Revelation's 42 Months and 1260 Days

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Therapon

Guest
#1
Due to my particular ministry, I may possibly be aware of fulfillments of prophecy that the church at large is not. I’ll leave out most of the gory details, but this will still be a bit lengthy, please be patient.

35 years ago, the Lord led to dedicate the rest of my life to a new study of His prophetic books. One of the first things I learned from Daniel 12:11 was there would be 1290 days from the abolition of sacrifices in Daniel’s time until the “abomination that maketh desolate” would be set up. Ezekiel 4:5-6 reveals that a prophetic day should be understood as a year. Well, it is exactly 1290 Hebrew years, 1271.5 solar years, from when sacrifices were abolished in Daniel’s time until 688 A.D. when Kalifah Abd el Malik ibn Marwan began construction of the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount of God most holy.

The next thing I noted was that there were prophetic days and months in Revelation and wondered if they too should be understood as years. I ran what appeared to be that cockamamie theory up a flagpole to see if anyone saluted. Revelation 11:2 states:

“But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”

In the lead article of the March 1983 edition of the well-respected Biblical Archaeology Review, Israeli archaeologist Arthur F. Kaufman, proved through holes he found on the northern edge of the temple platform, drilled in the bedrock, spaced on the sacred cubit, that the original Temple of Solomon stood some 300 North of the Dome and that the Dome of the Rock now stands in what was once known as the court of the Gentiles.

Now look at that verse again: “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”

The holy city Jerusalem was freed from Gentile control on June 6, 1967, the Dome of the rock is in the court of the Gentiles, and 42 months is 1278.34 days.

1967-1278.23 = 688.66 A.D. and the construction of the Dome of the Rock!
Not creative theology, brother, provable history!

Next, look at the two following verses, Revelation 11:3-4. Could they also be day years again?

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

Revelation 1:20 states, “and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches,” so the two witnesses of 11:2-3 are churches unless God changes the definition of candlesticks somewhere between Revelation 1 and Revelation 11, which He didn’t, so Candlesticks are churches! But which churches, fortunately there is another figurative descriptor, “these are the two olive trees.”

Now it’s terrible hermeneutics to go to the Old Testament for the definition of new New Testament figurative language when there is a New Testament definition that fits perfectly, so we look around the New Testament and what do we find? Romans 11:24-25:

“For if thou (Gentile believers) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree (the Jewish people): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

So there are your two olive trees, but what about those 1260 days? The new nation of Israel was established on March 15, 1948, when the Jews were once again back in control of the land that God swore to give to the descendants of Abraham:

1948 -1260 equals 688 A.D and the Dome of the Rock again.

Now I might be able to accept one coincidence, two coincidences over 2573 years would be stretching my credulity, but three? No way, so we now have a provable doctrine! But will many here believe it? Probably not. They will argue about the details, and undoubtedly I’ll be called a heretic a few more times, but the evidence is overwhelming:

The Two Witnesses during the Christian era are the Jewish people and the Gentile church!


The rest should be downhill if we just accept Romans 2:28, Romans 4:15, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:11, Romans 11:24-29 at face value. Would one of God’s Two Witnesses to an unsaved world during the Christian era be lost? Of course not, and I have only shown here and in various other threads, a smattering of the biblical evidence showing that a devout Jew of our own time could be saved without recognizing Yeshua as his Messiah.

You see, brother, the Church today teaches a doctrinal salvation . . . that you need to have your doctrine right to be saved. I believe that to be false doctrine. All over the Bible we read that God is far more concerned with the condition of the heart then He is with doctrinal accuracy. To paraphrase 1 Samuel 16:7, “Man looketh upon the doctrine, but the Lord looketh upon the heart.”
 
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A

Anonimous

Guest
#2
Due to my particular ministry, I may possibly be aware of fulfillments of prophecy that the church at large is not. I’ll leave out most of the gory details, but this will still be a bit lengthy, please be patient.

35 years ago, the Lord led to dedicate the rest of my life to a new study of His prophetic books. One of the first things I learned from Daniel 12:11 was there would be 1290 days from the abolition of sacrifices in Daniel’s time until the “abomination that maketh desolate” would be set up. Ezekiel 4:5-6 reveals that a prophetic day should be understood as a year. Well, it is exactly 1290 Hebrew years, 1271.5 solar years, from when sacrifices were abolished in Daniel’s time until 688 A.D. when Kalifah Abd el Malik ibn Marwan began construction of the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount of God most holy.

The next thing I noted was that there were prophetic days and months in Revelation and wondered if they too should be understood as years. I ran what appeared to be that cockamamie theory up a flagpole to see if anyone saluted. Revelation 11:2 states:

“But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”

In the lead article of the March 1983 edition of the well-respected Biblical Archaeology Review, Israeli archaeologist Arthur F. Kaufman, proved through holes he found on the northern edge of the temple platform, drilled in the bedrock, spaced on the sacred cubit, that the original Temple of Solomon stood some 300 North of the Dome and that the Dome of the Rock now stands in what was once known as the court of the Gentiles.

Now look at that verse again: “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”

The holy city Jerusalem was freed from Gentile control on June 6, 1967, the Dome of the rock is in the court of the Gentiles, and 42 months is 1278.34 days.

1967-1278.23 = 688.66 A.D. and the construction of the Dome of the Rock!
Not creative theology, brother, provable history!

Next, look at the two following verses, Revelation 11:3-4. Could they also be day years again?

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

Revelation 1:20 states, “and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches,” so the two witnesses of 11:2-3 are churches unless God changes the definition of candlesticks somewhere between Revelation 1 and Revelation 11, which He didn’t, so Candlesticks are churches! But which churches, fortunately there is another figurative descriptor, “these are the two olive trees.”

Now it’s terrible hermeneutics to go to the Old Testament for the definition of new New Testament figurative language when there is a New Testament definition that fits perfectly, so we look around the New Testament and what do we find? Romans 11:24-25:

“For if thou (Gentile believers) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree (the Jewish people): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

So there are your two olive trees, but what about those 1260 days? The new nation of Israel was established on March 15, 1948, when the Jews were once again back in control of the land that God swore to give to the descendants of Abraham:

1948 -1260 equals 688 A.D and the Dome of the Rock again.

Now I might be able to accept one coincidence, two coincidences over 2573 years would be stretching my credulity, but three? No way, so we now have a provable doctrine! But will many here believe it? Probably not. They will argue about the details, and undoubtedly I’ll be called a heretic a few more times, but the evidence is overwhelming:

The Two Witnesses during the Christian era are the Jewish people and the Gentile church!


The rest should be downhill if we just accept Romans 2:28, Romans 4:15, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:11, Romans 11:24-29 at face value. Would one of God’s Two Witnesses to an unsaved world during the Christian era be lost? Of course not, and I have only shown here and in various other threads, a smattering of the biblical evidence showing that a devout Jew of our own time could be saved without recognizing Yeshua as his Messiah.

You see, brother, the Church today teaches a doctrinal salvation . . . that you need to have your doctrine right to be saved. I believe that to be false doctrine. All over the Bible we read that God is far more concerned with the condition of the heart then He is with doctrinal accuracy. To paraphrase 1 Samuel 16:7, “Man looketh upon the doctrine, but the Lord looketh upon the heart.”



Good thought there. God is bigger than us and knows our hearts. I think he knows full well where we stand in our hearts. He probably does mind if we do not know everything or speak Greek or Hebrew. We are told to "call on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." Maybe there could be a verse missing that says, "Study the original Grrek and Hebrew...study and learn all there is to know...THEN, when you understand it all...call on Me..." Thre thief on the cross didn't have time for all that. He simply believed. That was probably good enough for Jesus. Why do we (The church) Have to complicate everything?
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#3
Therapon, I'm glad you couldn't stay away. Thanks for your research. Keep it coming. I know I don't have the time to delve into the scriptures like you do, but I like seeing what you come up with. May God bless you with even greater wisdom as you dig deeper for the truth in His message.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#4
Mr. Theapon,

For my curiously, and to be more informed, would you talk more about the two witnesses, in the sense of Judaism and Christianity being those two witnesses. How do you reconcile the following verses with the understanding that they are what one could call divisions and not individuals beings:

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
#5
Therapon, I'm glad you couldn't stay away. Thanks for your research. Keep it coming. I know I don't have the time to delve into the scriptures like you do, but I like seeing what you come up with. May God bless you with even greater wisdom as you dig deeper for the truth in His message.
I was out of here, but many people asked me to stay so here I am. This is not my central ministry, you know. Taught my first Bible study back in 1952, while I was a student at Columbia Bible College. Man, if you ever wanted to meet a hard-line futurist, t'was I. Tattooed on my backside: a coming Antichrist, seven-year trib, rebuilt temple, in fact the whole dispensational enchilada. I tell you, brother, there is nothing in life harder to do than unlearn something you're absolutely cocksure you know!
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#6
I have only shown here and in various other threads, a smattering of the biblical evidence showing that a devout Jew of our own time could be saved without recognizing Yeshua as his Messiah.
there is no greater antichrist message than this.

May The LORD rebuke you and all who give you aid.

may the jews be saved from the likes of you.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#7
Ezekiel 4:5-6 reveals that a prophetic day should be understood as a year...
In the context of Ezek 4v4-5, the days are literal days, and the years are literal years, they are certainly not a principle of prophetic interpretation.

The context of each individual prophetic scripture decides primarily how it should be interpreted!

In the book of revelation, the period of three and a half years is given in 3 ways, in years (times and half a time), months (42 months) and days (1260 days) and God has given it this way to show us in no uncertain terms that He means exactly that... three and a half years, not some ridiculous fantasy period of 1260 years!

Tattooed on my backside
Maybe you should have another look!
35 years ago, the Lord led to dedicate the rest of my life to a new study of His prophetic books.
Well, just by the way you interpret periods of time, I would suggest your 35 years have been wasted...dear brother...

Yahweh Shalom...
 
P

peterT

Guest
#8
In the context of Ezek 4v4-5, the days are literal days, and the years are literal years, they are certainly not a principle of prophetic interpretation.

The context of each individual prophetic scripture decides primarily how it should be interpreted!

In the book of revelation, the period of three and a half years is given in 3 ways, in years (times and half a time), months (42 months) and days (1260 days) and God has given it this way to show us in no uncertain terms that He means exactly that... three and a half years, not some ridiculous fantasy period of 1260 years!



Maybe you should have another look!


Well, just by the way you interpret periods of time, I would suggest your 35 years have been wasted...dear brother...

Yahweh Shalom...
Amen brother

I think its shows they were on a 30 days for every month calendar

1260 days = 42 months

42 months=1260 days and 3 ½ years

Time times and a ½ of a time = 3 ½ years = 1260 days = 42 months
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#9
Mr. Theapon,

For my curiously, and to be more informed, would you talk more about the two witnesses, in the sense of Judaism and Christianity being those two witnesses. How do you reconcile the following verses with the understanding that they are what one could call divisions and not individuals beings:

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Would someone else mind answering this. Open to opinions (not that I will therefore believe it :) )
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#10
Therapon i also am glad you stayed, I hope i can one day be as wise as you.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
#11
there is no greater antichrist message than this.

May The LORD rebuke you and all who give you aid.

may the jews be saved from the likes of you.
Not only that this is what is recorded

Acts 4

Peter and John Before the Sanhedrin

4 The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. [SUP]2 [/SUP]They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people, proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead. [SUP]3 [/SUP]They seized Peter and John and, because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. [SUP]4 [/SUP]But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The next day the rulers, the elders and the teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and others of the high priest’s family.[SUP]7 [/SUP]They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, [SUP]10 [/SUP]then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’
[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]12[/SUP]Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together.[SUP]16 [/SUP]“What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign, and we cannot deny it. [SUP]17[/SUP]But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in this name.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But Peter and John replied, “Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him?You be the judges! [SUP]20 [/SUP]As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]After further threats they let them go. They could not decide how to punish them, because all the people were praising God for what had happened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.

There is no other name,nada,zip,zilch,zero,none that one can be saved except for the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Salvation is not found in ANY ONE ELSE.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#12
Sarah....true that.
it seemed so obvious.
for so long.
how anything else could ever be taught is beyond me.

though there's nothing new under the sun:

15 So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together.16 “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign, and we cannot deny it. 17But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in this name.”


~


Sanhedrin of the Way
A Global Association of Orthodox Jewish Rabbis in Messiah Yeshua

JerusalemCouncil.org
הסנהדרין הדרך
Are you looking for the unaffiliated Nascent Sanhedrin? If not, please continue here:

Welcome to home of the Sanhedrin of the Way, a global leadership core of orthodox Jewish rabbis and their disciples of Yeshua the Messiah.

We are frum, haredi, even Chassidic, orthodox Jews who believe that Yeshua ben Yoseph mi’Netzaret, HaNotzri, is the Mashiach. We follow halacha, and recognize the authority of the Sages, and believe in both the written and the oral Torah. We also submit to the Nascent Sanhedrin on issues that do not contradict clear obedience to Yeshua (Yehoshua) HaMashiach. We are not “Messianic Jews” – we are simply Jews, frum, orthodox, haredi (many of us are Chassidic) Jews, because all Jews are looking eagerly for Mashiach to appear, and we hope you are too.

Sanhedrin of the Way | A Global Association of Orthodox Jewish Rabbis in Messiah Yeshua < click


please tell me how that's going to work out.
it isn't.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#14
From therapons OP

You see, brother, the Church today teaches a doctrinal salvation . . . that you need to have your doctrine right to be saved. I believe that to be false doctrine. All over the Bible we read that God is far more concerned with the condition of the heart then He is with doctrinal accuracy. To paraphrase 1 Samuel 16:7, “Man looketh upon the doctrine, but the Lord looketh upon the heart.”
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Ok thats what He says but this is what Jesus said:

John 8:31
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
2 John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

Now look up the word doctrine. Doctrine simply means teaching
John 7:16:
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

To those of you, mostly the young who seem to be falling over this guys teaching. Look up 1 Sam 16:7
Do you see how hes changed it? It all through his teaching, especially his Romans slight of hand.

And read what Paul actually said.

Learn what the two witnesses are, find out they certainly are not to do with unbelieving jews. I dont want to
take every fib hes telling and smash it. But ask yourself this question:

Why do i want to learn from a man who changes bible verses and gives them a false deadly meaning?
Do yourself a favor. Do your homework and quit being gullible(acts 17:11

or:

 
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tdrew777

Guest
#15
Ellis, Let's see if I can represent your teaching well. I'll write down what I think you are saying and you correct me if (when) I misrepresent:

From the New Testament age until the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem (688 A.D.) unbelieving Jews were "disobedient" to the gospel and formed a division that was "apart" i.e. contrary to Apostolic teaching. The apostles and their followers were God's sole witness at that time.


Acts 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium that they entered together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake that a great multitude both of Jews and of Greeks believed. 2 But the Jews that were disobedient stirred up the souls of the Gentiles, and made them evil affected against the brethren. 3 Long time therefore they tarried there speaking boldly in the Lord, who bare witness unto the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands. 4 But the multitude of the city was divided; and part held with the Jews, and part with the apostles.


From 688 until 1948, God had two witnesses, Israel and the church. God renewed the promises given to Abraham by giving a special blindness to the Jews. This sovereignly induced blindness removed all moral responsibility to recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Their witness was never intended to include Jesus, just the Abrahamic covenant and (non-Jesus) Messiah. The other witness is the church who does not have moral responsibility to recognize Jesus as Messiah either, since that is a doctrinal issue and salvation is a matter of the heart, not a matter of doctrine. Go will often reveal salvation apart from knowledge of Jesus if the human has their heart in the right place.


Since 1948, the time of the two witnesses is over, since the Jewish State is established. Yet we can infer that none of God's two witnesses will be lost.


Is that it? Did I leave anything out?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#16
Ellis, Let's see if I can represent your teaching well. I'll write down what I think you are saying and you correct me if (when) I misrepresent:

From the New Testament age until the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem (688 A.D.) unbelieving Jews were "disobedient" to the gospel and formed a division that was "apart" i.e. contrary to Apostolic teaching. The apostles and their followers were God's sole witness at that time.


Acts 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium that they entered together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake that a great multitude both of Jews and of Greeks believed. 2 But the Jews that were disobedient stirred up the souls of the Gentiles, and made them evil affected against the brethren. 3 Long time therefore they tarried there speaking boldly in the Lord, who bare witness unto the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands. 4 But the multitude of the city was divided; and part held with the Jews, and part with the apostles.


From 688 until 1948, God had two witnesses, Israel and the church. God renewed the promises given to Abraham by giving a special blindness to the Jews. This sovereignly induced blindness removed all moral responsibility to recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Their witness was never intended to include Jesus, just the Abrahamic covenant and (non-Jesus) Messiah. The other witness is the church who does not have moral responsibility to recognize Jesus as Messiah either, since that is a doctrinal issue and salvation is a matter of the heart, not a matter of doctrine. Go will often reveal salvation apart from knowledge of Jesus if the human has their heart in the right place.


Since 1948, the time of the two witnesses is over, since the Jewish State is established. Yet we can infer that none of God's two witnesses will be lost.


Is that it? Did I leave anything out?

just this
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#17
​A Must Read

2 Cor 5
7
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because ​ONLY in Christ is it taken away! 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail will be taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect[SUP]a[/SUP] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.


abidings errorbuster inc.
 
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Therapon

Guest
#18
Would someone else mind answering this. Open to opinions (not that I will therefore believe it :) )
Yes, I'll answer you and I'll get to the rest of you guys later. I've been teaching a seminar and I can't be in two places at once.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#19
Therapon i thought you said if anyone found flaws in your new doctrine you'd publically repent.
not convinced yet?

or you didn't really mean it.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
#20
Ellis, Let's see if I can represent your teaching well. I'll write down what I think you are saying and you correct me if (when) I misrepresent:From the New Testament age until the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem (688 A.D.) unbelieving Jews were "disobedient" to the gospel and formed a division that was "apart" i.e. contrary to Apostolic teaching. The apostles and their followers were God's sole witness at that time. ?
Nort exactly. With all due respect, brother, we obviously see Scripture through different filters. You appear to be concerned with the doctrinal issue while I'm concerned with what can be shown as historically fulfilled prophecy. So to my mind, the real question should be this: Is my original post true and historically accurate or false?

1. If false, then I'm a false teacher. I'll repent and with head hanging, fade into the sunset never to be seen again.

2. If provably true, however, then no matter how painful, we have to get our doctrines in line with observable reality or we are believing in false doctrine.

Peace my friend. I've been teaching a seminar and I'm exausted so I'll have to talk to you lter.