Is infant baptism biblical?
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A
True set apart or holy is true tho. My daughter walked out of my house pretty as a picture.
Now shes a human wreck. I do believe the children are set apart. But not after they leave the family.
Same goes for the marriage as long as they are married God I believe give special graces and mercies
to the unbelieving spouse if they are both living committed to each other. IMO. But doesnt mean saved.
Im totally into baby dedications. But dont see the word saying "water" regenerates.
Now shes a human wreck. I do believe the children are set apart. But not after they leave the family.
Same goes for the marriage as long as they are married God I believe give special graces and mercies
to the unbelieving spouse if they are both living committed to each other. IMO. But doesnt mean saved.
Im totally into baby dedications. But dont see the word saying "water" regenerates.
L
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
I Cor 12:13
There is one baptism when a person becomes saved or born again. It's being baptised into the body of Christ. It happens instantly as a person believes. Water baptism is just taking a bath or getting wet. It has nothing to do with this Age of Grace that we live in. Yes, at one time it was necessary. Remember Peter saying "Repent and be baptised"? That was during the Kingdom Gospel. Today we are saved under Paul's Gospel...the Gospel of Grace.
I know many people will disagree with me and that's okay...I disagreed not that long ago also. When I learned how to Rightly Divide the Word of God things began to fall into place as far as dividing the kingdom age believers from the Grace age believers.
I Cor 12:13
There is one baptism when a person becomes saved or born again. It's being baptised into the body of Christ. It happens instantly as a person believes. Water baptism is just taking a bath or getting wet. It has nothing to do with this Age of Grace that we live in. Yes, at one time it was necessary. Remember Peter saying "Repent and be baptised"? That was during the Kingdom Gospel. Today we are saved under Paul's Gospel...the Gospel of Grace.
I know many people will disagree with me and that's okay...I disagreed not that long ago also. When I learned how to Rightly Divide the Word of God things began to fall into place as far as dividing the kingdom age believers from the Grace age believers.
A
Peter and Paul were both under the new covenant. So i wouldnt say that. But there sure was a crossover period(which may be your point)
the Apostles were chosen to carry us from the Old covenant to the New. And it took a few years to do that as we
learn in Acts with food laws etc.
But your right the water baptism was a type/shadow of Salvation just like the cloud in the wilderness.
"One Lord" "One Spirit" "One Body" "One Hope" "One Father"......"One Baptism"
the Apostles were chosen to carry us from the Old covenant to the New. And it took a few years to do that as we
learn in Acts with food laws etc.
But your right the water baptism was a type/shadow of Salvation just like the cloud in the wilderness.
"One Lord" "One Spirit" "One Body" "One Hope" "One Father"......"One Baptism"
A
If i were to acknowlege baptism i would recongnize it as it was for Jesus according to the Law
To be sprinkled with water in order to be a priest. Since we are in a royal priesthood it sounds
good, that is if we were under the law. By the end of the book of acts two things are not present
Signs when a person got saved, and water baptism. Paul said he wasnt called to do that(whatever that means)
But its not a issue with me. I say do it for sure if your faith tells you to.
To be sprinkled with water in order to be a priest. Since we are in a royal priesthood it sounds
good, that is if we were under the law. By the end of the book of acts two things are not present
Signs when a person got saved, and water baptism. Paul said he wasnt called to do that(whatever that means)
But its not a issue with me. I say do it for sure if your faith tells you to.
Peter and Paul were both under the new covenant. So i wouldnt say that. But there sure was a crossover period(which may be your point)
the Apostles were chosen to carry us from the Old covenant to the New. And it took a few years to do that as we
learn in Acts with food laws etc.
But your right the water baptism was a type/shadow of Salvation just like the cloud in the wilderness.
"One Lord" "One Spirit" "One Body" "One Hope" "One Father"......"One Baptism"
the Apostles were chosen to carry us from the Old covenant to the New. And it took a few years to do that as we
learn in Acts with food laws etc.
But your right the water baptism was a type/shadow of Salvation just like the cloud in the wilderness.
"One Lord" "One Spirit" "One Body" "One Hope" "One Father"......"One Baptism"
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
Matthew 28
The Great Commission
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
this can't just be an interim commandment of some kind, could it?
The Great Commission
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
this can't just be an interim commandment of some kind, could it?
E
is water baptism no longer part of the Gospel?
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
Paul said he was sent to give the gospel. not baptize,
Rom 6 is spirit baptism, not water.
Baptism, Like the lords supper are commands God gives his believers to follow. Like many others..
If we are not born again by the washing of the spirit (titus 3:5) water baptism will do nothing but get us wet..
I really don't think that it matters either way. . .It doesn't hurt anything if the parents believe in infant baptism to have their infants baptized but that does not give the infant salvation. In the book of Acts wherein entire households were saved and baptized, I would believe that these households had infants included in their households. . .If an infant is not baptized but has believing parents then those believing parents cover that infants salvation until it reaches the age of accountability.
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now they are holy. [1 Cor. 7:14]
The believing parents are responsible for raising their children in a Christian atmosphere. . .then it is very likely the child will accept Christ when he/she is able to. Each individual must believe in Jesus Christ in order to receive salvation. . .an infant doesn't even know who Jesus is. . .our responsibility as parents is to teach our children so that they are informed when the time comes for them to make that decision.
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now they are holy. [1 Cor. 7:14]
The believing parents are responsible for raising their children in a Christian atmosphere. . .then it is very likely the child will accept Christ when he/she is able to. Each individual must believe in Jesus Christ in order to receive salvation. . .an infant doesn't even know who Jesus is. . .our responsibility as parents is to teach our children so that they are informed when the time comes for them to make that decision.
"Thus, Paul wrote in Philippians 3:3—"For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh."
Those who are resting in Christ as their Savior have the reality that was symbolized by circumcision, so that only they may be regarded as the truly circumcised now that the New Testament era has begun.
And so, first, our Lord Jesus put baptism in the place of circumcision as the entrance rite into the church.
Second, the Bible teaches that circumcision and baptism share the same basic spiritual meaning.
Third, the New Testament explicitly parallels circumcision and baptism; it even uses them interchangeably! For example, Colossians 2:11-12 so strongly links circumcision and baptism that it identifies them—"In [Christ] you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead."
In other words, your baptism was your Christian circumcision. The Berkeley Version clarifies the literal meaning of this verse: it says that you received the circumcision of Christ "when you were buried with him in baptism...." The New Testament inseparably links circumcision and baptism. And what God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants? < click
Those who are resting in Christ as their Savior have the reality that was symbolized by circumcision, so that only they may be regarded as the truly circumcised now that the New Testament era has begun.
And so, first, our Lord Jesus put baptism in the place of circumcision as the entrance rite into the church.
Second, the Bible teaches that circumcision and baptism share the same basic spiritual meaning.
Third, the New Testament explicitly parallels circumcision and baptism; it even uses them interchangeably! For example, Colossians 2:11-12 so strongly links circumcision and baptism that it identifies them—"In [Christ] you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead."
In other words, your baptism was your Christian circumcision. The Berkeley Version clarifies the literal meaning of this verse: it says that you received the circumcision of Christ "when you were buried with him in baptism...." The New Testament inseparably links circumcision and baptism. And what God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants? < click
A
is water baptism no longer part of the Gospel?
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
as fast as i do when people say they must observe the sabbath "day" or a feast etc.
I think there is a very fine alternative view that to me makes the most sense out of all
the types/shadows. But hey i do communion so im not going to talk about what a person
should do. I merely share my view which i prolly have a 100% chance of being wrong
i agree with nearly everything you wrote.
except that part about "until that time comes for them to make that decision".
and even that i don't disagree with entirely.
hopefully...(and this doesn't apply to me now, since i wasn't raised in a believing home - but found out after i opened the Word and believed...that i had been baptized as a baby - and i didn't raise my children in the faith either, since i was an adult myself)....hopefully the idea is the family (flesh family and Church family) raises the kids inside the faith...they all stay in the Church....
and the "decision" is hopefully not really a "decision" at any time....they believe from a child.
that's not to say they can't stray....people do. we know that.
my denom believes people must Abide in the Covenant (Christ) for life.
remain attached to the Vine.
but that if the parents and the church are faithful and keep watch, the children will remain.
and i most certainly see it since i've been a Lutheran - way more generational abiding than any other denom i attended.
hmm....
except that part about "until that time comes for them to make that decision".
and even that i don't disagree with entirely.
hopefully...(and this doesn't apply to me now, since i wasn't raised in a believing home - but found out after i opened the Word and believed...that i had been baptized as a baby - and i didn't raise my children in the faith either, since i was an adult myself)....hopefully the idea is the family (flesh family and Church family) raises the kids inside the faith...they all stay in the Church....
and the "decision" is hopefully not really a "decision" at any time....they believe from a child.
that's not to say they can't stray....people do. we know that.
my denom believes people must Abide in the Covenant (Christ) for life.
remain attached to the Vine.
but that if the parents and the church are faithful and keep watch, the children will remain.
and i most certainly see it since i've been a Lutheran - way more generational abiding than any other denom i attended.
hmm....
This area i seldom will be dogmatic. Soon as i hear someone believes water is a must i drop out
as fast as i do when people say they must observe the sabbath "day" or a feast etc.
I think there is a very fine alternative view that to me makes the most sense out of all
the types/shadows. But hey i do communion so im not going to talk about what a person
should do. I merely share my view which i prolly have a 100% chance of being wrong
as fast as i do when people say they must observe the sabbath "day" or a feast etc.
I think there is a very fine alternative view that to me makes the most sense out of all
the types/shadows. But hey i do communion so im not going to talk about what a person
should do. I merely share my view which i prolly have a 100% chance of being wrong
i knew this would be a tricky thread, but this is where i'm at.
the more i come to understand the more confirmation i'm getting.
Elin's threads on Leviticus are confirmation as well.
(more) hmmmm
A
"Thus, Paul wrote in Philippians 3:3—"For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh."
Those who are resting in Christ as their Savior have the reality that was symbolized by circumcision, so that only they may be regarded as the truly circumcised now that the New Testament era has begun.
But if circumcision was dropped because of the circumcision of the heart which it signified.
Why would there still be water when it signified the death/burial/resurrection in Christ through the Holyspirit?Acts 1:5
Ok im done....i hope. I dont like ruffling tradition. Parents were Lutherans.
And so, first, our Lord Jesus put baptism in the place of circumcision as the entrance rite into the church.
Second, the Bible teaches that circumcision and baptism share the same basic spiritual meaning.
Third, the New Testament explicitly parallels circumcision and baptism; it even uses them interchangeably! For example, Colossians 2:11-12 so strongly links circumcision and baptism that it identifies them—"In [Christ] you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead."
In other words, your baptism was your Christian circumcision. The Berkeley Version clarifies the literal meaning of this verse: it says that you received the circumcision of Christ "when you were buried with him in baptism...." The New Testament inseparably links circumcision and baptism. And what God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
Those who are resting in Christ as their Savior have the reality that was symbolized by circumcision, so that only they may be regarded as the truly circumcised now that the New Testament era has begun.
But if circumcision was dropped because of the circumcision of the heart which it signified.
Why would there still be water when it signified the death/burial/resurrection in Christ through the Holyspirit?Acts 1:5
Ok im done....i hope. I dont like ruffling tradition. Parents were Lutherans.
And so, first, our Lord Jesus put baptism in the place of circumcision as the entrance rite into the church.
Second, the Bible teaches that circumcision and baptism share the same basic spiritual meaning.
Third, the New Testament explicitly parallels circumcision and baptism; it even uses them interchangeably! For example, Colossians 2:11-12 so strongly links circumcision and baptism that it identifies them—"In [Christ] you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead."
In other words, your baptism was your Christian circumcision. The Berkeley Version clarifies the literal meaning of this verse: it says that you received the circumcision of Christ "when you were buried with him in baptism...." The New Testament inseparably links circumcision and baptism. And what God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
A
ehehe....same here.
i knew this would be a tricky thread, but this is where i'm at.
the more i come to understand the more confirmation i'm getting.
Elin's threads on Leviticus are confirmation as well.
(more) hmmmm
i knew this would be a tricky thread, but this is where i'm at.
the more i come to understand the more confirmation i'm getting.
Elin's threads on Leviticus are confirmation as well.
(more) hmmmm
But its ok with me that you do. I see nothing wrong with it.
Its just some folks(im sure not you) cant see the antitype from the type.
Thats why the thread is good i rekon
In otherwords....what does baptism signify?
T
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants?
Larry Wilson
Does it surprise you to learn that even though we're presbyterians, we're also baptists? The fact is, we do baptize. Our disagreement with our baptistic brethren isn't over whether we should baptize; it's over whom we should baptize. We baptize professing believers and their children. Why do we baptize their children?
As an aside, let me just say that we're not alone. As a matter of fact, infant baptism is the historic Christian practice! In his book Outlines of Theology, A. A. Hodge sums it up like this: "The practice of infant baptism is an institution which exists as a fact, and prevails throughout the universal church, with the exception of the modern Baptists, whose origin can be definitely traced to the anabaptists of Germany, about A.D. 1537...." Then, as proof, he cites Irenaeus (who was born before the death of the apostle John), Justin Martyr (138 A.D.), Tertullian (born 160 A.D.), Cyprian (253 A.D.), and Augustine (born 354 A.D.). Hodge concludes: "...infant baptism has prevailed (a) from the apostolic age, (b) in all sections of the ancient church, (c) uninterruptedly to the present time, (d) in every one of the great historical churches of the Reformation, while its impugners date since the Reformation." Now that's interesting. It encourages us. But that's not why we baptize infants.
The bottom line is, we baptize the children of believers in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church because we firmly believe that God's Word tells us to! To correctly answer the question, "Should we baptize infants?" you have to look to God's Word as your authoritative guide. You have to ask, "Is infant baptism biblical?"
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants? < click
Larry Wilson
Does it surprise you to learn that even though we're presbyterians, we're also baptists? The fact is, we do baptize. Our disagreement with our baptistic brethren isn't over whether we should baptize; it's over whom we should baptize. We baptize professing believers and their children. Why do we baptize their children?
As an aside, let me just say that we're not alone. As a matter of fact, infant baptism is the historic Christian practice! In his book Outlines of Theology, A. A. Hodge sums it up like this: "The practice of infant baptism is an institution which exists as a fact, and prevails throughout the universal church, with the exception of the modern Baptists, whose origin can be definitely traced to the anabaptists of Germany, about A.D. 1537...." Then, as proof, he cites Irenaeus (who was born before the death of the apostle John), Justin Martyr (138 A.D.), Tertullian (born 160 A.D.), Cyprian (253 A.D.), and Augustine (born 354 A.D.). Hodge concludes: "...infant baptism has prevailed (a) from the apostolic age, (b) in all sections of the ancient church, (c) uninterruptedly to the present time, (d) in every one of the great historical churches of the Reformation, while its impugners date since the Reformation." Now that's interesting. It encourages us. But that's not why we baptize infants.
The bottom line is, we baptize the children of believers in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church because we firmly believe that God's Word tells us to! To correctly answer the question, "Should we baptize infants?" you have to look to God's Word as your authoritative guide. You have to ask, "Is infant baptism biblical?"
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants? < click
Error made by many pastors, is the baptizing of infants and children. The Bible does not support this; in fact the Bible only gives examples of men and women being baptized. "But when they believed Phillip preaching the things concerning the Kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." (Acts 8:12): "And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.” And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism. Then Paul said, “John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7).
Listen people, only adults are to be baptized, because once you go under the water in Jesus’ name, you are then under the blood of Jesus and the Lord is going to hold you responsible. Woe be unto anyone, who takes the Lord's name in vain! He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. How much of a sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the spirit of the grace? For we know him that hath said, "Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense," saith the Lord. And again, the Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:28-31).
Why would there still be water when it signified the death/burial/resurrection in Christ through the Holyspirit?Acts 1:5
Ok im done....i hope. I dont like ruffling tradition. Parents were Lutherans.
Ok im done....i hope. I dont like ruffling tradition. Parents were Lutherans.
edit scary picture out - wow.
when my current pastor asked me if i had been born into a church family - baptized (the only one to ever ask me this btw - a ton of other churches) after my sorry woeful tale of this:
it all came together.
my whole stupid life made sense. 40 years of wandering blind.
that's my story.
whether we go all the way into predestination or whatever i have no clue.
thankfully i don't have to tie that into a knot as a Lutheran...but there you go.
my question was always - what's wrong? why am i blind? help me help me - what's the problem in this stupid life?...then BAM. now it's looking backwards to see what happened.
and it's making way more sense.
The Lord being faithful to a prodigal who didn't know they were a prodigal
in any case....i'm staying put with it now.
if i had kids now, i'd do it this way for sure.
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