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After all that kerfuffle with trying to get you to explain who we must believe Christ to be unto salvation, I've had enough.
But anyways, I know now you won't accept the plain words of John
So I guess you would never expect me, to be consistent to accept any other of Johns plain words either. John ch1 comes to mind. You know what, I'm gonna quit tryin to give straightfoerward answers from, now on, irt just puts you at a disadvantage.
But anyways, I know now you won't accept the plain words of John
So I guess you would never expect me, to be consistent to accept any other of Johns plain words either. John ch1 comes to mind. You know what, I'm gonna quit tryin to give straightfoerward answers from, now on, irt just puts you at a disadvantage.
As for the worship, trawl back through the thread, I've replied to that before, as for the rest. It's pointless, you are I am afraid a head theologist, who will definately not accept the scriptural requirement of belief as to who Christ is unto salvation
Neither will you accept John 17:3 but you as do others just wanna discuss your reasoning and scripturers, sorry, no can do
But tell me. Will you roundly condemn as unfit to preach any minister who refuses to stand in the pulpit and plainly state that if a person believes Jesus is the son of God, but not God himself they cannot inherit eternal life with that belief and are therefore condemned
For I assume you believe passionately the Gospel must be plainly preached from the pulpit that you believe in , especially any salvational belief and the consequences of getting it wrong
Neither will you accept John 17:3 but you as do others just wanna discuss your reasoning and scripturers, sorry, no can do
But tell me. Will you roundly condemn as unfit to preach any minister who refuses to stand in the pulpit and plainly state that if a person believes Jesus is the son of God, but not God himself they cannot inherit eternal life with that belief and are therefore condemned
For I assume you believe passionately the Gospel must be plainly preached from the pulpit that you believe in , especially any salvational belief and the consequences of getting it wrong
Re: The Trinity
Isaiah 45:21
New International Version (©1984)
Declare what is to be, present it--let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Speak up and present your case-- yes, let them take counsel together. Who predicted this long ago? Who announced it from ancient times? Was it not I, Yahweh? There is no other God but Me, a righteous God and Savior; there is no one except Me.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Speak and present your case. Yes, let them consult one another. Who revealed this in the distant past and predicted it long ago? Wasn't it I, the LORD? There is no other God except me. There is no other righteous God and Savior besides me.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Tell and bring forth your case; yea, let them take counsel together: who has declared this from ancient time? who has told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no other God besides me; a just God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
~
Zechariah 14:9
New International Version (©1984)
The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth--Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zechariah 14:16
New International Version (©1984)
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
~
Deuteronomy 6:4
New International Version (©1984)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
English Standard Version (©2001)
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Isaiah 45:21
New International Version (©1984)
Declare what is to be, present it--let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Speak up and present your case-- yes, let them take counsel together. Who predicted this long ago? Who announced it from ancient times? Was it not I, Yahweh? There is no other God but Me, a righteous God and Savior; there is no one except Me.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Speak and present your case. Yes, let them consult one another. Who revealed this in the distant past and predicted it long ago? Wasn't it I, the LORD? There is no other God except me. There is no other righteous God and Savior besides me.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Tell and bring forth your case; yea, let them take counsel together: who has declared this from ancient time? who has told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no other God besides me; a just God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
~
Zechariah 14:9
New International Version (©1984)
The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth--Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zechariah 14:16
New International Version (©1984)
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
~
Deuteronomy 6:4
New International Version (©1984)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
English Standard Version (©2001)
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
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E
Rev.3
[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Seems like some party.....so there are SEVEN Spirits of God? So there is God the Father, God the Son and the SEVEN Holy Ghost/Spirits of God?
Does not sound like a "Trinity"!
.
[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Seems like some party.....so there are SEVEN Spirits of God? So there is God the Father, God the Son and the SEVEN Holy Ghost/Spirits of God?
Does not sound like a "Trinity"!
.
I don't understand why you would assume that I would condemn? This is a matter of fruitfulness, and an identity crisis. If people cannot understand who Jesus Christ of Nazareth is, then they won't understand who they really are. I don't need an explanation, just a yes or no. Do you believe that the Captain of the Host of the Lord, and the priest forever after the order of Melchisidec, and the name of the Son of God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth? Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The name is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. So a simple yes or no will do, and you don't have to give an explanation.
I have not read each of the posts in this thread, but the Trinity doctrine is interesting to me. So I would like to enter this discussion by asking crossnote or anyone to answer this question:
Is it true that if God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit were separated for even a moment in time, would that mean that the Trinity concept or doctrine is untrue?
Is it true that if God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit were separated for even a moment in time, would that mean that the Trinity concept or doctrine is untrue?
So you are like all the rest who make extra biblical demands for salvation, your conviction only lasts while you are on this website, then it vanishes. I am afraid to say that is vey shallow Christianity
I have many faults, but that ain't one of them
But I guess if people study because they revel in studying and then come on the internet so others may benefit from what they have learnt, they're not too bothered abouut heartfelt conviction. Part time convictional beliefs are not good though, are they
I have many faults, but that ain't one of them
But I guess if people study because they revel in studying and then come on the internet so others may benefit from what they have learnt, they're not too bothered abouut heartfelt conviction. Part time convictional beliefs are not good though, are they
E
Man has only known one God.....the one that is know as God the Son. The one known as God the Father has never been seen or heard by man at any time.
John 5
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
The God of the OT was in fact the one that is known as God the Son;
Pssm.22
[16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
[17] I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
[18] They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Zech.12
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
It is because of this that the scriptures say what they say;
Deut.6
[4] Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
The only God man has ever known or have had any dealings with is the one that is known as God the Son, or Jesus Christ.
Man will not have any dealings with the one known as God the Father until ALL is complete. In other words not until ALL judgment has been done and ALL are "Spirit Beings"
.
John 5
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
The God of the OT was in fact the one that is known as God the Son;
Pssm.22
[16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
[17] I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
[18] They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Zech.12
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
It is because of this that the scriptures say what they say;
Deut.6
[4] Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
The only God man has ever known or have had any dealings with is the one that is known as God the Son, or Jesus Christ.
Man will not have any dealings with the one known as God the Father until ALL is complete. In other words not until ALL judgment has been done and ALL are "Spirit Beings"
.
I already replied once to this question. Perhaps this will help you to understand.
Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Psa 139:17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Psa 139:17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Still avoiding the yes or no answer. If you don't know the answer, it's ok to say that you don't know. It is true that the Captain of the Host of the Lord, and the priest forever after the order of Melchisidec, and the name of the Son of God is called Jesus Christ of Nazareth. There is no denying this, and I know good and well that there are absolutely no scriptures to contradict what I have just written, which is probably why you have no choice but to ignore my questions. I answered yours, and if you truly love me, then you will answer mine.
E
If you have only known (1) God then that (1) God would be the only true God!
Who is this below that the elders saw in the OT?
Exod.24
[10] And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
[11] And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
.
Who is this below that the elders saw in the OT?
Exod.24
[10] And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
[11] And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
.
E
Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
So is it God the Father, God the Son and the (7) Spirits of God?
How can that be a "Trinity"?
.
Can anyone bear witness as to who this man is?
Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
I will answer your question IF you admit the ONLY NAme a person must believe Christ to be unto salvation is the Son of God, for that is what I have shown you that scripture plainly states. A person must believe Jesus is the son of God unto salvation, nothing more, not God Himself, not anything else, that name is all one must believe
If you will not accept that plain truth of scripture as I showed you, then I don't feel obliged to answer any question of yours, your choice
If you will not accept that plain truth of scripture as I showed you, then I don't feel obliged to answer any question of yours, your choice