "decision to receive" anything. Why? Because it is
not your own doing.
What saves? Grace! A work wholly outside of us. Just as the work of quickening us from the dead. Faith works than as an instrument where this is taken up in us. But it is not conditioned on us nor our doing. It is all a GIFT.
There is nothing about any "free will" here. There is nothing about any condition being fulfilled in us before God can bestow this upon us, not even the condition to use any would be ability to receive something.
And that not of yourselves, in any way, shape or form. We are but passive recipients of an undeserved grace. It is all the work of God and to Him alone goes all the glory for it.
