I have answered this already. Faith with ought works is dead. I have to do good works that are good and pleasing to our God. You believe that by having faith the rest falls in place [salvation, works ext] What is the difference between faith and believe? Even the devil believes in God but he has not repented. The mere act of repentance is a work. The thief in the cross rebuked the other thief and defended Jesus, that is a work, the thief did something. Why is this basic truth so hard to grasp? Is it my bad english? Do I misspelled too many words or place the words out of order and I do not make sense? I wish we could chat live but I can not get on live chat because if a server error saying my name is already in use in chat. But really this is a simple truth why you fight it?
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@Rock022
Hello Rock, you are saying the Bible does not contradict itself which is true and this is how we know our understanding of the Bible is correct.
This is good theology which is made all the better when we compare our beliefs against the whole of scripture rather than taking verses in isolation. The teaching of all the main themes in the Bible which include salvation, faith, works and remaining firm in Christ all need to be put into the balance and weighed and measured against each other so that all agree and in this way we will be standing on the rock rather than building on sand.
I'm only trying to help. I hope you understand.
Hello Rock, you are saying the Bible does not contradict itself which is true and this is how we know our understanding of the Bible is correct.
This is good theology which is made all the better when we compare our beliefs against the whole of scripture rather than taking verses in isolation. The teaching of all the main themes in the Bible which include salvation, faith, works and remaining firm in Christ all need to be put into the balance and weighed and measured against each other so that all agree and in this way we will be standing on the rock rather than building on sand.
I'm only trying to help. I hope you understand.
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There has been no argument between us about the fact that faith without works is dead (or that works without faith is dead). What we are talking about here is whether our works are any ground or cause for our salvation or the condition for same - or not. If the latter, they are but expressions of our faith. You obviously believe that your works are instrumentally conditional in saving you, while I believe that works are but a fruit of a salvation already received. Two positions as opposite as east is from the west.
Not really. I'd say that salvation (regeneration/justification) generates such fruit as faith, repentance and good works. They "falls in place" by way of the natural and organic life in the body (of Christ), they won't automatically drop down from nowhere.
A belief can be false or in the lie, a belief can be a mere mental assent to something that in effect means nothing to a person. None of these produce any good fruit. Man can have "faith" in anything else (especially himself) than the work of Christ alone as the only way for him to be saved. That would be a false, non-saving "faith". Scripture says about saved believers that "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2Thess.2:13). So, yes, mere belief in whatever fancies man and false faith will not save anyone.
Repentance is not described as a "work" in scripture (although works are part of repentance) but as a gift. A godly repentance has its origin in God and not man (Acts 5:31).
As I see it, you are fighting the simple truth and the clear scriptural teaching on justification and basically all that Paul wrote about it. You do this because you place your RC tradition (and what it says about salvation) above what scripture says. You believe that your salvation is conditioned not on the work of Christ alone but on your works and you also believe that "there is never enough" work "to do". Which is tragic. I can only hope that you will come to see what the gospel actually is.
Not really. I'd say that salvation (regeneration/justification) generates such fruit as faith, repentance and good works. They "falls in place" by way of the natural and organic life in the body (of Christ), they won't automatically drop down from nowhere.
A belief can be false or in the lie, a belief can be a mere mental assent to something that in effect means nothing to a person. None of these produce any good fruit. Man can have "faith" in anything else (especially himself) than the work of Christ alone as the only way for him to be saved. That would be a false, non-saving "faith". Scripture says about saved believers that "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2Thess.2:13). So, yes, mere belief in whatever fancies man and false faith will not save anyone.
Repentance is not described as a "work" in scripture (although works are part of repentance) but as a gift. A godly repentance has its origin in God and not man (Acts 5:31).
As I see it, you are fighting the simple truth and the clear scriptural teaching on justification and basically all that Paul wrote about it. You do this because you place your RC tradition (and what it says about salvation) above what scripture says. You believe that your salvation is conditioned not on the work of Christ alone but on your works and you also believe that "there is never enough" work "to do". Which is tragic. I can only hope that you will come to see what the gospel actually is.
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Yes exactly for it is God's works by Faith (belief) in God that God does God's works through the Believer via The Holy Ghost. Remember Paul saying I am crucified never the less I live, He is dead but alive by the Holy Ghost. So if he is dead are we not the same being believers. So since I am dead crucified and it is the Holy Ghost that holds me up as alive, then who is that does the works? Yes God through The Holy Ghost. Remain there in this belief without a doubt, or even learn to for this is truth 100%
Yes I place my faith In Jesus church. He said He will always be with with His church should I doubt His words? Rome can be very corrupt, do you think that this comes from man or evil? Every non catholic like to play the corrupt church as if this was a secret that catholics do not know. How is it that no matter what, the catholic church has not crumble? Because Jesus built His church on a Rock. There is biblical proof for every single doctrine.
Now lets look at the truth of sola scripture. First of all, the bible never says scripture is the rule of faith. As a matter of fact the bible never says scripture only, that is a man made belief. If the truth was to be the bible only why is it that none of you guys agree on what the truth is. Some say they agree on essentials but the bible never speaks of essentials. The bible speaks of truth. We are to be one church united in Christ all believing the same. Catholics do not threaten each other beliefs, we just have different stages of faith.
Do you believe our knowledge of the truth can grow? I know I do. By learning from the elders we can maintain this growth. By doubting we simply not grow.
Out of all the millions of catholics you really believe none of us have look to see if what we are taught is false? I know I have look for the truth ,and so have the majority.
You are quick to point out what people belief false. Have you really taken the time to see why the catholic church really believes and why?
Now lets look at the truth of sola scripture. First of all, the bible never says scripture is the rule of faith. As a matter of fact the bible never says scripture only, that is a man made belief. If the truth was to be the bible only why is it that none of you guys agree on what the truth is. Some say they agree on essentials but the bible never speaks of essentials. The bible speaks of truth. We are to be one church united in Christ all believing the same. Catholics do not threaten each other beliefs, we just have different stages of faith.
Do you believe our knowledge of the truth can grow? I know I do. By learning from the elders we can maintain this growth. By doubting we simply not grow.
Out of all the millions of catholics you really believe none of us have look to see if what we are taught is false? I know I have look for the truth ,and so have the majority.
You are quick to point out what people belief false. Have you really taken the time to see why the catholic church really believes and why?
All over the bible from Genesis to Revelations we find time and time again that we must do good deeds and good works. Why do you simply toss those out and cling to other scriptures. When there are two opposing truths found in the bible, one does not trump the other. Because Paul said this does not mean we do nothing. The simple fact that you turn on the computer and chat with us here is your work. Or is it the Holy Spirit? When you get mad, is that the Holy Spirit or is it you? Faith is not the one and all. There is much to do. When you go to church is it you searching for God or is it the Holy Spirit that took you there?
How is it that christians can sin even when they have faith? If faith is all that is required and God takes care of the rest. Demons believe in God, are they saved?
How is it that christians can sin even when they have faith? If faith is all that is required and God takes care of the rest. Demons believe in God, are they saved?
Faith + works Rock okay tell us what works? is it flesh works or God work's? Does a tree branch work to produce its fruit? Or does it trust in the tree to produce the fruit in and through the branch? Are we the branches or the tree? We are the branches, and Christ is the tree, along with the Father and Holy Ghost. The branch in order to have life must abide in the tree. the tree branch can do nothing on its own, it has to abide for real fruit to be produced by the tree in and through the branch.
Therefore brother what are we thosde that believe are we fruit bearers by the tree (Jesus) or fruit producers as Adam and Eve became after they ate of the tree of evil that masquerades as good. They became dead in the Spirit of God and alive to the flesh and the flesh first born in this world has always become fruit producers. Then truth comes along and we are to die to producing anything on our own, and become innerdependant on God alone.
Like a baby in the womb, during the pregnancy if anyone could talk to that baby while still in the womb, that baby would say, I am crucified never the less I live, for Mom gave herself for me, mom lives for me, mom eats for me, mom speaks for me, mom goes here and there for me
Thanks Rock itseems you have astrong desire to know the living God just as the others thaty say by faith only. You are correct about works but one I see needs to seperate what works are.
So if I say I haved Faith, and I am not bearing fruit from God, then I would have to question what is my Faith in? You see it is not Faith that saves us it is what is ones faith in. We could have faith in swallowing to live, but one could be fed poison and die if ones faith is in swallowing in order to live. So what is your faith in ? Mine is in Jesus Christ the author and finisher of my Faith, the I of me is out of the way I have died hoping this is with you as well if not if you are God's God will correct even this in you as he does for all his children
Therefore brother what are we thosde that believe are we fruit bearers by the tree (Jesus) or fruit producers as Adam and Eve became after they ate of the tree of evil that masquerades as good. They became dead in the Spirit of God and alive to the flesh and the flesh first born in this world has always become fruit producers. Then truth comes along and we are to die to producing anything on our own, and become innerdependant on God alone.
Like a baby in the womb, during the pregnancy if anyone could talk to that baby while still in the womb, that baby would say, I am crucified never the less I live, for Mom gave herself for me, mom lives for me, mom eats for me, mom speaks for me, mom goes here and there for me
Thanks Rock itseems you have astrong desire to know the living God just as the others thaty say by faith only. You are correct about works but one I see needs to seperate what works are.
So if I say I haved Faith, and I am not bearing fruit from God, then I would have to question what is my Faith in? You see it is not Faith that saves us it is what is ones faith in. We could have faith in swallowing to live, but one could be fed poison and die if ones faith is in swallowing in order to live. So what is your faith in ? Mine is in Jesus Christ the author and finisher of my Faith, the I of me is out of the way I have died hoping this is with you as well if not if you are God's God will correct even this in you as he does for all his children
Once you know, God just loves you by the death, burial, resurrrection ascenscion and deliverance of the Holy Ghost with fire, there is no turning back, there is no backsliding as man has imputed for fear to the believer and causes him to go back from where he has never yet been. I am sorry either you are alive in Christ or you are dead in the flesh. There is no in between. There is in ones own conscience where the believer sways back and forth notknowiing truth as truth is, but God who has received you the believer is able to get, yuo, you, and you to stand therefore we are to just love each other Holy as God did us while were yet sinners not knowing
[h=3]Romans 14[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]The Law of Liberty[/h]14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
So let us each say our views with no condemnation and if what we do is working for us, does not mean it works for another. The bottom line is DO WE BELIEVE FROM OUR OWN HEARTS!!!! THUS WE CAN ALL GROW WITH SHARING OUR EXPERIENCES
[h=3]Romans 14[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]The Law of Liberty[/h]14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
So let us each say our views with no condemnation and if what we do is working for us, does not mean it works for another. The bottom line is DO WE BELIEVE FROM OUR OWN HEARTS!!!! THUS WE CAN ALL GROW WITH SHARING OUR EXPERIENCES
Homward you have a beautiful way of looking at faith. But lets look at creation. Adam and Eve walked with God, they knew Him. They Loved Him. THey where closer to God than us. What did they do? Sin why? Because we have free will. After the fall of man we can see the story of our humanity with Able and Cain. Both where pleasing God, they worked to please Him. But envy caused one to kill the other. Just like we have today, those who work in pleasing God and those who envy and try to kill those works. Jesus Himself worked. Jesus did not wanted to die, but that was the will of the Father so Jesus did as the Father wanted.
To do good is to please God. That is a work. We have free will and choose to please Him or please ourselves. But here is the catch in why is it so fine a line with faith plus works. One is not more important than the other. I can not say I am going to work my salvation ,just like I can not say I will just have faith. Both are equal, I do not want to sound like one is more important than other.
When a child goes to the father and asks his father for money so he can buy him a gift. The Father gives the money to the child and the child goes to buy a present. Chooses a gift wraps it and bring it to the father. The father gave the means to do it, the child chose to please him. The child did a good deed [work]
To do good is to please God. That is a work. We have free will and choose to please Him or please ourselves. But here is the catch in why is it so fine a line with faith plus works. One is not more important than the other. I can not say I am going to work my salvation ,just like I can not say I will just have faith. Both are equal, I do not want to sound like one is more important than other.
When a child goes to the father and asks his father for money so he can buy him a gift. The Father gives the money to the child and the child goes to buy a present. Chooses a gift wraps it and bring it to the father. The father gave the means to do it, the child chose to please him. The child did a good deed [work]
Rock what do you do with this scripture? Matthew 19:17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
First of all this was before The death of Christ the new covenant that we all are under that believe today Hebrews 9:15-17 and Christ being under the law at this time as he was fullfilling it showed the Jews that they were wretched and no good at all, Jesus included himself and only spoke of his Father as being the only one that is Good! Jesus did not of himself do any of the good works that he perfromed, he saidnothing or did nothing without thr Father's directing him through the Holy Ghost
Therefore for me to do any good works I would have to claim Iam God. I am not, therefore I by me can never please God for I cannot do good works for I am not good nor you nor you and nor you
But Good (God) works from God himself living through you not just in you therefore God can and does do these good works that you speak of but they are not mine, or yours or yours.
Jesus himself was only a vessel for God his Father we are to be the same in love
First of all this was before The death of Christ the new covenant that we all are under that believe today Hebrews 9:15-17 and Christ being under the law at this time as he was fullfilling it showed the Jews that they were wretched and no good at all, Jesus included himself and only spoke of his Father as being the only one that is Good! Jesus did not of himself do any of the good works that he perfromed, he saidnothing or did nothing without thr Father's directing him through the Holy Ghost
Therefore for me to do any good works I would have to claim Iam God. I am not, therefore I by me can never please God for I cannot do good works for I am not good nor you nor you and nor you
But Good (God) works from God himself living through you not just in you therefore God can and does do these good works that you speak of but they are not mine, or yours or yours.
Jesus himself was only a vessel for God his Father we are to be the same in love
Demons do not excercise their faith in God. it is through excercising and what one has faith in that corrects them as they grow, God has past tense taken care of all one needs through the cross of christ for there is no more forgiveness to be executed there is no more love to be shown it is finished as Christ said it at the cross when he gave up the Ghost a new covenant took place and there is a cloud of witnesses in hebrews 11 along with The Gentile was never once given the law to obey it was given to the Jews. Paul who was Saul born under the law gave up the law in order to gain Christ. Therefore he gave us Faith in Christ Jesus. And this was done through God to make his chosen ones that he gave the law to through moses Jealous. He grafted us in and I do not think to take advantage of such a miraculous grace rather I am thankful
Love you Rock
Love you Rock
I enter just reading the title of this thread and not the posts.
The problem with that terminology - "Once saved always saved" is that it makes
an assumption based on the mind of the creation(mankind).
Who knows the mind of God?
So who is to say, "I am saved". - The very statement is proud.
Who can claim "I was saved once, so therefore I will always be".
No theologian ever claimed that.
No Apostle, no, not the Lord Himself.
It is a spiritually proud proclamation which no believer in God as the
one who draws ever would say or accept.
It is a denigrating term. No one ever claimed it.
Salvation is an experience.
Sanctification is a process.
Either Jesus is within you from the beginning (salvation) or He is not.
Either He leads you into the mysteries of grace or He doesn't.
It is folly to claim such unknown things as to say once I am saved, (well since I am) I will always be saved.
Who are you?! The potter or the vessel.
Calvin never stated it. All he said was we can't have just a part of Jesus.
Using this text - I Cor. 1:[SUP]30 "[/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom,
and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
We either have Him in whole or we have no part in Him.
And, He(Jesus, potter) who has begun a good work will finish it.
But it is not up to any creation(vessel) to say, - "I was saved, so hereby I will always be".
The evidence of a yielded vessel is staying under the potter's hands.
Such an one would never claim the attributes of deity by saying, "I am." - (Which is what that
terminology connotes).
The problem with that terminology - "Once saved always saved" is that it makes
an assumption based on the mind of the creation(mankind).
Who knows the mind of God?
So who is to say, "I am saved". - The very statement is proud.
Who can claim "I was saved once, so therefore I will always be".
No theologian ever claimed that.
No Apostle, no, not the Lord Himself.
It is a spiritually proud proclamation which no believer in God as the
one who draws ever would say or accept.
It is a denigrating term. No one ever claimed it.
Salvation is an experience.
Sanctification is a process.
Either Jesus is within you from the beginning (salvation) or He is not.
Either He leads you into the mysteries of grace or He doesn't.
It is folly to claim such unknown things as to say once I am saved, (well since I am) I will always be saved.
Who are you?! The potter or the vessel.
Calvin never stated it. All he said was we can't have just a part of Jesus.
Using this text - I Cor. 1:[SUP]30 "[/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom,
and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
We either have Him in whole or we have no part in Him.
And, He(Jesus, potter) who has begun a good work will finish it.
But it is not up to any creation(vessel) to say, - "I was saved, so hereby I will always be".
The evidence of a yielded vessel is staying under the potter's hands.
Such an one would never claim the attributes of deity by saying, "I am." - (Which is what that
terminology connotes).
To be thankful requires an action, to love is an action. Look at how love is explained in the bible. Love is patient, love is kind ext. All those things Love is are actions, something we do. You see they go hand in hand, mano a mano with the faith. THis is why God told us faith with ought works is dead. Something as simple as to love you is work, but so is putting on a hard hat, steel toe boots and build a house.
I truly like the way you present faith, it is a faith full of love, I can see it in your words. But even explaining this to me you are working. This is why both go hand in hand. You can choose to stop this conversation and it is still something you do. It is an action. Just like you said about the demons, they do nothing to please God, they please themselves.
What you are explaining to me does not sound like faith, you just call it faith. I believe the word that would describe the beauty of how you see the relationship is called obedience, which is not faith. To love God it is more than just faith or works or obedience or love or grace. This are just words we use to explain the beauty of the Lord. They all go together for what is faith plus works good if there is no grace. They all matter.
I truly like the way you present faith, it is a faith full of love, I can see it in your words. But even explaining this to me you are working. This is why both go hand in hand. You can choose to stop this conversation and it is still something you do. It is an action. Just like you said about the demons, they do nothing to please God, they please themselves.
What you are explaining to me does not sound like faith, you just call it faith. I believe the word that would describe the beauty of how you see the relationship is called obedience, which is not faith. To love God it is more than just faith or works or obedience or love or grace. This are just words we use to explain the beauty of the Lord. They all go together for what is faith plus works good if there is no grace. They all matter.
I understsand what you are saying, yet brother before the eating of that tree of evil that masquerades as good and Adam and Eve were not aware of the flesh, being Naked they were alive in the Spirit of God not aware of flesh yet they had flesh but no conscience of it. So see this brother we are to become back unaware of the flesh, as Adam and Eve were and alive to God as Adam and Eve were before the tree of evil got in the way and slued them in the Spirit. God through Christ and one's faithful belief restores one back to the Garden of Eden where the tree of life remained until the time pre-appointed by Father came in Christ Jesus who is that tree of life. After Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden there was a cheribim put at the gate with a flaming sword turning all sides so that no one could get back in until Christ Jesus came to condemn all sin to the flesh. Which he did and now we those that believe can have eternal life so go and eat of this Tree Jesus Christ Now he said drink this blood of my new covenant and eat this bread for my broken body. You can now eat from the tree of life in the garden that you are now able to enter into and eat and drimk having EVERLASTING LIFE, this is through abiding, work of love is a by-product of this
Claim1 I am saved for the Holy Spirit has testified with my Spirit and my new Spirit born of God has testifeied with the Holy Spirit that God has got me covered smothered and drowned in him, I am saved. I must carry on the Good work he began in me! NO wait a minute I trust God through the Holy Ghost to carry on the good work That God began in me by my Faith in God for I am not good only God my Father through Christ is Good this is what Chrisat came to do for you brothers and sisters to set you free in him and only him not free to do evil works or act as if you are doing good works when your heart can be far from him, Christ did in your stead what you can not ever do in his stead? Believe and trust seek out and you will find truth leaving your old nature in the grave and staying alive in the Spiirit of God continuously, as Paul said he died daily to what his old nature the flesh that had been born with, a daily practice that after awhile becomes a habit then a characteristic then a trait and one stays in the Spirit of God, which keeps the old nature flesh dead
Praise and Glory to God the Son and God the Father and God the Holy Ghost
Praise and Glory to God the Son and God the Father and God the Holy Ghost
So are you saying that you will always be saved? I mean even if you stop continually relying on Jesus?
I didn't think so.
Who gives you the authority over your flesh?
Who is shaping you into the image of Jesus? You or Him?
Would you ever be bold enough to say, "I am saved therefore I will always be
no matter what I do"?
No. - The sign of a believer is reliance on the One in whom he/she believes.
Many fall away, yet are led back only by the unmerited favor of God.
But none who claim they own eternal life. - This is spiritual pride. Only God
owns eternity. That's all I'm saying.
I didn't think so.
Who gives you the authority over your flesh?
Who is shaping you into the image of Jesus? You or Him?
Would you ever be bold enough to say, "I am saved therefore I will always be
no matter what I do"?
No. - The sign of a believer is reliance on the One in whom he/she believes.
Many fall away, yet are led back only by the unmerited favor of God.
But none who claim they own eternal life. - This is spiritual pride. Only God
owns eternity. That's all I'm saying.
Rock yes it is work brother, but it is not my work it is God's work through me by my Faith in him by my trust in him. Now what he has showed me is this: I was saved at age 12, Ibelieved and God from his side view of things accepted me, I went on doing my thing as I saw fit had bad experiences and good ones. at one point in my life attending a certain Church I got convicted of the sexual sins that are so prevalent in today society. I wanted to quit and please God oh Boy! amd I set out to do exactly this going to church every Sunday repenting of my terrible sexual thoughts of other women, that just kept popping up eveywhere I went. Now understand this is what was going on that I can't be doing this what is wrong with me. I got to the point that I thought that I was going to have to gouge out my eyes as Jesus said under the old covenant in Matthew prior to his death. if you so much as lust in your heart it the same as doing it therefore gouge out your eye better for part of you to go to heaven than all of you go to hell. This battle went on for years and to satisfy my self because the thoughts would control meto the point that I would yes masturbate as which is so common to mankind, behind closed doors. Which after doing this it brought anger on to others close to me as which is not uncommon to mankind.
I tried so hard as I hear you saying brother we must work and faith is dead without works. I have been there, I came to the end of the energy of my own flesh and yelled angry as hell I GIVE UP!!!!!
That is when I heard thank you from God. I repied what? and this is what I heard in my heart I (God) have been waiting for you to give up working from the enrgy of your own flesh and know you desire above anything else to serve me (GOD) so Please just leave your trying to do what you found out you can't do to me and I (GOD) will do it through you and you for you just hide in me protected by me (God) and I (GOD) will give you all the credit for being my vessel just as my Son Jesus was and is. This to this day has happened done my conscience purged from sin as what he wanted done thorugh his Son this is in Hebrews where Jesus speaks of this that how Father was never pleased in the sacrifices and gifts of his first chosen ones. God wants each of us that believe to enter into his rest and this is done by belief in him then works God's works are performed such as Noah yes his work was not his own it was his belief that caused him to move, not of himself he believed God so it was counted unto him as righteousness same with Abraham yes Faith is dead without works, but today brother it is no longer my works it is God's works through my steadsfast belief in God to do what ever God wants to do with me as a vessel and nothing else. Remember Jesus said nothing or did nothiing without Father's direction totally dependant on Father. Waht a great example to become totally innerdependant insted of independant
Love you God's way so today bering in the new covenat I love because by God I am loved period, I forgive and take no offense because God has past already done this through the cross of his Son jesus Christ and therefore 1Cor.13:4 on which is the true love of God has taken perfect effect in the new me that is hidden in him therefore there is even more works done through me not actually bering me, it is God using me, for I am at rest in him Hebrews 3 and 4 explain this well just ask God himself to reveal truth to you
In love to all that read this
I tried so hard as I hear you saying brother we must work and faith is dead without works. I have been there, I came to the end of the energy of my own flesh and yelled angry as hell I GIVE UP!!!!!
That is when I heard thank you from God. I repied what? and this is what I heard in my heart I (God) have been waiting for you to give up working from the enrgy of your own flesh and know you desire above anything else to serve me (GOD) so Please just leave your trying to do what you found out you can't do to me and I (GOD) will do it through you and you for you just hide in me protected by me (God) and I (GOD) will give you all the credit for being my vessel just as my Son Jesus was and is. This to this day has happened done my conscience purged from sin as what he wanted done thorugh his Son this is in Hebrews where Jesus speaks of this that how Father was never pleased in the sacrifices and gifts of his first chosen ones. God wants each of us that believe to enter into his rest and this is done by belief in him then works God's works are performed such as Noah yes his work was not his own it was his belief that caused him to move, not of himself he believed God so it was counted unto him as righteousness same with Abraham yes Faith is dead without works, but today brother it is no longer my works it is God's works through my steadsfast belief in God to do what ever God wants to do with me as a vessel and nothing else. Remember Jesus said nothing or did nothiing without Father's direction totally dependant on Father. Waht a great example to become totally innerdependant insted of independant
Love you God's way so today bering in the new covenat I love because by God I am loved period, I forgive and take no offense because God has past already done this through the cross of his Son jesus Christ and therefore 1Cor.13:4 on which is the true love of God has taken perfect effect in the new me that is hidden in him therefore there is even more works done through me not actually bering me, it is God using me, for I am at rest in him Hebrews 3 and 4 explain this well just ask God himself to reveal truth to you
In love to all that read this
E
Why do you keep going back here? This does not prove your point, In order for this to prove your point your bound to prove it. And the only way you can prove it is to prove how much work James said we MUST do. can you do this? Because if you can not all you have done is use a passage which does not prove your point.
James had just made the comment that if you show partiality, you have broken the law of loving your neighbor. And by it you are convicted by the law as transgressors. And thus rightly condemned as a breaker of the whole law. Hid point was that even if you do not break some of them, you can;t think yourself righteous, for you are still guilty of some. These people were sinners, according to the law.
Then he states a fact. not only are they sinners according to the law. They are not doint any works. they are hearers and NOT DOERS. They claim to have faith (just a claim) but have zero works. Can their faith save them
so these people have zero faith and zero works.. And you want to use this to prove you have to have both?? Your taking this passage out of context to support your works based Gospel.
There is NO scripture that says we must work to earn salvation. Scripture says those with true faith WILL WORK. A HUGE difference.
Most of the new testament is written to show children of God how to walk and grow in Christ. Not how to be saved, As Paul said, the OT is more than enough to show us how to be saved. The gospels tell us why and more how we can be saved, and the epistles show us once we are saved how to act.
But you can;t see this. Because you listen to your church, not the word of God.
E
I have shown and proved to you time and time that dead faith is no faith. How can one be saved with NO FAITH?
I have also shown you time and time again, that works added to faith to earn salvation is faith in self and not God. but you can;t see this either. Paul said it many times, Your argument is with Paul. James agrees with Paul. we do not work to earn salvation, we work because we HAVE faith (salvation.)
Your right, Those who HAVE faith will work. Those who DO NOT HAVE FAITH will not.
so what is your point? it is not the works in question, it is the faith.. You want to make work and issue where there is no issue. Your twisting scripture.
Faith only it is not a theory, it is a biblical truth. Paul spent every letter he wrote fighting a works plus faith Gospel. Forgive me if I chose to trust him over the men you put your eternity into.
I am condemning a false teaching. We all should. One of us is right one is wrong. The wrong one will spend eternity in hell if they do not repent. Your still trusting self.. so have you truly repented?? If you trusted in God and Christ alone, you would not worry about whether maybe you will be saved, you would know. But you can;t because you still have to rely on self
Amen to this.
But I hope you find truth to.
I have also shown you time and time again, that works added to faith to earn salvation is faith in self and not God. but you can;t see this either. Paul said it many times, Your argument is with Paul. James agrees with Paul. we do not work to earn salvation, we work because we HAVE faith (salvation.)
Your right, Those who HAVE faith will work. Those who DO NOT HAVE FAITH will not.
so what is your point? it is not the works in question, it is the faith.. You want to make work and issue where there is no issue. Your twisting scripture.
Faith only it is not a theory, it is a biblical truth. Paul spent every letter he wrote fighting a works plus faith Gospel. Forgive me if I chose to trust him over the men you put your eternity into.
I am condemning a false teaching. We all should. One of us is right one is wrong. The wrong one will spend eternity in hell if they do not repent. Your still trusting self.. so have you truly repented?? If you trusted in God and Christ alone, you would not worry about whether maybe you will be saved, you would know. But you can;t because you still have to rely on self
Amen to this.
But I hope you find truth to.