What is the Messianic Kingdom?

[Abiding]

Yeah they better. And guess what? Scripture says this is what will happen.. (then ALL isreal will be saved)

And also what lev 26 says must happen before God will remember his promise and covenant with their fathers.

but we have been over this like 100 times now..

Yes all Israel will be saved, present tense. Meaning all throughout church history they will be getting saved.
I think Pauls explaination was not about the far future and he inserted "at this present time." in what he was
explaining.

 

[Abiding]

again, you have issues.

the ot was in shadows when it ocncerned Christ

God giving a peace of land to a people as an unconditional covenant has nothing to do with Christ, nor does it even symbolise Christ, it was just a gift given to the people of Isreal.

God gave you a gift to.. do you believe he will fulfill that gift even if you do not deserve it?? or will he take it away? forever?

Is God God that gives people things, Says it is their forever. then takes them back? If he is. I better be scared. because what is keeping him from taking his unconditional gift from me?

Sorry cant agree. Everything was a type and shadow.....everything!
I doubt unless you got silly you could find me anything in the Oldtestament
that had to do with Israel that wasnt a type of the heavenly reality, or the church.

Furthermore you could start in Genesis 1:1

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes all Israel will be saved, present tense. Meaning all throughout church history they will be getting saved.
I think Pauls explaination was not about the far future and he inserted "at this present time." in what he was
explaining.

well I can't agree. Paul said at a time, all of them would be saved.. when? when the age of the genitle has been completed. And he did not say all people who would be saved would then be saved, He said gentiles should be be proud in their calling,, why? because some time soon, All isreal would be saved.

So why would I want to be puffed up think I made it.. and God is done with Isreal? when paul is warning me of doing this very same thing

anything else is just an idea or belief, which I can not hold to.

this is why we can not agree brother, we see it two different ways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry cant agree. Everything was a type and shadow.....everything!
I doubt unless you got silly you could find me anything in the Oldtestament
that had to do with Israel that wasnt a type of the heavenly reality, or the church.

Furthermore you could start in Genesis 1:1

well sorry, I can't agree.

The mosaic law was not a gift. it was a command which was a shadow

the Arronic priesthood was not a gift. it too was a sign

the temple was not a gift.. it was a sign also

all the shadows were commands of God. (do this) non of them were gifts.

the land was a gift.. much like your gift God gave you.,

again, If God renegs on his gift to them. what is stopping him from reneging on his gift to us..

 

[Elin]

if prophesy is not literal, it is useless in its meaning

And again,

"Houston, we have a problem."

To name a few, the prophecies in:

Da 9:24 about seven weeks is not literal.

Mt 2:18 about Rachael and the slaugher of the infants in Jesus' childhood is not literal.

Ac 4:11 about Jesus being a stone and a capstone is not literal.

Ac 15:16 about rebuilding David's tent is not literal.

Ro 9:33 about Jesus being a stone and a rock is not literal.

Ro 11:8 about eyes and ears is not literal.

Gal 4:27 about exiled Jerusalem is not literal.

Rev 4:5 about seven lamps is not literal.

Rev 9:7-9 about the locusts is not literal.

Rev 9:17-19 about the horses is not literal.

Most prophecy is not literal, but given in riddles.

 

[Abiding]

well sorry, I can't agree.

The mosaic law was not a gift. it was a command which was a shadow

the Arronic priesthood was not a gift. it too was a sign

the temple was not a gift.. it was a sign also

all the shadows were commands of God. (do this) non of them were gifts.

the land was a gift.. much like your gift God gave you.,

again, If God renegs on his gift to them. what is stopping him from reneging on his gift to us..

sticking the word gift in there, ha your so clever i think you
fooled yourself. Im cracking up.

 

[Abiding]

EG when Jesus comes back will He be a bolt of lightening, or will He be a flaming fire with wings,
or will He be coming in the clouds? Or will He be wearing a vesture dipped in blood with a sword in His mouth
wiping everyone out? etc etc

certainly that is all literal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And again,

"Houston, we have a problem."

To name a few, the prophecies in:

Da 9:24 about seven weeks is not literal. They are literal who said they were not?

Mt 2:18 about Rachael and the slaugher of the infants in Jesus' childhood is not literal. Literal. All kids under age of two were killed. Everey mother was wailing at the loss of her child..

Ac 4:11 about Jesus being a stone and a capstone is not literal. not prophesy, but a statement of fact using allegorical terms..

Ac 15:16 about rebuilding David's tent is not literal. lol.. ok.. This was used to show even the prophets spoke of gentiles knowing God.. this is not saying this was fulfilled.. but ok.

Ro 9:33 about Jesus being a stone and a rock is not literal. Jesus was a stumbling stone, and a rock of offense, it is why they crucified him. this is literal..

Ro 11:8 about eyes and ears is not literal. Literal. are you joking? they had eyes which saw, but did not see, they had ears that heard but did not hear.

enough of this nonsense. Can you show me 1 prophesy before christ, which was fulfilled which was not literal?? just 1??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

sticking the word gift in there, ha your so clever i think you
fooled yourself. Im cracking up.

what is a gift? something freely given, and not earned.

Did God give them the land or not?? and your saying this was not a gift?

oh my friend, you are scaring me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG when Jesus comes back will He be a bolt of lightening, or will He be a flaming fire with wings,
or will He be coming in the clouds? Or will He be wearing a vesture dipped in blood with a sword in His mouth
wiping everyone out? etc etc

certainly that is all literal.

Will he come back?? Was rome an iron leg? Or did the iron leg show us the type of kingdom rome would be?

again your scaring me, He used figurative language to show literal things did he not?? Did the events those things represented literally happen or not??

He did not use figurative languge to show figurative things,, everything he said would happen DID HAPPEN. did they not?

 

[Elin]

lol.. Ok

God said the 4th kingdom would be the most powerful of the previous 4. It would crush and shatter the previous 4 kingdoms..

Then he said another kingdom would be divided.

Sorry, it is not my interpretaion., it is what daniel said. Ronme was not devided when it conquired greece. and took even more land than greece. it was not divided when Christ was crucified, It was not divided when it destroyed the city of jerusalem. It had one ceasar. and according to rome, HE WAS GOD..

What part of the following do you not understand?

"Finally (i.e., this is the last one, no more earthly kingdoms in the statue) there will b a fourth kingdom. . .it will crush and break all the others (the other three).

In the time of those (four) kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom (kingdom #5), which is the rock that strikes the statue of four kingdoms. . .It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever."

The rock that crushed the statue of the four kingdoms was Christ, the same rock that accompanied them in the desert and from which they drank, which was Christ (1Co 1:4).

The rock which is the fifth kingdom is the eternal Messianic kingdom.

The fifth kingdom is built on the crushed ruins of the statue of the four kingdoms.
The fifth kingdom fills (extends over) the whole earth. and ultimately over a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21:1).

There is no future temporal Messianic kingdom.

Your problem is with Daniel's interpretation of the statue. Take it up with him.

 

[Elin]

wow. and this is your argument?

you ask why God did not give it to them,

I ask no such thing.

Take it up with Hebrews.

 

[Elin]

lol.. whatever..

You have not proven a thing..

Addressed here.

 

[Bookends]

EG said,
"Isreal was SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GENTILES THE GOSPEL. they FAILED. that is why God did what he did to them./.
because they thought what God gave to them, to give to the world. was for them only"

Elin said,
"Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles? "

I think the OT makes this claim, but it kinda worked in reverse, they were to be a light to the world and attract convertss and the new converts brought into Jewish culture and Laws...I can try to find the passages if you like (may take a few days).

I would appreciate that.

Thanks!

I wanted to provide context to my response here. I think I misunderstand what EG was saying and what Elin was asking. Therefore my response may not apply to the original question. Elin, if you are looking for me to find a specific mandate for the nation of ancient Israel to spread the gospel, I don't think there is one. But I think one among many aspects of Israel's creation was for God to have a separate people in where His Glory would be demonstrated to the world (nations surrounding the land, the region). They were also commanded to accept the foreigner treat the foreigner without partiality, they where to be assimilated into the culture, which points them to Christ in the same types and shadows. I also believe that Israel/Judea was predestined to fail, which is another aspect of reason why God created them. But does this add or take away, add meaning or relate to your thread here, I don't think so. However, I just post some scriptures anyway, because all of God's word is good .

1 Kings 8:41-44
1 Kings 8:41-44

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name’s sake [SUP]42 [/SUP](for they will hear of Your great name and Your strong hand and Your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this temple, [SUP]43 [/SUP]hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You, that all peoples of the earth may know Your name and fear You, as do Your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by Your name.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“When Your people go out to battle against their enemy, wherever You send them, and when they pray to the Lord toward the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name,

1 kings 8:60
[SUP]60 [/SUP]that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other.

Exodus 12:48-49
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. [SUP]49[/SUP]One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you" (also see Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 9:14, Numbers 15:14-16, **Essence of the Law: Deut. 10:12-22**)

Proverbs 11:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who wins souls is wise. (winning souls isn't new to NT, but that said, does this verse pertain to the wicked in Israel only, or the others in the region?)

Non Jews joined the Israelites:
1) When the Jews left Egypt, many Egyptians joint them.
2) At the end of the Story of Esther.
3) The story Ruth the Moabite
4) The harlot Rahab and her family.

God made Israel to be a beautiful bride, decked out in jewelry and clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4, Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Eze. 23:40-42; Exodus 28 and Isaiah 5:4) In other words, she was HOT... Why? Was she made attractive to God alone, or attract others around her?

Psalm 60:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You have given a banner to those who fear You,
That it may be displayed because of the truth


I guess what I trying to draw out of this is that God had the Gentiles, or the whole world in mind, using Israel as an object of His grace and love, and demonstration of His Holy character.

Later, I'm not sure if any of this makes sense...I'm a mind of mush atm.

 

[Elin]

And again,

"Houston, we have a problem."

To name a few that were not literal, the prophecies in:

Da 9:24 about seven weeks is not literal. They are literal who said they were not?

Mt 2:18 about Rachael and the slaugher of the infants in Jesus' childhood is not literal. Literal. All kids under age of two were killed. Everey mother was wailing at the loss of her child..

Ac 4:11 about Jesus being a stone and a capstone is not literal. not prophesy, but a statement of fact using allegorical terms..

Ac 15:16 about rebuilding David's tent is not literal. lol.. ok.. This was used to show even the prophets spoke of gentiles knowing God.. this is not saying this was fulfilled.. but ok.

Ro 9:33 about Jesus being a stone and a rock is not literal. Jesus was a stumbling stone, and a rock of offense, it is why they crucified him. this is literal..

Ro 11:8 about eyes and ears is not literal. Literal. are you joking? they had eyes which saw, but did not see, they had ears that heard but did not hear.

enough of this nonsense. Can you show me 1 prophesy before christ, which was fulfilled which was not literal?? just 1??

The statue of four kingdoms under discussion in Da 2 is not literal.

And the first three were fulfilled over 1,000 years ago.

Scripture presents no rule whereby prophecy before Christ must be literal, while prophecy after Christ does not.

None of it has to be literal.

God told Aaron and Miriam that he gave prophecy in riddles (dark sayings). (Nu 12:6-8)

Take it up with him.

 

[Bookends]

The rock that crushed the statue of the four kingdoms was Christ, the same rock that accompanied them in the desert and from which they drank, which was Christ (1Co 1:4).

The rock which is the fifth kingdom is the eternal Messianic kingdom.

Just curious, do you think Christ alone is the rock, or the NT and present age Church with Christ as it's Head, Ruler as the Rock? I think its the Church with Christ as it's head.

 

[Abiding]

Elin,

Just like you love it with one heaping
tablespoon of antipremilfrustriation powder

 

[Elin]

EG said,
"Isreal was SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GENTILES THE GOSPEL. they FAILED. that is why God did what he did to them./.
because they thought what God gave to them, to give to the world. was for them only"

Elin said,
"Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles? "






I wanted to provide context to my response here. I think I misunderstand what EG was saying and what Elin was asking. Therefore my response may not apply to the original question. Elin, if you are looking for me to find a specific mandate for the nation of ancient Israel to spread the gospel, I don't think there is one. But I think one among many aspects of Israel's creation was for God to have a separate people in where His Glory would be demonstrated to the world (nations surrounding the land, the region). They were also commanded to accept the foreigner treat the foreigner without partiality, they where to be assimilated into the culture, which points them to Christ in the same types and shadows. I also believe that Israel/Judea was predestined to fail, which is another aspect of reason why God created them. But does this add or take away, add meaning or relate to your thread here, I don't think so. However, I just post some scriptures anyway, because all of God's word is good .

1 Kings 8:41-44
1 Kings 8:41-44

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name’s sake [SUP]42 [/SUP](for they will hear of Your great name and Your strong hand and Your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this temple, [SUP]43 [/SUP]hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You, that all peoples of the earth may know Your name and fear You, as do Your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by Your name.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“When Your people go out to battle against their enemy, wherever You send them, and when they pray to the Lord toward the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name,

1 kings 8:60
[SUP]60 [/SUP]that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other.

Exodus 12:48-49
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. [SUP]49[/SUP]One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you" (also see Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 9:14, Numbers 15:14-16, **Essence of the Law: Deut. 10:12-22**)

Proverbs 11:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who wins souls is wise. (winning souls isn't new to NT, but that said, does this verse pertain to the wicked in Israel only, or the others in the region?)

Non Jews joined the Israelites:
1) When the Jews left Egypt, many Egyptians joint them.
2) At the end of the Story of Esther.
3) The story Ruth the Moabite
4) The harlot Rahab and her family.

God made Israel to be a beautiful bride, decked out in jewelry and clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4, Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Eze. 23:40-42; Exodus 28 and Isaiah 5:4) In other words, she was HOT... Why? Was she made attractive to God alone, or attract others around her?

Psalm 60:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You have given a banner to those who fear You,
That it may be displayed because of the truth


I guess what I trying to draw out of this is that God had the Gentiles, or the whole world in mind, using Israel as an object of His grace and love, and demonstration of His Holy character.

Later, I'm not sure if any of this makes sense...I'm a mind of mush atm.

Thanks, Bookends, for your gracious effort.

It was helpful.

 

[Elin]

Just curious, do you think Christ alone is the rock, or the NT and present age Church with Christ as it's Head, Ruler as the Rock? I think its the Church with Christ as it's head.

The Messiah is referred to as a stone or rock in many places in Scripture.

Do you know of any place where the NT Church is referred to as a rock?

 

[Elin]

Elin,

Just like you love it with one heaping
tablespoon of antipremilfrustriation powder

UR killin' me!

The powder is sugar free, right?