The Drinking of Blood

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lesjude

Guest
#1
Can a religious system that teaches that works increase a person's justification before God be considered Christian?

Can a person prepare to receive God's grace by drinking blood and eating flesh?

The Bible states in both the NT and the OT that consuming blood is a sin. Is a ceremony that claims to change wine to blood in actuality an occult ceremony that invites in a demonic presence that brings those that innocently partake in bondage to continued sin?

Is the system designed this way to give the religious organization control over people's lives and finances?
 
D

danschance

Guest
#2
The consuming of the communion elements, the wine and bread, ceremonially becomes a we we remember what Christ did for us on the cross. It is not cannibalism since no human blood or human flesh is eaten and the scriptural mandate to not consume these produces is not broached.

"The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes" (1 Corinthians 11:23-26)
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#3
Can a person prepare to receive God's grace by drinking blood and eating flesh?
lesjude. Listen to Jesus...

"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”


Then, in response to their agitation, rather than say it was only symbolic (as many today claim that it is), he rather reinforces what he said before...

[SUP]53 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. [SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. [SUP]55 [/SUP]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. [SUP]56 [/SUP]Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.


That really got them in a tizzy. Read on...
lesjude said:
The Bible states in both the NT and the OT that consuming blood is a sin.
What a radical then Jesus is, saying what he said. Jews do not eat meat containing blood. Everything has to be kosher, the blood removed. Then stood this Jew before them (Jesus) telling them to eat his flesh and drink his blood, and he meant it quite literally, obviously. They were shocked!

Read:
On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” [SUP]61 [/SUP]Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?"

(well,, does this offend YOU, lesjude? Evidently so.)

[SUP]66 [/SUP]From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Yes, then they abandoned our Lord, and he did not stop them because they understood him quite clearly. He meant what he said.
You call this essential teaching of our Lord "an occult ceremony that invites in a demonic presence".
Are you abandoning him too? Are you persecuting our Lord Jesus Christ?

Then Christ replied...

"You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.[SUP]68 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. [SUP]69 [/SUP]We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Do you want to leave too, lesjude? Have you already left?

lesjude said:
Is a ceremony that claims to change wine to blood in actuality an occult ceremony that invites in a demonic presence that brings those that innocently partake in bondage to continued sin?
Remember, Christ gave this essential teaching of our Christian faith near the very end of his ministry, just before instituting it at the Last Supper, just before he went to the cross. It is extremely important. This final teaching of our Lord is beautiful, and essential. It is the source and summit of our Christian faith. It is heavenly. Yet you see it through your carnal eyes and call it "demonic", and say that it is a stumbling block that leads people into "bondage and continued sin". Be careful what you say, lesjude.

Yes, people loved all the nice miracles, healing the blind, raising a child from the dead, the idea of eternal life, etc.. They flocked to him. He had many many followers up to that point. But then when it came down to the nitty gritty - consuming our Lords flesh and blood, as he instructs us to do - then they abandoned him. They would not listen. It was simply too much for them, and they walked away from our Lord.
Again, our Lord asks; "Do you want to leave too?" Have you already abandoned Him?



"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This IS my body, which is for you; DO THIS in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup IS the new covenant in my blood; DO THIS, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."
Do not doubt Him.

Our Lord gave this instruction solely to his Apostles at the Last Supper. It was only for them to perform for the body of believers. Only the Apostles (the leaders of his Church) and their designated successors can perform this celebration, and we are all called to participate.

John 6:
Read it. Live it.
John 6:41-65 At this the Jews there began to grumble - Bible Gateway
 
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7seven7

Guest
#4
Can it be told us any simpler than that? Our Lord told us EXACTLY and most simply what to do. It's so basic. Why did we all have to complicate it and tear it all apart?
 
Jan 11, 2013
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#5
Can a religious system that teaches that works increase a person's justification before God be considered Christian?

Can a person prepare to receive God's grace by drinking blood and eating flesh?
The above is a sad indictment of much teaching in Christianity today
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
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#6
We are to trust Christ's words and not let our own reason run amok with "this way it cannot be!". Obviously the Lord identify Himself with the elements of the communion. We can either believe it or be offended by it.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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#7
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world(eternal life).”
John6:32&33


Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.[SUP]36 [/SUP]But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

35&36
I am the bread of life. [SUP]49 [/SUP]Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. [SUP]50 [/SUP]But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. [SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.(have eternal life)
48-52

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life
John5:23

I tell you the truth if anyone keeps my word, he shall never see death(have eternal life)
John8:51

So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 828

My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own
John7:16&17

[SUP] [/SUP]For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God,
for God[SUP][k][/SUP] gives the Spirit without limit.

John3:34

When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. [SUP]6 [/SUP]“Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? [SUP]11[/SUP]How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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#8
Can a religious system that teaches that works increase a person's justification before God be considered Christian?

Can a person prepare to receive God's grace by drinking blood and eating flesh?

The Bible states in both the NT and the OT that consuming blood is a sin.
Not so.

The OT proscription against consuming blood was set aside when the law was set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

There is no proscription against consuming blood in the NT.

None of your questions apply.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#9
I kinda think most every responder has entirely missed the purpose of what Jesus said.
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#10
Christ in the Eucharist

Protestant attacks on the Catholic Church often focus on the Eucharist. This demonstrates that opponents of the Church—mainly Evangelicals and Fundamentalists—recognize one of Catholicism’s core doctrines. What’s more, the attacks show that Fundamentalists are not always literalists. This is seen in their interpretation of the key biblical passage, chapter six of John’s Gospel, in which Christ speaks about the sacrament that will be instituted at the Last Supper. This tract examines the last half of that chapter.

John 6:30 begins a colloquy that took place in the synagogue at Capernaum. The Jews asked Jesus what sign he could perform so that they might believe in him. As a challenge, they noted that "our ancestors ate manna in the desert." Could Jesus top that? He told them the real bread from heaven comes from the Father. "Give us this bread always," they said. Jesus replied, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst." At this point the Jews understood him to be speaking metaphorically.

Again and Again

Jesus first repeated what he said, then summarized: "‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" (John 6:51–52).
His listeners were stupefied because now they understood Jesus literally—and correctly. He again repeated his words, but with even greater emphasis, and introduced the statement about drinking his blood: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

No Corrections

Notice that Jesus made no attempt to soften what he said, no attempt to correct "misunderstandings," for there were none. Our Lord’s listeners understood him perfectly well. They no longer thought he was speaking metaphorically. If they had, if they mistook what he said, why no correction?
On other occasions when there was confusion, Christ explained just what he meant (cf. Matt. 16:5–12). Here, where any misunderstanding would be fatal, there was no effort by Jesus to correct. Instead, he repeated himself for greater emphasis.
In John 6:60 we read: "Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’" These were his disciples, people used to his remarkable ways. He warned them not to think carnally, but spiritually: "It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life" (John 6:63; cf. 1 Cor. 2:12–14).
But he knew some did not believe. (It is here, in the rejection of the Eucharist, that Judas fell away; look at John 6:64.) "After this, many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him" (John 6:66).
This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking him for purely doctrinal reasons. If it had all been a misunderstanding, if they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t he call them back and straighten things out? Both the Jews, who were suspicious of him, and his disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with him had he said he was speaking only symbolically.
But he did not correct these protesters. Twelve times he said he was the bread that came down from heaven; four times he said they would have "to eat my flesh and drink my blood." John 6 was an extended promise of what would be instituted at the Last Supper—and it was a promise that could not be more explicit. Or so it would seem to a Catholic. But what do Fundamentalists say?

Merely Figurative?

They say that in John 6 Jesus was not talking about physical food and drink, but about spiritual food and drink. They quote John 6:35: "Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.’" They claim that coming to him is bread, having faith in him is drink. Thus, eating his flesh and blood merely means believing in Christ.
But there is a problem with that interpretation. As Fr. John A. O’Brien explains, "The phrase ‘to eat the flesh and drink the blood,’ when used figuratively among the Jews, as among the Arabs of today, meant to inflict upon a person some serious injury, especially by calumny or by false accusation. To interpret the phrase figuratively then would be to make our Lord promise life everlasting to the culprit for slandering and hating him, which would reduce the whole passage to utter nonsense" (O’Brien, The Faith of Millions, 215). For an example of this use, see Micah 3:3.
Fundamentalist writers who comment on John 6 also assert that one can show Christ was speaking only metaphorically by comparing verses like John 10:9 ("I am the door") and John 15:1 ("I am the true vine"). The problem is that there is not a connection to John 6:35, "I am the bread of life." "I am the door" and "I am the vine" make sense as metaphors because Christ is like a door—we go to heaven through him—and he is also like a vine—we get our spiritual sap through him. But Christ takes John 6:35 far beyond symbolism by saying, "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).
He continues: "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me" (John 6:57). The Greek word used for "eats" (trogon) is very blunt and has the sense of "chewing" or "gnawing." This is not the language of metaphor.

Their Main Argument

For Fundamentalist writers, the scriptural argument is capped by an appeal to John 6:63: "It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." They say this means that eating real flesh is a waste. But does this make sense?
Are we to understand that Christ had just commanded his disciples to eat his flesh, then said their doing so would be pointless? Is that what "the flesh is of no avail" means? "Eat my flesh, but you’ll find it’s a waste of time"—is that what he was saying? Hardly.
The fact is that Christ’s flesh avails much! If it were of no avail, then the Son of God incarnated for no reason, he died for no reason, and he rose from the dead for no reason. Christ’s flesh profits us more than anyone else’s in the world. If it profits us nothing, so that the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ are of no avail, then "your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:17b–18).
In John 6:63 "flesh profits nothing" refers to mankind’s inclination to think using only what their natural human reason would tell them rather than what God would tell them. Thus in John 8:15–16 Jesus tells his opponents: "You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone that judge, but I and he who sent me." So natural human judgment, unaided by God’s grace, is unreliable; but God’s judgment is always true.
And were the disciples to understand the line "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life" as nothing but a circumlocution (and a very clumsy one at that) for "symbolic"? No one can come up with such interpretations unless he first holds to the Fundamentalist position and thinks it necessary to find a rationale, no matter how forced, for evading the Catholic interpretation. In John 6:63 "flesh" does not refer to Christ’s own flesh—the context makes this clear—but to mankind’s inclination to think on a natural, human level. "The words I have spoken to you are spirit" does not mean "What I have just said is symbolic." The word "spirit" is never used that way in the Bible. The line means that what Christ has said will be understood only through faith; only by the power of the Spirit and the drawing of the Father (cf. John 6:37, 44–45, 65).

Paul Confirms This

Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" (1 Cor. 10:16). So when we receive Communion, we actually participate in the body and blood of Christ, not just eat symbols of them. Paul also said, "Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself" (1 Cor. 11:27, 29). "To answer for the body and blood" of someone meant to be guilty of a crime as serious as homicide. How could eating mere bread and wine "unworthily" be so serious? Paul’s comment makes sense only if the bread and wine became the real body and blood of Christ.

What Did the First Christians Say?

Anti-Catholics also claim the early Church took this chapter symbolically. Is that so? Let’s see what some early Christians thought, keeping in mind that we can learn much about how Scripture should be interpreted by examining the writings of early Christians.
Ignatius of Antioch, who had been a disciple of the apostle John and who wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans about A.D. 110, said, referring to "those who hold heterodox opinions," that "they abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again" (6:2, 7:1).
Forty years later, Justin Martyr, wrote, "Not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished, . . . is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66:1–20).
Origen, in a homily written about A.D. 244, attested to belief in the Real Presence. "I wish to admonish you with examples from your religion. You are accustomed to take part in the divine mysteries, so you know how, when you have received the Body of the Lord, you reverently exercise every care lest a particle of it fall and lest anything of the consecrated gift perish. You account yourselves guilty, and rightly do you so believe, if any of it be lost through negligence" (Homilies on Exodus 13:3).
Cyril of Jerusalem, in a catechetical lecture presented in the mid-300s, said, "Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that, for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy
of the body and blood of Christ" (Catechetical Discourses: Mystagogic 4:22:9).
In a fifth-century homily, Theodore of Mopsuestia seemed to be speaking to today’s Evangelicals and Fundamentalists: "When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood,’ for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements], after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit, not according to their nature, but to receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord" (Catechetical Homilies 5:1).

Unanimous Testimony

Whatever else might be said, the early Church took John 6 literally. In fact, there is no record from the early centuries that implies Christians doubted the constant Catholic interpretation. There exists no document in which the literal interpretation is opposed and only the metaphorical accepted.
Why do Fundamentalists and Evangelicals reject the plain, literal interpretation of John 6? For them, Catholic sacraments are out because they imply a spiritual reality—grace—being conveyed by means of matter. This seems to them to be a violation of the divine plan. For many Protestants, matter is not to be used, but overcome or avoided.
One suspects, had they been asked by the Creator their opinion of how to bring about mankind’s salvation, Fundamentalists would have advised him to adopt a different approach. How much cleaner things would be if spirit never dirtied itself with matter! But God approves of matter—he approves of it because he created it—and he approves of it so much that he comes to us under the appearances of bread and wine, just as he does in the physical form of the Incarnate Christ.

Christ in the Eucharist
 
Jan 11, 2013
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#11
When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Andhe said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before Isuffer. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he took bread, gave thanks and brokeit, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this inremembrance of me.”

[SUP]20 [/SUP]In the same way, after the supper he tookthe cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Luke22:19&20

Jesus did not say that to take communion (the bread and wine as symbols of his blood and body) would bring eternal life, but that the disciples should do this, in rembrance of him.

Paul confirms this:

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus,on the night he was betrayed, took bread, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, after supper he took thecup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me
1Cor11:23-25

Whereas in John 6 Jesus is speaking of a person living forever if they eat the bread that came from Heaven, two different things
 
C

crosspreacher

Guest
#12
Are you talking about material blood and flesh or spiritual ?
 
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
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#13
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. [SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world(eternal life).”
John6:32&33


Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.[SUP]36 [/SUP]But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

35&36
I am the bread of life. [SUP]49 [/SUP]Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. [SUP]50 [/SUP]But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. [SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.(have eternal life)
48-52

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life
John5:23

I tell you the truth if anyone keeps my word, he shall never see death(have eternal life)
John8:51

So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 828

My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own
John7:16&17

For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God,
for God[SUP][k][/SUP] gives the Spirit without limit.

John3:34

When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. [SUP]6 [/SUP]“Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? [SUP]11[/SUP]How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

I am speaking of the difference between the above and below


When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Andhe said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before Isuffer. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he took bread, gave thanks and brokeit, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this inremembrance of me.”

[SUP]20 [/SUP]In the same way, after the supper he tookthe cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Luke22:19&20

Jesus did not say that to take communion (the bread and wine as symbols of his blood and body) would bring eternal life, but that the disciples should do this, in rembrance of him.

Paul confirms this:

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus,on the night he was betrayed, took bread, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, after supper he took thecup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me
1Cor11:23-25

Whereas in John 6 Jesus is speaking of a person living forever if they eat the bread that came from Heaven, two different things
 
7

7seven7

Guest
#14

Jesus did not say that to take communion (the bread and wine as symbols of his blood and body) would bring eternal life, but that the disciples should do this, in rembrance of him.
the bread and wine are not "symbols" of His body and blood. As Catholics we believe that before the consecration, the bread is just bread, being the substance of bread. After consecration though, it becomes the accidence of bread and the substance of the Body of Christ. For those who don't understand, substance = what it is, and, accidence = what it looks like. If you think this is absurd because, how can it be the Body of Christ when we are plainly holding a piece of bread, then you're acting on a scientific evaluation, which is fine. But I act on faith, and i truly believe that when i recieve the eucharist, i am recieving the Body of Christ, just like He wanted me to.
Characteristics of faith: Grace (a gift from God)
Human act
Understanding
Certainty
Jesus wasn't mucking around. He started His church headed by St. Peter, followed by his successors. I'm blessed to be back Home. I hope all my lost brothers and sisters see what I saw and come Home too. God bless.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#15
Christ in the Eucharist
Maynard,

I have opened a thread which examines the Eucharist in light of the Scriptures, and which I think you will appreciate.

"Biblical Analysis of the Lord's Supper"
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#16
although i tend towards the belief that the bread and wine in communion are jesus' real body and blood...i don't believe that it happens through the actions of a priest or ceremony...

instead the change is made through jesus' own powerful word...which he said once and for all almost 2,000 years ago...
 
Jan 11, 2013
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#17
the bread and wine are not "symbols" of His body and blood. As Catholics we believe that before the consecration, the bread is just bread, being the substance of bread. After consecration though, it becomes the accidence of bread and the substance of the Body of Christ. For those who don't understand, substance = what it is, and, accidence = what it looks like. If you think this is absurd because, how can it be the Body of Christ when we are plainly holding a piece of bread, then you're acting on a scientific evaluation, which is fine. But I act on faith, and i truly believe that when i recieve the eucharist, i am recieving the Body of Christ, just like He wanted me to.
Characteristics of faith: Grace (a gift from God)
Human act
Understanding
Certainty
Jesus wasn't mucking around. He started His church headed by St. Peter, followed by his successors. I'm blessed to be back Home. I hope all my lost brothers and sisters see what I saw and come Home too. God bless.
In my own mind, I am convinced that what matters to God is that a person partakes of communion in heartfelt gratitude for what Christ did for them at Calvary. That's it
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#18
I kinda think most every responder has entirely missed the purpose of what Jesus said.
why do you say that?





... I'm still waiting for someone to bring up VAMPIRES :p......
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#19
In my own mind, I am convinced that what matters to God is that a person partakes of communion in heartfelt gratitude for what Christ did for them at Calvary. That's it.
Be careful.

Paul warns those who partake-yet do not believe-in the Real Presence of our Lord in the Eucharist. That when they eat and drink of it with such disbelief as yours that they are sinning against the very body and blood of Christ. A sacrilege of the highest order.

"So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves."
1 Cor 11:27-29

Christ makes himself truly present - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity - in the Eucharist of the Holy Mass of His Church.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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#20
Be careful.

Paul warns those who partake-yet do not believe-in the Real Presence of our Lord in the Eucharist. That when they eat and drink of it with such disbelief as yours that they are sinning against the very body and blood of Christ. A sacrilege of the highest order.

"So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves."
1 Cor 11:27-29

Christ makes himself truly present - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity - in the Eucharist of the Holy Mass of His Church.
Thank you for your concern, but I do take seriously at the communion table what Christ did for me on the cross and recoginise he suffered and died for me.