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Truthseeker, as you have found out there is NO easy answer for your question. we might think we understand...but, in reality I do not think the trinity is something that can understood while here on earth. This is one of the things that I just do not worry myself about. My salvation does hinge on whether I understand everything.
I do believe that we will be made incorruptible and we will put on immortality. . .Jesus was not left in the grave so his body did not see corruption. . . we must? . . .I don't see in scripture that Jesus ascended in his "flesh and bone" body but I do see where that "there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body". Do we know for a certainty what that spiritual body consist of. . .no we do not so it is not feasible to tell someone they must believe that the body of Christ is in heaven and is in the same condition that it was when it went into the sepulcher. . . .
Let me ask you something. . . Christ dwells in us. . . the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God dwell in us via the gift of Holy Spirit. . . .do we have a flesh and bone Christ dwelling is us? Sounds sorta dumb doesn't it? But again, we do not know for a certainty what a "spiritual body" consist of. . . . .
Let me ask you something. . . Christ dwells in us. . . the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God dwell in us via the gift of Holy Spirit. . . .do we have a flesh and bone Christ dwelling is us? Sounds sorta dumb doesn't it? But again, we do not know for a certainty what a "spiritual body" consist of. . . . .
All I know is that Jesus is the Son of God. . . .and if I believe that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. . .then I have eternal life. I talk to God and sometimes I talk to Jesus. . .we are to have fellowship with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. I went through the "questioning" thing a long time ago - yes, mind boggling!!! My thing is why would God tell us he sent his Son when he actually sent himself?. . . .What would be the purpose? Why not just tell us he was coming to earth in a body to redeem mankind?
Oh, well. . .everybody has to work out their own salvation. . . .
Oh, well. . .everybody has to work out their own salvation. . . .
Hi Berean
I know the above was posted for Elin, but I would like to give my thoughts on it if I may
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He *said to the paralytic,[SUP]11 [/SUP]“I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home
All authority in Heaven and on earth, has been given to me
Matt 28:18
Who gave Christ authority?
I have received authority from my Father
Rev2:27
So the Father gave Christ authority
And:
He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil[SUP][a][/SUP] spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
Matt10:1
As the Father gave the Son authority, so the Son gave the disciples authority.
But directly in relation to the point of your post:
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John 20:22&23
As the Father gave the son authority, so the son gave the disciples authority.
I know the above was posted for Elin, but I would like to give my thoughts on it if I may
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He *said to the paralytic,[SUP]11 [/SUP]“I say to you, get up, pick up your pallet and go home
All authority in Heaven and on earth, has been given to me
Matt 28:18
Who gave Christ authority?
I have received authority from my Father
Rev2:27
So the Father gave Christ authority
And:
He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil[SUP][a][/SUP] spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
Matt10:1
As the Father gave the Son authority, so the Son gave the disciples authority.
But directly in relation to the point of your post:
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John 20:22&23
As the Father gave the son authority, so the son gave the disciples authority.
J
Jhn 14:12 KJV - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Jhn 14:13 KJV - And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Jhn 14:14 KJV - If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].
Jhn 15:16 KJV - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Exd 6:3 KJV - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Isa 12:1 KJV - And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
Isa 12:2 KJV - Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is become my salvation.
Isa 12:3 KJV - Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Jhn 14:13 KJV - And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Jhn 14:14 KJV - If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].
Jhn 15:16 KJV - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Exd 6:3 KJV - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Isa 12:1 KJV - And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
Isa 12:2 KJV - Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is become my salvation.
Isa 12:3 KJV - Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Well to be honest Elin, to me deabte is a two way thing. Both participants answer each others questions. Yet you never answer any of mine. Even when I just ask your personal opinion of a subject that divides us you deflect and refuse to reply.
So that is no debate is it.
But I do take on board what you continually stress, which I have written below
There is no scripture in the Bible that states Jesus is God(Elin's continually expressed comment)
So that is no debate is it.
But I do take on board what you continually stress, which I have written below
There is no scripture in the Bible that states Jesus is God(Elin's continually expressed comment)
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Jesus is God in the Holy Bible merely based upon the established rules of Greek grammar...
Titus 2.13
προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου
prosdechomenoi tēn makarian elpida kai epiphaneian tēs doxēs tou megalou theou kai sōtēros ēmōn christou iēsou
Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Within the past couple years, renowned NT professor Dan Wallace had this to say regarding the expansion of the Granville Sharp rule of Greek Grammar…
Regarding the TSKS construction, Wallace has this to say…
C
How many Lords are there?
And God command all the angels to worship the Son
We are told to worship only God, the same form of worship Satan sought from Jesus and which Jesus said only belongs to God.
Either God gave us another God, or Jesus is God and worthy of worship.
If we know that God is the Creator and it was the Word who created all things and sustains all things by HIS OWN power, wouldn't that be enough to say that Jesus, the incarnated Word, is God the Creator?
And God command all the angels to worship the Son
We are told to worship only God, the same form of worship Satan sought from Jesus and which Jesus said only belongs to God.
Either God gave us another God, or Jesus is God and worthy of worship.
If we know that God is the Creator and it was the Word who created all things and sustains all things by HIS OWN power, wouldn't that be enough to say that Jesus, the incarnated Word, is God the Creator?
J
Jesus is the humanity born in the Body, the son of Mary. The Son of God, (the Father), is Jehovah. He is the only begotten of the Father. It was Jehovah that taught during the ministry. It was Jehovah that brought the Body to the cross. It was Jehovah that screamed, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?". It was Jehovah that went into Abraham's Bosom to bring the first fruit home. It was Jehovah that was in the resurrected Body of Christ for 40 days. It was Jehovah that appeared on the road to Damascus.