DeMystifying the Trinity

[JLHillsSr]

Psalm 17:8 - refers to WINGS - does that mean God has WINGS? ...HE IS A SPIRIT.....NO HANDS OR ARMS ....the right hand of God means ...THE POWER OF GOD........throughout the Bible...and if you read REVELATIONS 4:2 ..what does John see? ONE on the throne...not THREE.....if they are equal...why didn't he see THREE?.........the two manifestations....the man Christ and Holy Spirit has served their purpose according to prophecy......and reconciliation of man back to a Holy God.

Gen 1:26 KJV - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 KJV - So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

because the body (Christ) had served it's purpose as the temple or the tabernacle that housed the Spirit and now fused (for lack of a better word) into the Spirit that IS God

This is after the end of days, i.e. New Jerusalem.

Psalm 17:8 - refers to WINGS - does that mean God has WINGS?

The "wings" are the glow or glory of the Father. It appears as wings in motion.

 

[Elin]

Hey Elin - I love that you're inquiring and not challenging.....or are you?...lol

Hi, Paul,

Let's say it's both, inquiry and challenge.

.....the term US can easily and I say easily mean.....that God was talking to, making reference to.......His entourage...He's not up there ALONE...He has the HOST OF ANGELS in His court....

Well, the problem with that is that God's "entourage" did not create.
Only the "us" created.

So "us" doesn't refer to his entourage.

we also know that KINGS and QUEENS always refer to themselves in the PLURAL OF MAJESTY ...You'll hear them make reference to themselves as "Let US consider the matter"...referring to the ROYALTY as a total entity

Do you have the cart before the horse here?

Whom do you think first referred to the sovereign ruler as "us," a human sovereign or the divine sovereign?
Who do you think copied whom?

That human sovereigns use "us" shows only that human sovereigns followed divine usage.
It does not show that divine usage refers to royalty, instead of referring to plural persons.

Jesus is stating that....He was both God and Man....

Agreed.

He was fully God and fully man, he was not half God and half man.

And he also stated that he was the Son, not the Father.

So Father and Son were two separate agents.

there was not talk or thinking about the Trinity at the time of Christ - that's why you never hear the disciple arguing about it

Granted, the word "Trinity" is not in Scripture.

But that is not why "you never hear the disciple arguing about it."
There was nothing for them to argue about, they all knew from Jesus about the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The argument began only when some began to deny the three separate divine agents presented by Jesus, to whom Jesus referred with the pronooun (him, he) of personhood (Jn 14:17, 16:7, 8, 12, 13, 14), not the pronoun of the neuter (it).

Jesus looked into Peter's heart and knew that when he called Him THE SON OF GOD he really meant THAT ONE THAT WAS BEGOTTEN 30 YEARS AGO from a virgin, as prophesied

Well, what was prophesied was Ps 2:7:
"You are my Son; today I have become your Father." (Ac 2:33; Heb 1:5, 5:5)

Paul, you've presented some serious Biblical problems with your statement above:

1) On what authority do you change the Scriptural text of Mt 16:16 to mean other than what it clearly states: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

If we are at liberty to change what the text clearly states, then we have no truth from God, we have only our own truth from our own mind.

2) Women do not beget.
Beget is "to father, to sire."
Jesus was sired by God, the Father.
That is why God is "Father," Jesus is "Son" and Mary is "mother."

"God has brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves. . .by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,. . .all things were created by him and for him. . .he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Col 1:13-17)

God's Son didn't come into existence 30 years before Peter stated: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
God's Son existed before all things, and created all things.

That is the revelation of Jesus (Heb 1:1-2), given through his apostles in the NT.

love sharing my REVELATIONS with hungry hearts - Paul

Well, Paul, your revelations likewise present Biblical problems in themselves.

1) The Holy Spirit does not illumine contrary to Scripture.
He is the author of Scripture (2Tim 3:16; 2Pe 1:21), and he does not contradict himself.

However, as shown above, your revelation contradicts Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2) given through his apostles in the NT, that he is the Son of the living God (Mt 16:16).

2) And then you completely alter the text of Jesus' revelation (Mt 16:16) so that it does not mean what it plainly states.

Paul, you really need to evaluate where your understanding comes from.
Because it is not coming from the clear text authored by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Elin]

Anyone know where I can find the scripture of where Moses mentions Christ, how God would send Him and how all the people should obey Him. I read it before, but I can not remember the wording. so I cant find it.

That would be Dt 19:15-19.

 

[Bowman]

I HAVE DEFENDED EVERY ...EVERY STATEMENT I HAVE MADE...SOMEWHERE ALONG THIS THREAD...CHECK 'EM ALL OUT...BUT LIKE I SAID...YOU'RE SO DETERMINED THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THAT - SO BE IT - HAVE IT YOUR WAY - LET YOUR HEART BE HARDENED SIR - GOD BLESS

Asserting is not defending, brother...

 

[nathan3]

That would be Dt 19:15-19.

that's not the one. thanks for trying, if u find it let me know again .

Anyone know where I can find the scripture of where Moses mentions Christ, how God would send Him and how all the people should obey Him. I read it before, but I can not remember the wording. so I cant find it.

I have an idea of how it went, so, I would know it when i see it.

 

[Blain]

Balin - I'm with you son - but let me shed some light on my mission here - not to argue...you're right....but to share my convictions with people who may be searching for deeper meaning - explain the best way I know how and pray that someone is looking to EXPAND THE BORDERS of their faith.......OUTSIDE of the traditions of MAN'S DOCTRINE AND INTERPRETATIONS...we have to go back to our roots.....the APOSTLES' DOCTRINE they received from Christ..Jesus said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN (John 3:7)....MUST BE......"WATER AND SPIRIT" (John 3:5) ...means what?.....BAPTIZED AND...RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT....not an option.....Peter re-interrates in ACTS 2:38....'Repent and...BE BAPTIZED and...RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST"......Paul tells us in (Romans 8:9) ..."Without it...we are none of His"...why?...because you need the Holy Ghost to lead you into the FULLNESS of God's TRUTH...and that's more than JUST loving your neighbour......if it was JUST about that, we wouldn't need the Epistles to help us live an overcoming life now would we ....if we could take care of the sin issue by just loving each other, there would have been no need for the Lord to come and die on a cross....Lord bless - Paul[/QUOTE it's fantasic your cause is so good. It seems you are trying to teach the deeper meanings of things which is good because not enough ppl are willing to look for the deeper things of god. God is like an endless cake, layers and layers of of cake. I too am searching for the deeper things of god, i believe he his looking for ppl who are willing to search his heart in a greedy fasion, now the things you are teaching may or may not be right idk but i always try to keep an open mind because if i can learn anything that will deepen the relationship between the father and i- i'm going to go for it. But the thing is many ppl are not willing to listen to the teachings of an experienced christian or even teachings that contridict what they believe, but i can see you expected that and i appluad you for not arguing back. Now honestly i neither agree or disagree with you because i do not have the knowledge to know for sure, but like i said i am wanting to know the deeper things of god and i want to search his heart at the deepest level so having an open mind is very important for that.

 

[Eagleridge]

I was with you until you made a crucial mistake:


God did not die. He is everlasting. It was the humanity and the Body that died.

Rom 8:11 KJV - But if the Spirit (Jehovah) of him that raised up Jesus (Humanity) from the dead dwell in you, he (the Father) that raised up Christ (the Body) from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his (the Father) (Holy) Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 6:4 KJV - Therefore we are buried with him (Humanity) by baptism into death: that like as Christ (the Body) was raised up from the dead by the glory (Holy Spirit) of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

WHOA JL- IF YOU'VE READ EVERYTHING I WROTE IN THIS THREAD, YOU'LL KNOW WHAT I MEANT BY THAT STATEMENT - THE MAN CHRIST DIED (THAT'S WHY THEY BURIED THE BODY FOR 3 DAYS) - HE DIED - AND YES - THANK YOU - YOU'VE HELPED ME PROVE MY POINT - GOD ROBED HIMSELF IN FLESH AND LIVED AMONG US FOR 33 YEARS SO THAT HE COULD BECOME THE PERFECT SACRIFICE THROUGH DEATH..HE WAS THE MANIFESTATION OF GOD IN THE FLESH ...TO ATONE FOR OUR SINS ..AS THE SPIRIT, HE COULDN'T ATONE WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD - HE BECAME THE HOUSE, THE TEMPLE, THE TABERNACLE IN WHICH THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD DWELT - THE BODY (THE MAN) WAS RAISED (QUOTE) "FROM THE DEAD"...LOTS OF SCRIPTURE FOR THAT....HOPE THIS HELPS - LORD BLESS - PAUL

 

[Crossfire]

WHOA JL- IF YOU'VE READ EVERYTHING I WROTE IN THIS THREAD, YOU'LL KNOW WHAT I MEANT BY THAT STATEMENT - THE MAN CHRIST DIED (THAT'S WHY THEY BURIED THE BODY FOR 3 DAYS) - HE DIED - AND YES - THANK YOU - YOU'VE HELPED ME PROVE MY POINT - GOD ROBED HIMSELF IN FLESH AND LIVED AMONG US FOR 33 YEARS SO THAT HE COULD BECOME THE PERFECT SACRIFICE THROUGH DEATH..HE WAS THE MANIFESTATION OF GOD IN THE FLESH ...TO ATONE FOR OUR SINS ..AS THE SPIRIT, HE COULDN'T ATONE WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD - HE BECAME THE HOUSE, THE TEMPLE, THE TABERNACLE IN WHICH THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD DWELT - THE BODY (THE MAN) WAS RAISED (QUOTE) "FROM THE DEAD"...LOTS OF SCRIPTURE FOR THAT....HOPE THIS HELPS - LORD BLESS - PAUL

I will agree that Jesus was indeed God wrapped in human flesh however, if a person does not believe that Christ had a human will apart from God's will, then that person is not very familiar with scripture.

Also, many fail to realize that once saved that same divine Spirit which resided in Christ now lives within you and I and the reason why Jesus is called "the first born of many brethren".

 

[Eagleridge]

Hi, Paul,

Let's say it's both, inquiry and challenge.

Well, the problem with that is that God's "entourage" did not create.
Only the "us" created.

So "us" doesn't refer to his entourage.



Do you have the cart before the horse here?

Whom do you think first referred to the sovereign ruler as "us," a human sovereign or the divine sovereign?
Who do you think copied whom?

That human sovereigns use "us" shows only that human sovereigns followed divine usage.
It does not show that divine usage refers to royalty, instead of referring to plural persons.



Agreed.

He was fully God and fully man, he was not half God and half man.

And he also stated that he was the Son, not the Father.

So Father and Son were two separate agents.

Granted, the word "Trinity" is not in Scripture.

But that is not why "you never hear the disciple arguing about it."
There was nothing for them to argue about, they all knew from Jesus about the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The argument began only when some began to deny the three separate divine agents presented by Jesus, to whom Jesus referred with the pronooun (him, he) of personhood (Jn 14:17, 16:7, 8, 12, 13, 14), not the pronoun of the neuter (it).

Well, what was prophesied was Ps 2:7:
"You are my Son; today I have become your Father." (Ac 2:33; Heb 1:5, 5:5)

Paul, you've presented some serious Biblical problems with your statement above:

1) On what authority do you change the Scriptural text of Mt 16:16 to mean other than what it clearly states: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

If we are at liberty to change what the text clearly states, then we have no truth from God, we have only our own truth from our own mind.

2) Women do not beget.
Beget is "to father, to sire."
Jesus was sired by God, the Father.
That is why God is "Father," Jesus is "Son" and Mary is "mother."

"God has brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves. . .by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,. . .all things were created by him and for him. . .he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Col 1:13-17)

God's Son didn't come into existence 30 years before Peter stated: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
God's Son existed before all things, and created all things.

That is the revelation of Jesus (Heb 1:1-2), given through his apostles in the NT.


Well, Paul, your revelations likewise present Biblical problems in themselves.

1) The Holy Spirit does not illumine contrary to Scripture.
He is the author of Scripture (2Tim 3:16; 2Pe 1:21), and he does not contradict himself.

However, as shown above, your revelation contradicts Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2) given through his apostles in the NT, that he is the Son of the living God (Mt 16:16).

2) And then you completely alter the text of Jesus' revelation (Mt 16:16) so that it does not mean what it plainly states.

Paul, you really need to evaluate where your understanding comes from.
Because it is not coming from the clear text authored by the Holy Spirit.

LIKE I'VE SAID ERIN - YOU SEE IT OR YOU DON'T - AS LONG AS YOU ARE GOING TO ARGUE FROM THE NATURAL MIND (I COR 2:14)... WE CAN NEVER AGREE - I'VE EXPLAINED THE MANIFESTATIONS OF GOD - THE TITLES OF GOD - THE NAME (SINGULAR) OF GOD - JESUS CHRIST - THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD - IF YOU DON'T SEE IT - YOU SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO SEE IT - WITHOUT THE REVELATION YOU CAN'T....BUT..(THOSE WHO HUNGER AND THIRST AFTER RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL BE FILLED) ..SIMPLY PUT...THOSE THAT DON'T....WON'T - APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT - LORD BLESS

 

[Elin]

that's not the one. thanks for trying, if u find it let me know again .

Oops! I gave you the wrong one, it's Dt 18:15-19.

See Ac 3:22-23, 7:37.

I have an idea of how it went, so, I would know it when i see it.

 

[Eagleridge]

I will agree that Jesus was indeed God wrapped in human flesh however, if a person does not believe that Christ had a human will apart from God's will, then that person is not very familiar with scripture.

Also, many fail to realize that once saved that same divine Spirit which resided in Christ now lives within you and I and the reason why Jesus is called "the first born of many brethren".

DON'T THINK YOU MEANT TO AGREE, BUT WE DO - HE TOTALLY HAD A SEPARATE WILL...THAT'S WHY HE SAID IN GETHSAMANE .. "THY WILL BE DONE" - THE MAN CHRIST WAS WRESTLING WITH HIS FLESH (CLEARLY SEE THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE MAN AND THE SPIRIT HERE) ...EXERCISING HIS WILL AS A MAN TO BE OVERRIDDEN BY THE SPIRIT (THE FATHER) - THANK YOU CROSSFIRE - FOR SHEDDING LIGHT ON THIS - NOT SURE YOU WANTED TO STAND IN MY CORNER.....KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN THOUGH - A MAJORITY COMING AGAINST MY CONVICTIONS FROM THE WORD OF GOD - ANTICIPATED THAT - AND TO THEM I SAY, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT....."LET THOSE WHO HAVE EYES SEE, AND THOSE THAT HAVE EARS HEAR" WHAT THUS SAYETH THE WORD OF GOD ....THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS SO DEEPLY ENTRENCHED INTO OUR RELIGIOUS CULTURE BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE TRUTH - SINCERELY - PAUL

 

[Eagleridge]

Balin - I'm with you son - but let me shed some light on my mission here - not to argue...you're right....but to share my convictions with people who may be searching for deeper meaning - explain the best way I know how and pray that someone is looking to EXPAND THE BORDERS of their faith.......OUTSIDE of the traditions of MAN'S DOCTRINE AND INTERPRETATIONS...we have to go back to our roots.....the APOSTLES' DOCTRINE they received from Christ..Jesus said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN (John 3:7)....MUST BE......"WATER AND SPIRIT" (John 3:5) ...means what?.....BAPTIZED AND...RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT....not an option.....Peter re-interrates in ACTS 2:38....'Repent and...BE BAPTIZED and...RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST"......Paul tells us in (Romans 8:9) ..."Without it...we are none of His"...why?...because you need the Holy Ghost to lead you into the FULLNESS of God's TRUTH...and that's more than JUST loving your neighbour......if it was JUST about that, we wouldn't need the Epistles to help us live an overcoming life now would we ....if we could take care of the sin issue by just loving each other, there would have been no need for the Lord to come and die on a cross....Lord bless - Paul[/QUOTE it's fantasic your cause is so good. It seems you are trying to teach the deeper meanings of things which is good because not enough ppl are willing to look for the deeper things of god. God is like an endless cake, layers and layers of of cake. I too am searching for the deeper things of god, i believe he his looking for ppl who are willing to search his heart in a greedy fasion, now the things you are teaching may or may not be right idk but i always try to keep an open mind because if i can learn anything that will deepen the relationship between the father and i- i'm going to go for it. But the thing is many ppl are not willing to listen to the teachings of an experienced christian or even teachings that contridict what they believe, but i can see you expected that and i appluad you for not arguing back. Now honestly i neither agree or disagree with you because i do not have the knowledge to know for sure, but like i said i am wanting to know the deeper things of god and i want to search his heart at the deepest level so having an open mind is very important for that.

THANK YOU FOR STEPPING UP BLAIN AND PUTTING YOURSELF OUR HERE WITH ME - APPRECIATE YOUR CANDOR - SO TRUE - ALWAYS WILLING TO LEARN - I WAS VERY MUCH LIKE EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD UNTIL........I HAD THE BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE AND MY EYES WERE OPENED TO DEPTHS OF THE WORD I COULD HARDLY BELIEVE WERE THERE - LIKE SO MANY, I LIVED ON TOP OF THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE (AND PEOPLE WILL DIE THERE...FIGHTING AND ARGUING ETC) BUT THERE'S MORE TO THE WORD THAN JUST WHAT WE READ ON TOP OF THE PAGES....IT'S THE MIND OF GOD....WHY DO YOU THINK JESUS WOULD GO OFF WITH JOHN AND JAMES......THEY WANTED TO KNOW MORE...THE TRANSFIGURATION IS THE BEST EXAMPLE...HE REVEALED THINGS TO THEM THAT THE OTHERS DIDN'T WANT TO SEE, OR COULDN'T SEE YET...THEY WEREN'T READY.....I REMEMBER ASKING THE LORD...TAKE ME INTO YOUR CIRCLE AND TELL ME EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW...TO BE SAVED....AND HELP OTHERS GET SAVED...HE DID...THAT'S WHEN THE REVELATIONS CAME......SO MANY......TRYING TO SHARE THEM IN THIS FORUM.....SOME DON'T WANT THEM...SOME AREN'T READY YET......OF FOR JUST ONE DEAR LORD...JUST ONE....AND IT'LL ALL BE WORTH IT - IF YOU EVER NEED MORE, LET ME KNOW, I'LL TALK TO YOU IN E-MAIL - LORD BLESS - PAUL

 

[Bowman]

THANK YOU FOR STEPPING UP BLAIN AND PUTTING YOURSELF OUR HERE WITH ME - APPRECIATE YOUR CANDOR - SO TRUE - ALWAYS WILLING TO LEARN - I WAS VERY MUCH LIKE EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD UNTIL........I HAD THE BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE AND MY EYES WERE OPENED TO DEPTHS OF THE WORD I COULD HARDLY BELIEVE WERE THERE - LIKE SO MANY, I LIVED ON TOP OF THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE (AND PEOPLE WILL DIE THERE...FIGHTING AND ARGUING ETC) BUT THERE'S MORE TO THE WORD THAN JUST WHAT WE READ ON TOP OF THE PAGES....IT'S THE MIND OF GOD....WHY DO YOU THINK JESUS WOULD GO OFF WITH JOHN AND JAMES......THEY WANTED TO KNOW MORE...THE TRANSFIGURATION IS THE BEST EXAMPLE...HE REVEALED THINGS TO THEM THAT THE OTHERS DIDN'T WANT TO SEE, OR COULDN'T SEE YET...THEY WEREN'T READY.....I REMEMBER ASKING THE LORD...TAKE ME INTO YOUR CIRCLE AND TELL ME EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW...TO BE SAVED....AND HELP OTHERS GET SAVED...HE DID...THAT'S WHEN THE REVELATIONS CAME......SO MANY......TRYING TO SHARE THEM IN THIS FORUM.....SOME DON'T WANT THEM...SOME AREN'T READY YET......OF FOR JUST ONE DEAR LORD...JUST ONE....AND IT'LL ALL BE WORTH IT - IF YOU EVER NEED MORE, LET ME KNOW, I'LL TALK TO YOU IN E-MAIL - LORD BLESS - PAUL

Why do you think that the Trinity is Three Gods?

Btw....you don't have to post in all caps all the time....it gives the impression that you are shouting and mad...

 

[Eagleridge]

Why do you think that the Trinity is Three Gods?

Btw....you don't have to post in all caps all the time....it gives the impression that you are shouting and mad...

LOL - caps are easier to read and draw attention - and never said TRINITY is 3 Gods - another misquote - that's EXACTLY what I'm refuting - TRINITY implies THREE in essence - no wonder God, in His infinite wisdom wrote in down in simple form - HEAR O ISRAEL - THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE - TRINITY is a man made word that was instituted at the Nicean Council 300 yrs after Christ - by Tertillian - BY DEFINITON...look it up "A GROUP OF THREE"....I should ask you...why use it at all?....USAGE DEFEATS YOUR ARGUMENTS...by that definition?......OXY-MORON ? ONE GOD MANIFESTED in two separate entities that would serve a purpose ---THE MAN AND THE HOLY GHOST - THE SPIRIT OF GOD IMPREGNATED MARY WITH A BODY THAT HE HIMSELF COULD COME INTO...THE FIRST MANIFESTATION......LIVE IN FOR 33 YEARS...AND SUBJECT TO THE DEATH OF THE CROSS...BACK UP TO HEAVEN AND POUR HIMSELF OUT INTO A SECOND MANIFESTATION...THE HOLY GHOST.....PURE AND REALLY SIMPLE.......BUT THE NATURAL MIND SEES THREE...OF COURSE ....AND THE REASON WE CANNOT EVER AGREE....WITHOUT A REVELATION

 

[zone]

i haven't read any of this...

have we demystified the Trinity yet?

can i get a summary?

Beuller Beuller
Beuller Beuller

 

[Elin]

LIKE I'VE SAID ERIN - YOU SEE IT OR YOU DON'T

Well, Paul, to quote someone we both know:

With all due respect - please don't make these statements without backing them up

Don't you think that "YOU SEE IT OR YOU DON'T" falls somewhat short of "backing them up."

So I'm "backing up" what I see with the word of God written.
It's gonna' be long because it's gonna' be thorough:

"Out of Eqypt I have called my son." (Mt 2:15, fulfillment of Hos 11:1)

"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Mt 3:17, 17:5, voice from heaven at Jesus' baptism, and at the transfiguration)

"If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread. . .If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down" (Mt 4:3, 6, where did Satan get the idea Jesus was the Son of God?)

Jesus calls himself "the Son" and "the Son of God" ( Mt 11:27, 16:16, 26:63-64, 27:43, 28:19; Jn 3:16, 17, 18, 5:19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 6:40, 8:36, 10:36, 11:4, 14:13, 17;1)

"they worshiped him saying, 'Truly you are the Son of God.' " (Mt 14:33, which worship Jesus received and did not refuse)

"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. . .this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven." (Mt 16:16-17, Peter's confession and Jesus' reply)

"that born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (Lk 1:35, the angel Gabriel to Mary)

"demons came out of many people shouting, 'You are the Son of God!' (Lk 4:41, 8:27-28)

"I testify that this is the Son of God." (John the Baptist in Jn 1:34)

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son" (Jn 3:16, 17, 18)

The apostle John himself calls Jesus the "Son of God" (Jn 3:35, 36, 20:31)

Paul preached that Jesus was the Son of God (Ac 9:20, 13:33; Ro 1:3, 4, 9, 5:10, 8:3, 29, 32; 1Co 1:9, 15:28, 2Co 1:19, Gal 1:16, 2:20, 4:4, 6; Eph 4:13; Col 1:13; 1Th 1:10)

We find Jesus called the the Son of God in 1Pe; 2Pe; 22 times in 1 & 2Jn; 11 times in Hebrews.

The Biblcal testimony witnesses that from the Father and the angels in heaven,
to Jesus, John the Baptist and the apostles on earth,
and even to the demons in hell,
Jesus was the Son of God.

So I leave you with the following reminders:

"This is Gods command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ." (1Jn 3:23)

"If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God." (1Jn 4:15)

"Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God." (1Jn 5:5)

"Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." (1Jn 5:10-11)

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1Jn 5:13)

"We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true, that is, in his Son Jesus Christ." (1Jn 5:20).

AS LONG AS YOU ARE GOING TO ARGUE FROM THE NATURAL MIND (I COR 2:14)... WE CAN NEVER AGREE - I'VE EXPLAINED - IF YOU DON'T SEE IT - YOU SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO SEE IT - WITHOUT THE REVELATION YOU CAN'T

I have presented nothing from the natural mind, all has been revelation straight from the word of God written.
And the revelation from the word of God written gives the lie to the revelation of which you speak.
You've got a choice to make, Paul, between revelation given in God's word written, and the revelation.

Paul, you really need to re-evaluate your understanding,
for it is not the understanding given by God's Son Jesus Christ (1Jn 5:20).

 

[zone]

YES TIN TIN - READ IT CAREFULLY - IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT - Now read Acts 4:12 and Colossians 3:17 - What is the NAME of GOD ...JESUS CHRIST.....andJesus said: "Before Abraham was I AM" referring to what He (Jehovah) said to Moses...He was the GREAT I AM .... try this.....if you send someone to a bank with a cheque with FATHER, SON, HOLY GHOST on it...the clerk will say...these are titles...but what is the NAME of this person with these TITLES?...unless I have the NAME you can't hope to cash the cheque.....that's why EVERY baptism in the Book of Acts was "IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST"...nowhere...IN THE TITLES ....ALWAYS IN THE NAME...Baptizing infants in the TITLES was instituted by MAN hundreds of years after Christ ...how old was Jesus when He was baptized? He was 30 years old...a man...infants can't repent...Jesus didn't have to but what did He say to John? Math 3:15 "Suffer it to be so"...in other words.....baptize me anyway John...WHY?...read it...."to fulfill all righteousness"....in other words....as a MAN, I must be baptized, and Jesus gave us the example of how to be baptized and why ALL men need to be...HOW? ..read it...(Math 3:16)...He CAME UP OUT OF THE WATER...IMMERSION is the only form of baptism....you won't find sprinkling n infant anywhere......just one more thing that MAN changed hundreds of years AFTER Christ.....and you wonder why there's so much controversy over this subject matter - people need THE REVELATION and everything else will fall into place....let this be your EPIPHANY...thank you for your challenge...Lord bless

Eagleridge,
are you or have you been a Shepherd's Chapel student/watcher?

 

[zone]

To: Eagleridge

I'm now commenting on the born again scripture . Not the trinity .

Not to nit pick . But I see a a issue in your reasoning about the ; being born again, scripture. The English Bible should not be your final authority on a matter. But you should consult the manuscripts we have of the Bible.
You can do this with a Strong's Concordance of the King James Bible.

I think that we can be in agreement that if one idea, is wrong, and we see that idea as sure or true, that one little thought can be used to help guide us or lead us to the next. But if the initial assumption was in wrong; it can lead us off course. The farther we travel from there. the farther away from our destination we become.

To use this scripture as an example :


John 3:1-21 (KJV)

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Let me see now, what this word actually is in the Greek it was taken from :

again :


anwqen
anothen
an'-o-then


from anw - ano 507; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.



Now lets re read this :


3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man first be born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.



What does above mean ?

Gen1:

Let us make man in Our,,, image. Where did your soul come from ? Well it came from God. All souls belong to God-(Ezekiel 18:4)


The angels that were not born from above, of women in the water of the womb, left their place in heaven, and fell from above that Jude plainly teaches-(Jude 1:6)

Christ is saying, you must be born from above,from heaven to the water of the womb, to even participate in Salvation.
Not as the angels did in Gen 6:


So you see. if your not careful it is easy to be lead from the truth as so many in the world are. This is a small illustration of the confusion people are in now. This is not the worst of it.

nathan - we were not the morning stars who sang.
we did not pre-exist as spirit beings.
God does not have a line-up of us up there standing by to enter our flesh suits.
we are not here on a mission to work with semi-erased memories of having been Elohim, but now here to help rescue the 1/3 of our angel brothers who took part in satan's rebellion, us who are the loyal spirit beings who stood firm for God in the rebellion in the First Earth Age.

like....okay?

born from above is the new birth by the Spirit.
water is water baptism, not amniotic fluid.

okay?

 

[tribesman]

nathan - we were not the morning stars who sang.
we did not pre-exist as spirit beings.
God does not have a line-up of us up there standing by to enter our flesh suits.
we are not here on a mission to work with semi-erased memories of having been Elohim, but now here to help rescue the 1/3 of our angel brothers who took part in satan's rebellion, us who are the loyal spirit beings who stood firm for God in the rebellion in the First Earth Age.

like....okay?

born from above is the new birth by the Spirit.
water is water baptism, not amniotic fluid.

okay?

Not sure if your reply will be taken as sophisticated enough. On spot it is tho, for those who happens to care.

 

[zone]

This "Spirit" is Jehovah. When The Body was in the water, it was not subject to the "fallen". Angels can not enter water. Thus Jehovah appeared and returned to the Body when it came out.

say what?