Reformed Theology - Penal Substitution and the Imputed Righteousness of Christ

[SarahM777]

David knew very well what he was doing. Sure he may have suppressed the truth in unrighteousness and thus was in a darkened state of ignorance, but this state was his own doing.

When people engage in sin they push the truth from their mind in order to engage the sin.

It was purely by the grace of God that Nathan gave David a wake-up call.

But do you understand the whole message that is in there? Do you get that David as God calls him,the man after God's own heart,(A child of God),should have been stoned for the adultery,put to death of the murder of Uriah,cut off from God's people because David did so during Bathsheba's time of purification due to her time of uncleanness,he also coveted Bathsheba,he stole her from Uriah,and he lied during this time to cover up what he had done. David by all rights should have died. But do you get the point that God in His great mercy DID NOT strike David dead even while he was in the midst of this? Do you get the point that David was in rebellion and God DID NOT let him go? (Not that we should do like David did it's playing with fire and not a good place to be) No where can anyone find a place where God says that David is NOT His child.

Did David get slapped upside the head? Of course he did.

2 Samuel 12

12 The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, “There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, [SUP]3 [/SUP]but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this must die![SUP]6 [/SUP]He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.”
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. [SUP]8 [/SUP]I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight. [SUP]12 [/SUP]You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.’”
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.[SUP]14 [/SUP]But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[SUP][a][/SUP] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

No where in there does it say that the Lord let David get away it. Which should be a warning against rebellion. David paid a high price for it for the REST of his life. But no where in there does the Lord ever say that David is not His. Again another warning against rebellion. God does not treat rebellion lightly from His children. It is much to high a price to pay for it.

 

[Skinski7]

Comments in Red.

You know that sin is transgressdion of the law.

Is it acting in love to demand of others what you do not even attempt to do yourself? I have forsaken my sins have you?You fall back on nonsensical rhetoric and IGNORE the Bible.

No, I guess yo are going to hell then Skinsky(by your rules)

Is it acting in love to crush people with impossible demands you yourself do not even try and keep? Impossible demands? When Jesus commanded "Go and Sin No More" it was an impossible demand?

When Paul writes...


Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

...it's an impossible demand?

Nope, I guess you are going to hell then Skinski

You say the Christyian does not have to sdo any good work in helping others, just crucify their flesh and make of themself a pure heart. Outrageous Skinsky, ands a lie, here lets quote the literal scripture, you are condemned again, so you are going to hell(according to your rules) I say a Christian does not have to do any good work in helping other?????? You are lying! Quote me where I say any such thing. I have said that "helping others" APART from love will not avail anyone. I have said that we die to self in order to yield to God. The natural result of a purified heart will acts of charity towards others. A good tree will bear the fruit of righteousness.

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James1:27 Yes PURE. PURITY. Jesus came to redeem us from ALL iniquity and PURIFY a peculiar people. Do you know what people who have been redeemed from all iniquity and made pure do? They DO THE RIGHT THING. They don't walk in the flesh gratifying their carnal desires anymore for they have been crucified with Christ.

You decry the cessation of sin as related to salvation and yet in that very verse you quote it says "to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

So Skinski you have no pure asnd faultlerss religion, do you? So by your own standards you are guilty, you must go to hell

Hve byou ever fasted Skinski and told anyone you fasted, or wanted in your cheart for anyone to know you fasted?

If so you are a hypocrite, You so desperately want to accuse me of some sin in order to uphold your doctrine of ongoing sin. Practically everything you write is a defence of being able to sin and not surely die. Why don't you defend righteousness?

If someone who maligned you, lied about you and poersecuted you and asked you to lend to them, would you do it with only love in your heart for the person who asked of you? And would you never expect anytghing back from them? If you can't answerf that according to Christ'sv teaching, you are a sinner Skinski, you must go to hell. You completely deny the possiblity of heart purity. In your mind it is simply impossible to be righteous. Even though the Bible speaks of being redeemed of all iniquity and made pure you don't believe it.
Have you ever called anyone a fool Skinski? Yes I have, have you ever studied the context of what Jesus is teaching there?
If so you sinned deliberaqtely, you're going to hell

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Do you not invite friends and family home for a measl but raqther the poor lame and blind? The Pharisees did the same thing with Jesus. They tried to accuse Him of some sin in order to deny his teaching.
If not you are a sinner Skinski, you are ignoring Christ's teachings, you are ghoing to hell

I'll quote siomne more scripture once you have responded to the above

I am going to do what you do now. Lets see if you pass the test according to the literal scriptures, or whether byou arte goling to hell too along with everyone who goes to mainstream churches(that is what you beliecvew is it not?) All these questions in order to defend your contention that one does not have to forsake wickedness.

Don't try for cheap grace Skinski. IE If I don't watch porno movies, get drunk, sleep with someone smoke, or swear I am OK. You are not Skinsky, nowhere near. I have never claimed that someone who does not do those things is ok. What I have said is that someone who DOES DO THEM is not redeemed. ALL INIQUITY must cease before God will forigve you. THe ROOT OF INIQUITY in the heart must be purged through repentance. The simple stopping of some outward behaviour won't save anyone, one has to repent and be converted.

 

[mark54]

Comments in Red.



Will respond later, have to go out

 

[SarahM777]

Skinski,

I may be wrong so please don't take it the wrong way as this is what I think you may be implying (I could be wrong on this so.. please bear with me) To me it sounds like you are implying that you have reached the point where your righteousness has surpassed,exceeded,is greater then,higher and better than that of the Pharisees. Jesus did say if it didn't one can NOT enter the kingdom of heaven. So are you implying that you obey the law,with every i dotted every t crossed,you have memorized the entire Torah,and the law and the prophets to know what the requirements of the law and the prophets are,upside down,inside out and backwards. (The Pharisees did) They knew the entire letter of the law and did it. (They were missing the heart of it though)

This is what I am hearing and I may be wrong. If so I do apologize. If so would be kind enough to explain. Thanks

 

[mark54]

Comments in Red.

OK
Can we sum up that you are saying all sin must cease prior to God acceptingsomeone and I am trying to be Phariseeical with you by pointing to individualcommands of Christ and suggesting you do not follow them, in order to cover upmy ongoing rebellion. And you have not stated we do not have to do good worksas a Christian
Just to keep this as short as possible


All I am doing is going your hard and fast rules in thius post
You often quote the following:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left(Heb10:26)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning,because he has been born of God.(1John3:9)

And you many times quote scripture to saywe must keep Christ’s commandments

Now I want to stress again in the following I am simply going by your rules, but before I get to that, can I ask you once again

You continuously bring up the subject ofwatching pornography and you are adamant this must stop before God will accepta person, Do you therefore believe all masturbation must cease before God willaccept someone? I assume you must as obviously a person could cease watchingporn but still be gratified in the flesh through masturbation through theimages previously stored in their mind. Yet three times now I have asked youthis question and thus far you have not responded to it. Could you do so now,thank you

OK so you are insistent Christ’s commandmentsare kept and a Christian cannot go on sinning. But you see, you do not yourselfstrive to obey each and every commandment of Christ, you are selective, that isundoubtedly true. By what right can you pick and choose which of Christ’scommandments you follow/strive to obey, and which ones you do not strive toobey?
I cannot find such a belief anywhere in thebible. Can you explain to me how you reason you can pick and choose whichcommandments of Christ you choose to follow and which yopu choose to ignore?Only you quote the literal word inflexible, so why does this not also apply toyou/
We know the definition of sion,transgression of the law. Yet you, do not even strive to obey all of Christ’slaw(literal commands as you see it) So each and every day of your life youwilfully sin by refusing to follow many of Christ’s literal commandments. That’sa fact Skinsky, so the literal letter according to how you apply it to otherscondemns you.
And as you quote Heb10:26 what sacrifice isleft to cover your sin, for you know the commands of Christ but choose of yourown free will not to follow them all. Now you can tell me I am beingPhariseeical but all I am doing is applying your own preaching to you.
Why should your preaching apply to bothersbut not yourself? As non one born of Godcan sin(you take that literally) Why are you sinning each and every day bydeliberately ignoring some of Christ’s commands?
Now you told me, and this is the truth thework God requires of us is simply to make of ourselves as pure heart and putthe flesh to death, I assure you that is what you wrote. That is so wrongSkinsky, but in reality it is what people like you believe, as I know. Butthere is no heart purity that way
So what work are you doing for God apartfrom coming on the internet, laying huge amounts of scripture before others incondemnation of them and their churches, scriptural demands you do not inreality even try and keep yourself

It is sheer hypocrisy, according to whatyou write.; And the trouble with your Gospel of make yourself acceptable to Godby your own effort is, it is Phariseeical, and this proves it:


Then Jesus said to the crowds and to hisdisciples: [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Theteachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.[SUP]3[/SUP]So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do whatthey do, for they do not practice what they preach.[SUP]4 [/SUP]They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’sshoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.


The above is exactly what you are guilty of, as the Pharisees of Jesus day were guilty of the same

 

[Skinski7]

Skinski,

I may be wrong so please don't take it the wrong way as this is what I think you may be implying (I could be wrong on this so.. please bear with me) To me it sounds like you are implying that you have reached the point where your righteousness has surpassed,exceeded,is greater then,higher and better than that of the Pharisees. Jesus did say if it didn't one can NOT enter the kingdom of heaven. So are you implying that you obey the law,with every i dotted every t crossed,you have memorized the entire Torah,and the law and the prophets to know what the requirements of the law and the prophets are,upside down,inside out and backwards. (The Pharisees did) They knew the entire letter of the law and did it. (They were missing the heart of it though)

This is what I am hearing and I may be wrong. If so I do apologize. If so would be kind enough to explain. Thanks

Righteousness exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisess is simply having a faith that works by love and thus we walk in the Spirit yielding to God from the heart.

Look at the context of that passage...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abolish it. The law still stands. Yet what does it mean to fulfill? It means to WALK IN LOVE. Love fulfills the law (Gal 5:14). We are not in bondage to the LETTER (2Cor 3:6), we have liberty to walk in the Spirit (Gal 5:13) by which we too fulfill the law (Rom 8:2-4).
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. The law stands yet the law is for the sinner. Those who are in Christ are not under the letter of the law because they walk in the Spirit by a faith that works by love. Love is fulfilling the law hence there is no law against "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance"
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisees sought their righteousness in the letter and totally negated the Spirit. This is why righteousness is not of the law but rather it is of faith, a faith that works by love.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees when he said...

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Modern professing Christianity is under the same error of the Pharisees. Instead of cloaking their inward impurity with the law of Moses they cloak it with doctrinal fallacies. Billy Graham when preaching would even say, "I have never been righteous all my life" and then would say that God "clothes me in His righteousness, so that when God looks at me He doesn't see the old, evil heart of Billy Graham, He sees Jesus." Heart purity is denied and replaced with a forensic cloak and people actually believe it hook, line and sinker and will defend the fallacy until they stand before God one day and then with absolute horror realise they were in fact deceived.

After Jesus said this...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

...he went on to speak about heart purity by teaching that adultery in the heart is still adultery, hate in the heart is the same as murder. Jesus was teaching that it is what is WITHIN a man that counts, not the outward "appearance."

Jesus called for moral perfection...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is faith that purifies the heart.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

HEART PURITY. Jesus came to PURIFY people.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Yet modern theology totally denies it. Those beholden to modern theology will viciously attack anyone who preaches true righteousness. So many hate the truth and yet proclaim to follow Jesus.

Jesus said we cannot serve two masters, that if the eye is single the whole body shall be full of light. What did He mean by that? He means that we have to walk by a faith that is totally committed to God. God wants our WHOLE-HEARTED obedience. We are to be LIVING SACRIFICES for that is our REASONABLE service. God is our Creator and to yield to Him completely is not unreasonable.

Those who are rejected in Matthew 7 are those who did not do the will of the Father. They refused to submit themselves to His will, instead they walked in their own will which was rooted in iniquity.

Satan wants to deceive people that you can sin against God and not be held accountable for it. It is not the case. God is willing to forgive yes, but God is not willing to forgive those who remain rebels. The rebellion has to stop. God is the author of salvation of those who obey Him. It is what the Bible says. Eternal life is to those who patiently continue in doing good. Without holiness one will not see God. Holiness is a result of obedience to righteousness.

The Bible is so clear everywhere on these things. It is the theme of the Bible from start to finish. Yet the wolves isolate a few select passages to deceive the simple. Who are the simple? It is those who are not diligent. The prudent on the other hand forsee the evil and hide themselves, in other words they prepare themselves. That is what Solomon taught and he was a very wise man.

The law of Moses is not for the Christian in an outward sense (the law is actually a mere shadow of love). It was given to national Israel in order to maintain a standard of righteousness for that nation. The law was not given for the righteous but for sinners. A righteous person does not need the law because their nature is a law unto itself. They are governed by their own conscience by which they are submitted to the righteousness of God. In other words the righteous walk by faith and their faith works by love.

There is no moral transgression in righteousness. This is why true Christian's do not willfully sin against their knowledge of the truth. Those that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires and thus walk uprightly in submission to the Spirit of God whereby they put to death the deeds of the flesh. They keep their bodies in subjection to the will of God. That is true Christianity, that is truly abiding in Christ.

False Christianity denies that and teaches an abstract state of righteousness of an identity with Christ while practically one is still defiled and sinful.

 

[Skinski7]

Comments in Red.

OK
Can we sum up that you are saying all sin must cease prior to God acceptingsomeone and I am trying to be Phariseeical with you by pointing to individualcommands of Christ and suggesting you do not follow them, in order to cover upmy ongoing rebellion. And you have not stated we do not have to do good worksas a Christian
Just to keep this as short as possible


All I am doing is going your hard and fast rules in thius post
You often quote the following:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left(Heb10:26)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning,because he has been born of God.(1John3:9)

And you many times quote scripture to saywe must keep Christ’s commandments

Now I want to stress again in the following I am simply going by your rules, but before I get to that, can I ask you once again

You continuously bring up the subject ofwatching pornography and you are adamant this must stop before God will accepta person, Do you therefore believe all masturbation must cease before God willaccept someone? I assume you must as obviously a person could cease watchingporn but still be gratified in the flesh through masturbation through theimages previously stored in their mind. Yet three times now I have asked youthis question and thus far you have not responded to it. Could you do so now,thank you

OK so you are insistent Christ’s commandmentsare kept and a Christian cannot go on sinning. But you see, you do not yourselfstrive to obey each and every commandment of Christ, you are selective, that isundoubtedly true. By what right can you pick and choose which of Christ’scommandments you follow/strive to obey, and which ones you do not strive toobey?
I cannot find such a belief anywhere in thebible. Can you explain to me how you reason you can pick and choose whichcommandments of Christ you choose to follow and which yopu choose to ignore?Only you quote the literal word inflexible, so why does this not also apply toyou/
We know the definition of sion,transgression of the law. Yet you, do not even strive to obey all of Christ’slaw(literal commands as you see it) So each and every day of your life youwilfully sin by refusing to follow many of Christ’s literal commandments. That’sa fact Skinsky, so the literal letter according to how you apply it to otherscondemns you.
And as you quote Heb10:26 what sacrifice isleft to cover your sin, for you know the commands of Christ but choose of yourown free will not to follow them all. Now you can tell me I am beingPhariseeical but all I am doing is applying your own preaching to you.
Why should your preaching apply to bothersbut not yourself? As non one born of Godcan sin(you take that literally) Why are you sinning each and every day bydeliberately ignoring some of Christ’s commands?
Now you told me, and this is the truth thework God requires of us is simply to make of ourselves as pure heart and putthe flesh to death, I assure you that is what you wrote. That is so wrongSkinsky, but in reality it is what people like you believe, as I know. Butthere is no heart purity that way
So what work are you doing for God apartfrom coming on the internet, laying huge amounts of scripture before others incondemnation of them and their churches, scriptural demands you do not inreality even try and keep yourself

It is sheer hypocrisy, according to whatyou write.; And the trouble with your Gospel of make yourself acceptable to Godby your own effort is, it is Phariseeical, and this proves it:


Then Jesus said to the crowds and to hisdisciples: [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Theteachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.[SUP]3[/SUP]So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do whatthey do, for they do not practice what they preach.[SUP]4 [/SUP]They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’sshoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.


The above is exactly what you are guilty of, as the Pharisees of Jesus day were guilty of the same

Mark,


The sin stops. You can dance around it as much as you like and attempt to accuse me of all manner of evil but the Bible means exactly what it says.

Jesus said "go and sin no more" and He meant exactly that.

Those that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires and that means that the passions and desires are crucified. A sin of death is in yielding to the passions and desires of the flesh in disobedience to God. We are to love God and love our neighbour wholeheartedly. You don't do that by continuing in sin.

The Pharisees were guilty of seeking righteousness in the literal letter of the law apart from a faith that works by love. Thus they upheld "touch not , taste not" to the expense of everything else.

For you to equate legalism with the cessation of sin is pure fallacy.

Pure is pure.

 

[mark54]

Mark,


The sin stops. You can dance around it as much as you like and attempt to accuse me of all manner of evil but the Bible means exactly what it says.

Jesus said "go and sin no more" and He meant exactly that.

Those that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires and that means that the passions and desires are crucified. A sin of death is in yielding to the passions and desires of the flesh in disobedience to God. We are to love God and love our neighbour wholeheartedly. You don't do that by continuing in sin.

Pure is pure.

So you did not address the points in my post, and for some reaon seem reluctant to state as to whether masturbation must cease prior to God accepting a person

 

[Skinski7]

Sarah.... David was not forgiven in the midst of his sin. he had to repent like everyone else.

Satan wants people to believe that they can be engaged in wickedness and forgiven at the same time. It is the lie of "ye shall surely not die." Have you been beguiled by the serpent?

 

[Skinski7]

So you did not address the points, and for some reaon seem reluctant to state as to whether masturbation must cease prior to God accepting a person

Straining at gnats. You still ignore the specific scriptures I allude to.

Is masturbation a fruit of one who has crucified the flesh with the passions and desires?

Is smoking? Is alcoholism? Is viewing porn? Is gluttony? Is telling lies? Is stealing?

 

[mark54]

Straining at gnats. You still ignore the specific scriptures I allude to.

Is masturbation a fruit of one who has crucified the flesh with the passions and desires?

Is smoking? Is alcoholism? Is viewing porn? Is gluttony? Is telling lies? Is stealing?

Nope, by your own hard and fast rules you condemn yourself. And I note you skirt round forthrightly replying to my question, however, when it comes to actuially watching porn you have no reticence whatsoever

 

[Ariel82]

Christians should strive against Sin. amen. But it is a FRUIT of walking with the HOLY SPIRIT not a prequisite for becoming a child of GOD. Have faith in JESUS Righteousness and His redemptive work on the CROSS, not in your own filthy rags of supposed righteousness.

Hebrews 12

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loves He chastens,And scourges every son whom He receives.”[SUP][a][/SUP]


[SUP]7 [/SUP]If[SUP][b][/SUP] you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? [SUP]8 [/SUP]But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? [SUP]10 [/SUP]For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Notice that GOD does the cleansing and scourging not you?

You just have to submit to the bath.

I'm out.

 

[Ariel82]

Sarah.... David was not forgiven in the midst of his sin. he had to repent like everyone else.

you mean he stopped sleeping with Beersheba?

wonder where Solomon came from....

or do you mean that after MURDERING her husband it was no longer a sin to bed her?

therefore he couldn't sin even if he wanted to.

your logic and example are somewhat lacking.

 

[mark54]

Basically Skinski's Gospel is uphold the law in your own strength, then God will accept you

That is certainly not Paul's Gospel

 

[tribesman]

Christians should strive against Sin. amen. But it is a FRUIT of walking with the HOLY SPIRIT not a prequisite for becoming a child of GOD.

Exactly. And this is the only way to be motivated to conquer sin.

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah.... David was not forgiven in the midst of his sin. he had to repent like everyone else.

Satan wants people to believe that they can be engaged in wickedness and forgiven at the same time. It is the lie of "ye shall surely not die." Have you been beguiled by the serpent?

That's not what I said reread it. What I said was that God showed mercy in that God did NOT strike David dead while he was doing what he did.

 

[Skinski7]

Basically Skinski's Gospel is uphold the law in your own strength, then God will accept you

That is certainly not Paul's Gospel

Why do you lie?

Uphold the law in your own strength? Quote me please.

I understand you disagreeing with me but don't lie about my position.

Our strength to overcome is in Jesus Christ. Hence victory is in submission to God not in our own strength. One cannot submit to God unless they forsake "not submitting." Thus the "rebellion" or "not-submitting" ceases in order that one may turn.

 

[Skinski7]

you mean he stopped sleeping with Beersheba?

wonder where Solomon came from....

or do you mean that after MURDERING her husband it was no longer a sin to bed her?

therefore he couldn't sin even if he wanted to.

your logic and example are somewhat lacking.

Her husband was dead and David married her. He was no longer committing adultery.

What are you attempting to do? You are trying to imply that David was in an ongoing state of adultery in order to use that as an excuse that other people can be in an ongoing state of adultery/fornication etc. right?

You dig through the Bible seeking to justify ongoing sin. When the Bible is plain...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


What do you do with Isa 55:7 and the other passages which say the same thing? I cannot figure it out. Do you push it to the back of your mind and not think about it? Or do you think it applies to someone else? Or is it a false statement in your mind? I would really be interested in how your mind works in regards to these things.

 

[Abiding]

Her husband was dead and David married her. He was no longer committing adultery.

What are you attempting to do? You are trying to imply that David was in an ongoing state of adultery in order to use that as an excuse that other people can be in an ongoing state of adultery/fornication etc. right?

You dig through the Bible seeking to justify ongoing sin. When the Bible is plain...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


What do you do with Isa 55:7 and the other passages which say the same thing? I cannot figure it out. Do you push it to the back of your mind and not think about it? Or do you think it applies to someone else? Or is it a false statement in your mind? I would really be interested in how your mind works in regards to these things.

So i can go kill the coffeservers husband...then i get to marry her and its not adultry?
Just as long as i dont do that everyday?
JK

 

[mark54]

Why do you lie?

Uphold the law in your own strength? Quote me please.

I understand you disagreeing with me but don't lie about my position.
QUOTE]

What? You accuse me of lying???

You say God will not accept us until the sin has ceased
Sin is transgression of the law

Until God has accepted us the Holy Spirit DOES NOT dwell in us
Therefore you preach we cease the sin before God will accept us, and therefore we cease the sin without the Spirit dwelling in us
Therefore we must uphold the law in our own strength before God will accept us

That is the truth, of the Gospel you preach
Try and twist it if you wish, but that is nevertheless the truth