Dual Covenant Theology

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe God brought them back and a time is coming when they will all be saved, for that is what to me scripture plainly states. Can I rationalise it? No! But I don't have to. You can rationalise how they became a country again, you can rationalise they have had help from America to win wars, but I just see it simply, God's plan is to give them back the land and keep them there. Can I rationalise why he has done this before they all turn to him? No! But I do not have to, I just accpet the plain scripture.

.
Some subjects I have delved in to(some I have been forced to study up on lol) this one I simply accept in very simple faith and have an assurity it is true

we can open another thread if you wish, and I would have to get all my notes together again.

But God uses calamity to open people up. Scripture says he uses extreme persecution he calls the time of jacobs trouble (we call the tribulation period) to get Isreal to fall on their knees and call out to God.. and this is when they finally repent and see the truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ezra 2:70
Now the priests, the Levites, some of the people, the singers, the gatekeepers, and the temple servants lived in their towns, and all the rest of Israel in their towns.

Ezra 6:17
They offered at the dedication of this house of God 100 bulls, 200 rams, 400 lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel 12 male goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel.

Ezra 8:35
At that time those who had come from captivity, the returned exiles, offered burnt offerings to the God of Israel, twelve bulls for all Israel, ninety-six rams, seventy-seven lambs, and as a sin offering twelve male goats. All this was a burnt offering to the Lord.

Acts 2:36
"Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."


any lost tribes?
were members from all 12 tribes of Israel in the Land in time for Daniel 9 to come to pass?


John 5:39-40
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


is there eternal life to be found in the scriptures without coming to Jesus Christ the Actual Literal King of Israel; Messiah?
do they testify enough of Christ?

what did He say about it?

same ole stuff.

The land promise was never meant to be salvic. so you can post these same arguments over and over, they will not support your case.

Ezra was being returned from babylon. And they NEVER gained possetion and ownership of the land, they never worshiped God as God in the true way (they brought the pagan Gods back with them) they never were united (the jews still considered the northern kingdom as half breeds who were not worthy of God) they never lived in peace. The gentiles still owned the land they were allowed to come back to.

If your going to try to make that a fulfillment, You better make sure ALL the things promised were fulfilled. Otherwise you just hurting your position.

 

[mark54]

we can open another thread if you wish, and I would have to get all my notes together again.

But God uses calamity to open people up. Scripture says he uses extreme persecution he calls the time of jacobs trouble (we call the tribulation period) to get Isreal to fall on their knees and call out to God.. and this is when they finally repent and see the truth.

EG
I have given all the opinions on this subject I feel capable of doing. As I say, beyond believing 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy(I agree with you still a long way to go) and believing a time is coming when all Israel will be saved, that's it
Sorry if I have disappointed you, but beyond that, this is not a subject I engage in, and I rarely engage in it at all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so you do not accept the plain reading of scripture then.

Yeah I think he does. thats why he believes the way he does

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG
I have given all the opinions on this subject I feel capable of doing. As I say, beyond believing 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy(I agree with you still a long way to go) and believing a time is coming when all Israel will be saved, that's it
Sorry if I have disappointed you, but beyond that, this is not a subject I engage in, and I rarely engage in it at all

Its ok bro.. it is my favorite subject. and it is always good to talk to someone who wants to learn..

 

[cfultz3]

Question: how many times have the Jews, while in their land, been punished by God? Like have their enemies over them, enslaved etc?

Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

 

[mark54]

we can open another thread if you wish, and I would have to get all my notes together again.

But God uses calamity to open people up. Scripture says he uses extreme persecution he calls the time of jacobs trouble (we call the tribulation period) to get Isreal to fall on their knees and call out to God.. and this is when they finally repent and see the truth.

Though as I have said I have never discussed this in depth, I would just like to endorse what you have written, God does indeed use calamity in our lives to open us up and bring us to our knees, and I have no problem believing that this may indeed be the way Israel en masse turns to God. I am sure you may well be right

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Question: how many times have the Jews, while in their land, been punished by God? Like have their enemies over them, enslaved etc?

Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

When the first temple was built. people actually got killed for entering the Holy of Holys in an unclean state. when they sent the priest in. they had to have a rope tied around him so they could pull his body out just in case.

When the second temple was built.. This never happened, even though many priests entered and even defiled the temple?

why is this? the presense of God never entered the second temple. it was just a show.

just like the third temple will be just a show.

 

[cfultz3]

Question: how many times have the Jews, while in their land, been punished by God? Like have their enemies over them, enslaved etc?

Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Wait, the question is how many kingdoms have they had over them? Persia ---> Rome (is Rome the 6th 7th, etc)?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Though as I have said I have never discussed this in depth, I would just like to endorse what you have written, God does indeed use calamity in our lives to open us up and bring us to our knees, and I have no problem believing that this may indeed be the way Israel en masse turns to God. I am sure you may well be right

It is a fascinating study, if you ever decide to look into it, or want some help just let me know

 

[mark54]

It is a fascinating study, if you ever decide to look into it, or want some help just let me know

Thanks EG, I will

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wait, the question is how many kingdoms have they had over them? Persia ---> Rome (is Rome the 6th 7th, etc)?

according to daniel. tghere will be 5.. Babylon, Media perisa, greece, rome and divided rome.

But syria took the northern kingdom. although they did not touch jerusalem.

 

[cfultz3]

according to daniel. tghere will be 5.. Babylon, Media perisa, greece, rome and divided rome.

But syria took the northern kingdom. although they did not touch jerusalem.

okay, thanks.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

okay, thanks.

one thing to remember, from the time babylon first destroyed the temple and city, Isreal, has never been sole possessors of the land, There were always there by permission until 70 Ad..

 

[cfultz3]

Let me see if I can ask this in a different manner (I accept your answers, but I had a different reasoning in asking). I was trying to see, when God said I will punish you seven times more (said about 3 or 4 times in that chapter), that if they were punished that many times before they received their land back in 1948?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me see if I can ask this in a different manner (I accept your answers, but I had a different reasoning in asking). I was trying to see, when God said I will punish you seven times more (said about 3 or 4 times in that chapter), that if they were punished that many times before they received their land back in 1948?

I think whet he meant by that is each successive punishment would be 7 times more severe then the previous punishment, the final punishment being the destruction of the city, and a foreign land taking them captive,, Which happened by syria as far as the northern kingdom goes. and babylon for the southern kingdom of Judah and eventually rome in 70 AD.

 

[Abiding]

John 10:16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be One fold and One Shephard.

 

[cfultz3]

John 10:16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be One fold and One Shephard.

I love me some God

 

[Abiding]

Or as in another thread:

John 10:16

Therapon revised Edition(TRE)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall not hear my voice; and there shall be two folds, and two shepherds.

 

[zone]

at this point i wonder if it is a salvation issue.
i don't know how anyone can get this wrong.
some other jesus being preached.


means nuthin' to me personally.
whatevah.

good post btw abiding.
says it all.
but what can ya do. eh?