What is the Messianic Kingdom?
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E
well I can't agree. Paul said at a time, all of them would be saved.. when? when the age of the genitle has been completed. And he did not say all people who would be saved would then be saved, He said gentiles should be be proud in their calling,, why? because some time soon, All isreal would be saved.
So why would I want to be puffed up think I made it.. and God is done with Isreal? when paul is warning me of doing this very same thing
anything else is just an idea or belief, which I can not hold to.
this is why we can not agree brother, we see it two different ways.
So why would I want to be puffed up think I made it.. and God is done with Isreal? when paul is warning me of doing this very same thing
anything else is just an idea or belief, which I can not hold to.
this is why we can not agree brother, we see it two different ways.
And again,
"Houston, we have a problem."
To name a few, the prophecies in:
Da 9:24 about seven weeks is not literal.
Mt 2:18 about Rachael and the slaugher of the infants in Jesus' childhood is not literal.
Ac 4:11 about Jesus being a stone and a capstone is not literal.
Ac 15:16 about rebuilding David's tent is not literal.
Ro 9:33 about Jesus being a stone and a rock is not literal.
Ro 11:8 about eyes and ears is not literal.
Gal 4:27 about exiled Jerusalem is not literal.
Rev 4:5 about seven lamps is not literal.
Rev 9:7-9 about the locusts is not literal.
Rev 9:17-19 about the horses is not literal.
Most prophecy is not literal, but given in riddles.
"Houston, we have a problem."
To name a few, the prophecies in:
Da 9:24 about seven weeks is not literal.
Mt 2:18 about Rachael and the slaugher of the infants in Jesus' childhood is not literal.
Ac 4:11 about Jesus being a stone and a capstone is not literal.
Ac 15:16 about rebuilding David's tent is not literal.
Ro 9:33 about Jesus being a stone and a rock is not literal.
Ro 11:8 about eyes and ears is not literal.
Gal 4:27 about exiled Jerusalem is not literal.
Rev 4:5 about seven lamps is not literal.
Rev 9:7-9 about the locusts is not literal.
Rev 9:17-19 about the horses is not literal.
Most prophecy is not literal, but given in riddles.
E
Will he come back?? Was rome an iron leg? Or did the iron leg show us the type of kingdom rome would be?
again your scaring me, He used figurative language to show literal things did he not?? Did the events those things represented literally happen or not??
He did not use figurative languge to show figurative things,, everything he said would happen DID HAPPEN. did they not?
again your scaring me, He used figurative language to show literal things did he not?? Did the events those things represented literally happen or not??
He did not use figurative languge to show figurative things,, everything he said would happen DID HAPPEN. did they not?
What part of the following do you not understand?
"Finally (i.e., this is the last one, no more earthly kingdoms in the statue) there will b a fourth kingdom. . .it will crush and break all the others (the other three).
In the time of those (four) kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom (kingdom #5), which is the rock that strikes the statue of four kingdoms. . .It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever."
The rock that crushed the statue of the four kingdoms was Christ, the same rock that accompanied them in the desert and from which they drank, which was Christ (1Co 1:4).
The rock which is the fifth kingdom is the eternal Messianic kingdom.
The fifth kingdom is built on the crushed ruins of the statue of the four kingdoms.
The fifth kingdom fills (extends over) the whole earth. and ultimately over a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21:1).
There is no future temporal Messianic kingdom.
Your problem is with Daniel's interpretation of the statue. Take it up with him.
"Finally (i.e., this is the last one, no more earthly kingdoms in the statue) there will b a fourth kingdom. . .it will crush and break all the others (the other three).
In the time of those (four) kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom (kingdom #5), which is the rock that strikes the statue of four kingdoms. . .It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it itself will endure forever."
The rock that crushed the statue of the four kingdoms was Christ, the same rock that accompanied them in the desert and from which they drank, which was Christ (1Co 1:4).
The rock which is the fifth kingdom is the eternal Messianic kingdom.
The fifth kingdom is built on the crushed ruins of the statue of the four kingdoms.
The fifth kingdom fills (extends over) the whole earth. and ultimately over a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21:1).
There is no future temporal Messianic kingdom.
Your problem is with Daniel's interpretation of the statue. Take it up with him.
EG said,
"Isreal was SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GENTILES THE GOSPEL. they FAILED. that is why God did what he did to them./.
because they thought what God gave to them, to give to the world. was for them only"
Elin said,
"Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles? "
I wanted to provide context to my response here. I think I misunderstand what EG was saying and what Elin was asking. Therefore my response may not apply to the original question. Elin, if you are looking for me to find a specific mandate for the nation of ancient Israel to spread the gospel, I don't think there is one. But I think one among many aspects of Israel's creation was for God to have a separate people in where His Glory would be demonstrated to the world (nations surrounding the land, the region). They were also commanded to accept the foreigner treat the foreigner without partiality, they where to be assimilated into the culture, which points them to Christ in the same types and shadows. I also believe that Israel/Judea was predestined to fail, which is another aspect of reason why God created them. But does this add or take away, add meaning or relate to your thread here, I don't think so. However, I just post some scriptures anyway, because all of God's word is good
.
1 Kings 8:41-44
1 Kings 8:41-44
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name’s sake [SUP]42 [/SUP](for they will hear of Your great name and Your strong hand and Your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this temple, [SUP]43 [/SUP]hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You, that all peoples of the earth may know Your name and fear You, as do Your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by Your name.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“When Your people go out to battle against their enemy, wherever You send them, and when they pray to the Lord toward the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name,
1 kings 8:60
[SUP]60 [/SUP]that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other.
Exodus 12:48-49
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. [SUP]49[/SUP]One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you" (also see Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 9:14, Numbers 15:14-16, **Essence of the Law: Deut. 10:12-22**)
Proverbs 11:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who wins souls is wise. (winning souls isn't new to NT, but that said, does this verse pertain to the wicked in Israel only, or the others in the region?)
Non Jews joined the Israelites:
1) When the Jews left Egypt, many Egyptians joint them.
2) At the end of the Story of Esther.
3) The story Ruth the Moabite
4) The harlot Rahab and her family.
God made Israel to be a beautiful bride, decked out in jewelry and clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4, Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Eze. 23:40-42; Exodus 28 and Isaiah 5:4) In other words, she was HOT... Why? Was she made attractive to God alone, or attract others around her?
Psalm 60:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You have given a banner to those who fear You,
That it may be displayed because of the truth
I guess what I trying to draw out of this is that God had the Gentiles, or the whole world in mind, using Israel as an object of His grace and love, and demonstration of His Holy character.
Later, I'm not sure if any of this makes sense...I'm a mind of mush atm.
"Isreal was SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GENTILES THE GOSPEL. they FAILED. that is why God did what he did to them./.
because they thought what God gave to them, to give to the world. was for them only"
Elin said,
"Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles? "
I wanted to provide context to my response here. I think I misunderstand what EG was saying and what Elin was asking. Therefore my response may not apply to the original question. Elin, if you are looking for me to find a specific mandate for the nation of ancient Israel to spread the gospel, I don't think there is one. But I think one among many aspects of Israel's creation was for God to have a separate people in where His Glory would be demonstrated to the world (nations surrounding the land, the region). They were also commanded to accept the foreigner treat the foreigner without partiality, they where to be assimilated into the culture, which points them to Christ in the same types and shadows. I also believe that Israel/Judea was predestined to fail, which is another aspect of reason why God created them. But does this add or take away, add meaning or relate to your thread here, I don't think so. However, I just post some scriptures anyway, because all of God's word is good
.1 Kings 8:41-44
1 Kings 8:41-44
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name’s sake [SUP]42 [/SUP](for they will hear of Your great name and Your strong hand and Your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this temple, [SUP]43 [/SUP]hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You, that all peoples of the earth may know Your name and fear You, as do Your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by Your name.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“When Your people go out to battle against their enemy, wherever You send them, and when they pray to the Lord toward the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name,
1 kings 8:60
[SUP]60 [/SUP]that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other.
Exodus 12:48-49
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. [SUP]49[/SUP]One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you" (also see Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 9:14, Numbers 15:14-16, **Essence of the Law: Deut. 10:12-22**)
Proverbs 11:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who wins souls is wise. (winning souls isn't new to NT, but that said, does this verse pertain to the wicked in Israel only, or the others in the region?)
Non Jews joined the Israelites:
1) When the Jews left Egypt, many Egyptians joint them.
2) At the end of the Story of Esther.
3) The story Ruth the Moabite
4) The harlot Rahab and her family.
God made Israel to be a beautiful bride, decked out in jewelry and clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4, Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Eze. 23:40-42; Exodus 28 and Isaiah 5:4) In other words, she was HOT... Why? Was she made attractive to God alone, or attract others around her?
Psalm 60:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You have given a banner to those who fear You,
That it may be displayed because of the truth
I guess what I trying to draw out of this is that God had the Gentiles, or the whole world in mind, using Israel as an object of His grace and love, and demonstration of His Holy character.
Later, I'm not sure if any of this makes sense...I'm a mind of mush atm.
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The statue of four kingdoms under discussion in Da 2 is not literal.
And the first three were fulfilled over 1,000 years ago.
Scripture presents no rule whereby prophecy before Christ must be literal, while prophecy after Christ does not.
None of it has to be literal.
God told Aaron and Miriam that he gave prophecy in riddles (dark sayings). (Nu 12:6-8)
Take it up with him.
And the first three were fulfilled over 1,000 years ago.
Scripture presents no rule whereby prophecy before Christ must be literal, while prophecy after Christ does not.
None of it has to be literal.
God told Aaron and Miriam that he gave prophecy in riddles (dark sayings). (Nu 12:6-8)
Take it up with him.
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EG said,
"Isreal was SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GENTILES THE GOSPEL. they FAILED. that is why God did what he did to them./.
because they thought what God gave to them, to give to the world. was for them only"
Elin said,
"Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles? "
I wanted to provide context to my response here. I think I misunderstand what EG was saying and what Elin was asking. Therefore my response may not apply to the original question. Elin, if you are looking for me to find a specific mandate for the nation of ancient Israel to spread the gospel, I don't think there is one. But I think one among many aspects of Israel's creation was for God to have a separate people in where His Glory would be demonstrated to the world (nations surrounding the land, the region). They were also commanded to accept the foreigner treat the foreigner without partiality, they where to be assimilated into the culture, which points them to Christ in the same types and shadows. I also believe that Israel/Judea was predestined to fail, which is another aspect of reason why God created them. But does this add or take away, add meaning or relate to your thread here, I don't think so. However, I just post some scriptures anyway, because all of God's word is good.
1 Kings 8:41-44
1 Kings 8:41-44
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name’s sake [SUP]42 [/SUP](for they will hear of Your great name and Your strong hand and Your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this temple, [SUP]43 [/SUP]hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You, that all peoples of the earth may know Your name and fear You, as do Your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by Your name.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“When Your people go out to battle against their enemy, wherever You send them, and when they pray to the Lord toward the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name,
1 kings 8:60
[SUP]60 [/SUP]that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other.
Exodus 12:48-49
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. [SUP]49[/SUP]One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you" (also see Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 9:14, Numbers 15:14-16, **Essence of the Law: Deut. 10:12-22**)
Proverbs 11:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who wins souls is wise. (winning souls isn't new to NT, but that said, does this verse pertain to the wicked in Israel only, or the others in the region?)
Non Jews joined the Israelites:
1) When the Jews left Egypt, many Egyptians joint them.
2) At the end of the Story of Esther.
3) The story Ruth the Moabite
4) The harlot Rahab and her family.
God made Israel to be a beautiful bride, decked out in jewelry and clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4, Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Eze. 23:40-42; Exodus 28 and Isaiah 5:4) In other words, she was HOT... Why? Was she made attractive to God alone, or attract others around her?
Psalm 60:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You have given a banner to those who fear You,
That it may be displayed because of the truth
I guess what I trying to draw out of this is that God had the Gentiles, or the whole world in mind, using Israel as an object of His grace and love, and demonstration of His Holy character.
Later, I'm not sure if any of this makes sense...I'm a mind of mush atm.
"Isreal was SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GENTILES THE GOSPEL. they FAILED. that is why God did what he did to them./.
because they thought what God gave to them, to give to the world. was for them only"
Elin said,
"Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles? "
I wanted to provide context to my response here. I think I misunderstand what EG was saying and what Elin was asking. Therefore my response may not apply to the original question. Elin, if you are looking for me to find a specific mandate for the nation of ancient Israel to spread the gospel, I don't think there is one. But I think one among many aspects of Israel's creation was for God to have a separate people in where His Glory would be demonstrated to the world (nations surrounding the land, the region). They were also commanded to accept the foreigner treat the foreigner without partiality, they where to be assimilated into the culture, which points them to Christ in the same types and shadows. I also believe that Israel/Judea was predestined to fail, which is another aspect of reason why God created them. But does this add or take away, add meaning or relate to your thread here, I don't think so. However, I just post some scriptures anyway, because all of God's word is good
.1 Kings 8:41-44
1 Kings 8:41-44
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name’s sake [SUP]42 [/SUP](for they will hear of Your great name and Your strong hand and Your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this temple, [SUP]43 [/SUP]hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You, that all peoples of the earth may know Your name and fear You, as do Your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by Your name.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“When Your people go out to battle against their enemy, wherever You send them, and when they pray to the Lord toward the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name,
1 kings 8:60
[SUP]60 [/SUP]that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other.
Exodus 12:48-49
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. [SUP]49[/SUP]One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you" (also see Leviticus 24:22, Numbers 9:14, Numbers 15:14-16, **Essence of the Law: Deut. 10:12-22**)
Proverbs 11:30
[SUP]30 [/SUP]The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who wins souls is wise. (winning souls isn't new to NT, but that said, does this verse pertain to the wicked in Israel only, or the others in the region?)
Non Jews joined the Israelites:
1) When the Jews left Egypt, many Egyptians joint them.
2) At the end of the Story of Esther.
3) The story Ruth the Moabite
4) The harlot Rahab and her family.
God made Israel to be a beautiful bride, decked out in jewelry and clothed in fine attire (Rev 17:4, Isaiah 3:16-23; Ezekiel 16:9-14; Eze. 23:40-42; Exodus 28 and Isaiah 5:4) In other words, she was HOT... Why? Was she made attractive to God alone, or attract others around her?
Psalm 60:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]You have given a banner to those who fear You,
That it may be displayed because of the truth
I guess what I trying to draw out of this is that God had the Gentiles, or the whole world in mind, using Israel as an object of His grace and love, and demonstration of His Holy character.
Later, I'm not sure if any of this makes sense...I'm a mind of mush atm.
It was helpful.