The Trinity

[johnluke]

I already replied once to this question. Perhaps this will help you to understand.

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Psa 139:9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.


Psa 139:17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!


Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am going to guess from these scriptures that your answer would be "yes". If they were separated for one moment in time, the Trinity doctrine would be false.

Some of these scriptures inseparably connect us spiritually to the Godhead. Do you believe that because we are spiritually connected to the Godhead, that we are physically a part of the Godhead? For instance, I asked the question about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You gave me scriptures to prove that David can go nowhere without God being there, so do you believe that David is physically part of the Godhead? You mention another scripture that we cannot be separated from the love of God. Does that mean that we are physically part of the Godhead?

My point was that if there is one moment in time that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separated, then the Trinity doctrine starts to have a problem. It is a fact that if the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spriti are physically separate, then the Trinity doctrine is false, regardless of the fact that David can go nowhere where the Father is not.

It is true that the Godhead may be inseparably connected spiritually, and in this way they are never, even one moment in time separated. But as your scriptures elequently demonstrate, so are we. But are we physically connected? Are the three members of the Godhead truely of the same substance? Meaning that where Jesus is, the Father and the Holy Spirit are there too, always, inseparable, undivided. Where the Holy Spirit is, the Father and Jesus are there too, always, inseparabe, undivided. Where God is, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are there too, always, inseparable, undivided.

So if we go to the Bible for proof, one way or the other, what do we discover? We find addequate support for the Godhead being 3 distinct persons in 1 God (The Trinity), but we also find addequate support for the Godhead being 3 separate and distinct persons. So who is the winner? We hardly can debate the issue because the Bible is our only source for proof, and it gives both sides many wonderful scriptures with which to prove their point.

We are all fairly street smart, so where do we go from here? This whole thread is proof that I am right, in fact throughout the ages wars have been fought and many hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children have been killed over this very issue. So what is the answer? There are 100 extremely intelligent people in this chat room, will one of you answer my question? Where do we go from here?

 

[mark54]

There are 100 extremely intelligent people in this chat room, will one of you answer my question? Where do we go from here?[/QUOTE]


We all have our own opinions, BUT accept the biblical requirement of belief Christ laid down as to who a person must believe him to be unto salvation

Then, Christians can unite under the doctrine of Christ unto salvation

But

Beware of the scholar, beware of the philosopher.............

 

[Bowman]

Keep running...

Y Your above scriptures do not say Christ is GOD himself.

Jesus is God by the merits of Greek grammar, alone.

Ignoring this fact won't make it go away.

You have nothing...

 

[hopesprings]

An alternative conversation:

But who do you say I am he asked
Simon Peter replied
You are the Christ, the Son of the living God

Jesus sighs deeply

No Peter, that is not enough you must understand the full implications of that statement. You have to firstly realise I am a member of an equal Trinity consisting of Father, Son and Spirit. I have existed for all ages past as part of this Trinity. In the ontological sense of Trinity I cannot be subordinate to the father, but in the economic sense of Trinity I am.
It is vital you understand all things came from the Father through me. It is not enough to simply believe I am the son of God, you must believe I am God to be saved, even though I say I am not the one true God.

Peter starts scratching his head


You must also have a full understanding of the belief that will be called OSAS. And make sure everyone understands about the pre trib rapture, because it is vital they understand that subject correctly . and also what will become known as filique

But when you write books about your time with me you don't have to tell people who they must believe me to be to inherit eternal life, because scholars and theologians will do that for you. They will pour over your books and others and realise that is what you meant.

Peter shakes his head, he doesn't understand

Your made up story is funny...

 

[hopesprings]

You keep producing scripture that says Jesus is the SON of God, but no one is disputing that fact. We have produced scripture that says He is also fully God, yet you do not consider it and then accuse us of not 'standing on the plain words of Christ'. John 8:24 is a clear indication that Jesus called Himself the I am; it is the same as John 8:58.

The above is a classic example of these debates. Your above scriptures do not say Christ is GOD himself. heres a clear and plain scripture on the subject

Now this is eternal life(note what constitutes eternal life) that they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

So I have the plain scripture, you have the theological extrapolations of the natural mind. But I guess it wouldn't be any fun for you if you had to accept ther plain scripture as written, kinda stops all that striving to learn theologically of the little grey cells doesn't it.
So the plain words of Christ on this subect are sacrificed on the altar of the theologians and scholars, and the vanity of wanting to achieve learning via the little grey cells as that gives some a vain sense of achievement of themselves


Where is the wise man, where is the scholar, where is the philosopher of this age.................................................

First you say that you would like a plain verse that says you have to believe Jesus is God....then when you get that, you want to discredit it by saying you have to do head gymnastics to come to that conclusion.

Did you even read John 8:24?

Anyways...I am very curious as to how you can admit that there is only One God, then say that Jesus is God also but not the one True God. I'm confused. Please explain...I can start a new thread if you'd rather...

Oh, and I know that you have a lot of people to reply to, so please feel free to take your time. I am very interested in hearing your response tho...when you have time

 

[Abiding]

Mark! i came to my senses!

 

[Bowman]

But....

Looks like you are finally burnt-out.

It was only a matter of time...

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


This bit from the letter of Paul to Corinth illustrates that the head of man is Christ and the head of Christ is God, meaning Christ is essential for our connection in fellowshipping with the Father in heaven, essential for salvation;

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


1Co 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
1Co 16:21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand.
1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
1Co 16:23 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
1Co 16:24 My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus.


1Co 16:22 (may help with the interpretation)

(NIV)If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord[SUP][a][/SUP]!

(CEV) I pray that God will put a curse on everyone who doesn't love the Lord. And may the Lord come soon.

(ESV) If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come![SUP][a][/SUP]


(NKJV) If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed.[SUP][a][/SUP] O Lord, come![SUP][b][/SUP]

 

[mark54]

Your made up story is funny...

Many a true word was spoken in jest

 

[mark54]

First you say that you would like a plain verse that says you have to believe Jesus is God....then when you get that, you want to discredit it by saying you have to do head gymnastics to come to that conclusion.



I am still witing Hopespring. I have given you the plain words of Christ that states only the Father is the one true God. Yiou have given me no equally plain statement where Christ states

'I am the one true God Himself'
However, I have every confidence that will not be difficult for you to explain away
Did you even read John 8:24?

Anyways...I am very curious as to how you can admit that there is only One God, then say that Jesus is God also but not the one True God. I'm confused. Please explain...I can start a new thread if you'd rather...








Oh, and I know that you have a lot of people to reply to, so please feel free to take your time. I am very interested in hearing your response tho...when you have time

Anyways...I am very curious as to how you can admit that there is only One God, then say that Jesus is God also but not the one True God. I'm confused. Please explain...I can start a new thread if you'd rather...


Well by all means start a thread on it. I could write it all out here, but as you will ignore what I write and give me your ologies and isms not much point, so I will just give you two verses of scripture for now:


But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O GOD , will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore GOD, YOUR GOD, has set you above your companions
by anointing
Heb1:8&9

The Father speaks of the son with the Title God, BUT still says he is the Son's God. The point being there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. However you won't accept the plain words of Christ on that subject will you. You prefer what has to be extrapolated by the little grey cells, no buzz otherwise I guess

 

[mark54]

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


This bit from the letter of Paul to Corinth illustrates that the head of man is Christ and the head of Christ is God, meaning Christ is essential for our connection in fellowshipping with the Father in heaven, essential for salvation;

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


1Co 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
1Co 16:21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand.
1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
1Co 16:23 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
1Co 16:24 My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus.


1Co 16:22 (may help with the interpretation)

(NIV)If anyone does not love the Lord, let that person be cursed! Come, Lord[SUP][a][/SUP]!

(CEV) I pray that God will put a curse on everyone who doesn't love the Lord. And may the Lord come soon.

(ESV) If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come![SUP][a][/SUP]


(NKJV) If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed.[SUP][a][/SUP] O Lord, come![SUP][b][/SUP]

Maranatha

From my conversations with you, I believe you are sincere. Please, I mean this kindly. I have discussed this subject with many people. The more spiritually mature do not get involved in such a discussion, a discussion of trying to prove a person must accept Christ is God unto salvation(which however others may now try and eloquently word it that is what in effect they believe)
The ministers do not preach their Gospel on this subject from the pulpit, and the consequences of getting it wrong(or none do in Britain anyway and I doubt many do in the states)
Well over 90% of people who go to church would laugh at their comments here, and fully accept a person in their church as saved if they SOLELY believe Christ is the Son of God
I mean this kindly, don't get sucked in to their world of opposing the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto salvation, by adding to it
It's just head theology, not Spirit led, for the Spirit of God CANNOT contradict the word of God, for in Trinitarian terms that means God contradicts God and the belief collapses
God Bless

 

[mark54]

First you say that you would like a plain verse that says you have to believe Jesus is God....then when you get that, you want to discredit it by saying you have to do head gymnastics to come to that conclusion.

Did you even read John 8:24?

Anyways...I am very curious as to how you can admit that there is only One God, then say that Jesus is God also but not the one True God. I'm confused. Please explain...I can start a new thread if you'd rather...

Oh, and I know that you have a lot of people to reply to, so please feel free to take your time. I am very interested in hearing your response tho...when you have time

Actually I know you won't understand what I am talking about, but people in churches on the whole understand the spiritual reality, as do their ministers. Because the Holy Spirit lives in me, I know that Christ is completely Holy, the Father's prescence fully dwells in the Son, therefore, I know it is not about titles, but the person of Christ, fully Holy, the only begotten son of God who reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet.
Unfortunately some on the internet(and I only say some) have their heads so crammed full of the noahide laws, OSAS, predestination, the pre trib rapture, Revelation, Babylon, the antichrist, the beast with ten horns, filique etc, etc, etc. Their heads are crammed full to bursting, they don't have much time to be led of the Holy Spirit, they are swamped with all their ologies and isms. And they think because they have much theological understanding of issues, that much of the time aren't important to the walk of the Christian, they know enough to in their hearts condemn others who stand on the plain words of Christ unto salvation
For them the plain word is not enough, they are wise enough to stand on man made extrapolations that contradict the fundamental requirements of scripture unto salvation. Hence, this is an internet thing mostly, born out of those who consdider thmselves wise in their own eyes
Which makes me wonder, why people who obviously think they know better than the ministers in the Trinitarian churches(who on the whole do not preach their demands and the consequences of getting it wrong) and are so full of knowledge are languishing on the internet, and not ministers of churches packed to the rafters with people eager to hear all this knowledge they have. Tis a mystery to me, it truly is.

 

[mark54]

You have capitalized the word "holy" to make it read "Holy Spirit". God is holy and God is Spirit - who sent the angel of his presence and the glorious arm of power - his Spirit - this is not speaking of the Comforter, THE Holy Spirit. v2 plainly states: the angel of his presence saved them even continues in Ex. 33:2

Again, I will send my angel before thee; Isaiah 63:9 - angel of my presence
This is simply God sending "an agent or representative" that speaks and acts on full behalf of the one who sent him. The Israelites (being Jewish) understood the "principle of agency" full well. . .that the agent was regarded as the person himself.

Much like our modern day Power of Attorney. . . .

God did go with the Israelites via his Spirit and the presence of his angel.

"We know Christ did too (1Cor10:4)" Doesn't the above verses say that God will send his angel (Spirit, presence of his angel) before them? 1 Co. 10:4 says: . . .for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. A foreshadowing of the coming Messiah - Just as the manna given from heaven and the Passover Lamb, foreshadowed the coming Messiah representing the true bread from heaven [And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst] ; so also did the Rock from which they drank foreshadow the coming Messiah - [But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life].

Hi Peaceful believer
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, and thanks for your response
I take on board what you have said about the capitals, concerning holy spirit, there may be much to that, but I do myself believe Christ did go with the Israelites in the dessert, and I also believe God's power on earth(who I believe is the Holy Spirit)was there too.
God said to Moses:

See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.[SUP]22 [/SUP]If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you. [SUP]23 [/SUP]My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, and I will wipe them out.
Ex23:20-23

The 'angel' being referred to had 'my name'(God) in him
Also,
If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say,
The above would seem siginificant to me as we could say that is what happened when Christ walked this earth
Christ spoke the words of God on this earth
Also in the following chapter(24) 74 leaders of the Israelites saw the 'God of Israel, yet, no one has seen God at anytime(1John 4:12)
And no one has seen the Father except the son(jOHN6:46)

To me they are one and the same(the Father being the one true God)

Concerning the Holy Spirit being God Himself as one person. To be honest, I have myself always thought of the Spirit as being a person if you like in His own right(hope I haven't worded that badly for the theologians!)

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 16:13

The above doesn't seem to sound to me as the Spirit is God Himself, though I take your point concerning Annanias and Sapphira

I do agree with Donkeyfish and ECCL that John 17 shows us how Father and Son are one, or let us say as Christ was speaking while on earth how they were one while Christ walked this earth, for Christ prayed that the believers would be one AS he and his Father were one.
We the believers can only be as one in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit was on Christ in bolily shape/form when he walked this earth

But ultimately I do not believe man will ever, while he walks this earth fully understand this subject, the exact working of Father, Son and Spirit will always remain much of a mystery, but a subject that can pass many an hour in debate

Actually my only real difference with Equal Trinitarians is I believe the Father is the one true God and greater than the son, but it seems that it is a hanginig offence to many on these websites to take some of Christ's words literally and believe them
God Bless
Thank you for being a sane voice in an often mad enviroment

 

[zone]

Actually I know you won't understand what I am talking about, but people in churches on the whole understand the spiritual reality, as do their ministers. Because the Holy Spirit lives in me, I know that Christ is completely Holy, the Father's prescence fully dwells in the Son, therefore, I know it is not about titles, but the person of Christ, fully Holy, the only begotten son of God who reigns now in Heaven and on earth for the Father has put everything under his feet.
Unfortunately some on the internet(and I only say some) have their heads so crammed full of the noahide laws, OSAS, predestination, the pre trib rapture, Revelation, Babylon, the antichrist, the beast with ten horns, filique etc, etc, etc. Their heads are crammed full to bursting, they don't have much time to be led of the Holy Spirit, they are swamped with all their ologies and isms. And they think because they have much theological understanding of issues, that much of the time aren't important to the walk of the Christian, they know enough to in their hearts condemn others who stand on the plain words of Christ unto salvation
For them the plain word is not enough, they are wise enough to stand on man made extrapolations that contradict the fundamental requirements of scripture unto salvation. Hence, this is an internet thing mostly, born out of those who consdider thmselves wise in their own eyes
Which makes me wonder, why people who obviously think they know better than the ministers in the Trinitarian churches(who on the whole do not preach their demands and the consequences of getting it wrong) and are so full of knowledge are languishing on the internet, and not ministers of churches packed to the rafters with people eager to hear all this knowledge they have. Tis a mystery to me, it truly is.

fascinating...no reall......

 

[Tintin]

Wow, Mark. You joined CC after me and I have far less posts. Remember this is a competition. Most posts wins a place in Heaven!

 

[zone]

Their heads are crammed full to bursting, they don't have much time to be led of the Holy Spirit

i love this part

mah head ain't anywhere near being crammed full to bursting.
use it or lose it.

good thing, too....the gift of multi-tasking. having a renewed mind.
cuz if i'm not paying attention, i might actually believe someone who says Jesus became some form of deity (maybe) here:

Matthew 3:16
After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him

Francesco Albani's The Baptism of Christ, when Jesus became one with God according to Adoptionism

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Hi Peaceful believer
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, and thanks for your response
I take on board what you have said about the capitals, concerning holy spirit, there may be much to that, but I do myself believe Christ did go with the Israelites in the dessert, and I also believe God's power on earth(who I believe is the Holy Spirit)was there too.
God said to Moses:

See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.[SUP]22 [/SUP]If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you. [SUP]23 [/SUP]My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, and I will wipe them out.
Ex23:20-23

The 'angel' being referred to had 'my name'(God) in him

I am sending AN ANGEL AHEAD OF YOU - MY NAME IS IN HIM - I am sending an angel ahead of you and he represents me so listen carefully to what he says [he represents me and speaks for me] and do all that I say [through him]

Also,
If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say,
The above would seem siginificant to me as we could say that is what happened when Christ walked this earth
Christ spoke the words of God on this earth
Also in the following chapter(24) 74 leaders of the Israelites saw the 'God of Israel, yet, no one has seen God at anytime(1John 4:12)
And no one has seen the Father except the son(jOHN6:46)

To me they are one and the same(the Father being the one true God)

Ex. 33:20 And he [God] said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. The 74 leaders of the Israelites actually "saw" God with their eyes? . . .

The Hebrew and Greek words translated "see" also mean "to know, to realize". Everything in Christ was from God his Father - that's how he could and did say - Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, i.e. Anyone who knew Christ would know the Father. . For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. . [John 5:20] He represented God his Father while he was here on earth. Everything he said; everything he did was to glorify God his Father.

Concerning the Holy Spirit being God Himself as one person. To be honest, I have myself always thought of the Spirit as being a person if you like in His own right(hope I haven't worded that badly for the theologians!)

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 16:13

The above doesn't seem to sound to me as the Spirit is God Himself, though I take your point concerning Annanias and Sapphira

You come closer to being a Trinitarian than you think!!

I do agree with Donkeyfish and ECCL that John 17 shows us how Father and Son are one, or let us say as Christ was speaking while on earth how they were one while Christ walked this earth, for Christ prayed that the believers would be one AS he and his Father were one.
We the believers can only be as one in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit was on Christ in bolily shape/form when he walked this earth

But ultimately I do not believe man will ever, while he walks this earth fully understand this subject, the exact working of Father, Son and Spirit will always remain much of a mystery, but a subject that can pass many an hour in debate

Actually my only real difference with Equal Trinitarians is I believe the Father is the one true God and greater than the son, but it seems that it is a hanginig offence to many on these websites to take some of Christ's words literally and believe them
God Bless
Thank you for being a sane voice in an often mad enviroment

Amen. . .it is a hanging offence and has been for centuries! I just don't believe there are any "mysteries" but that any mystery has been revealed through the written word. God bless.

 

[Diadem]

Just to let you know.....Jesus was 100% flesh and blood man when he was born of Mary! He went BACK to being a God, a spirit being, when He returned to Heaven!

.

The scriptures plainly declare that the Lord Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God, as well as the Son of Man. The title"Son of God" is used concerning Him in the New Testament in forty-two or more places. The title "Son of God" belongs to eternity, while the title "Son of Man" belongs specifically to the dimension of time.

 

[Abiding]

tests have show great results have been found for people online
and those with heads crammed full to bursting

 

[mark54]

.

You come closer to being a Trinitarian than you think!!

Amen. . .it is a hanging offence and has been for centuries! I just don't believe there are any "mysteries" but that any mystery has been revealed through the written word. God bless.

I have no problem with the word Trinity, my problem is with the word EQUAL that goes before it for many