Is infant baptism biblical?
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you mean why baptize infants?
or why baptize anyone?
sorry....i lost track.
there are opinions that we ought not even baptize with water...so not sure what your postion is.
sorry bookends
zone
or why baptize anyone?
sorry....i lost track.
there are opinions that we ought not even baptize with water...so not sure what your postion is.
sorry bookends
zone
Baptism in water is biblical, so is such baptism of infants.
God is not waiting for man.
BBL.
okay...but i didn't even realize there were so many various definitions of Baptism until lately.
i always believed and still believe we are baptized according to the Gospel commandment, and receive the Holy Spirit.
well, i'm not sure what you mean by Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click or any other source, or Biblical sources.
so why bother with it at all if it is just a symbol?
i don't think you're suggesting do not be baptized, but is it just a public declaration?
if a person 30 years old professes Christ and believes but 10 years later haven't been baptized by water - would it suggest anything to you about what they believe(d)?
i always believed and still believe we are baptized according to the Gospel commandment, and receive the Holy Spirit.
well, i'm not sure what you mean by Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click or any other source, or Biblical sources.
so why bother with it at all if it is just a symbol?
i don't think you're suggesting do not be baptized, but is it just a public declaration?
if a person 30 years old professes Christ and believes but 10 years later haven't been baptized by water - would it suggest anything to you about what they believe(d)?
M
Old thread but I have an issue with this statement I found:
Water baptism has never been part of the gospel. If it is it would be a gospel of works. not faith.
Is not The Gospel According to St John still applicable in faith?:
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
Those are the words of Jesus according to St John, not mine
Water baptism has never been part of the gospel. If it is it would be a gospel of works. not faith.
Is not The Gospel According to St John still applicable in faith?:
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
Those are the words of Jesus according to St John, not mine
Didn't read all the posts but want to still share my "story" about this.
Im baptised as lutherian way when I was baby but didn't really understood the importance of it. I was teached that im child of God and baptism is when Im taken as such, but I thought: did that mean that people who don't get baptised are not? God is with everyone after all.
At age of 17 I had a vision where Jesus was asking me to follow him as was teached in the church I was in that moment and He pointed also that I should have myself baptised. I was teached as child both Lutherian and one other way of christianity so I took it seriously yet afraid. I asked that If it's ok (I believed that anything is possible) if I have 6 months to learn what i still feel to miss and what He sees fit me to learn and we return this matter in certain place and time.
Before I was able to finish I saw light yellow paper front of me and as I "spoke" my words got physical form and they were writing themselves on the paper. It was formal agreement of what I just have requested and I was asked "Is this an agreement" I thought a moment just to be sure what I was signing and said "yes" When I said that I saw my name leaving my mouth as the words before and be written as signature to bottom left corner. Then Jesus same way "wrote" His full name on bottom right corner (By full I mean the full name with absolute and perfect meaning who and what He is. It was written ing language we do not speak but I was granted ability to read and understand it totally.) Then the vision disappeared
6 months later in the place I was mentioned it was friday evening I was walking towards my tent when I suddently had vision of this same paper of agreement front of me. I recogniced it immediately and I was asked "As I have promised in my word, and as your heart proves to be right, I ask you: Do you want to follow me?" The formality of the guestion made me laugh little bit until I was able to say yes. "Then hurry, tell your camp leader that they include you too, hurry there's not much time"
This experience have made me think that God put huge weight on baptism and also how it's done and what it means.
Im baptised as lutherian way when I was baby but didn't really understood the importance of it. I was teached that im child of God and baptism is when Im taken as such, but I thought: did that mean that people who don't get baptised are not? God is with everyone after all.
At age of 17 I had a vision where Jesus was asking me to follow him as was teached in the church I was in that moment and He pointed also that I should have myself baptised. I was teached as child both Lutherian and one other way of christianity so I took it seriously yet afraid. I asked that If it's ok (I believed that anything is possible) if I have 6 months to learn what i still feel to miss and what He sees fit me to learn and we return this matter in certain place and time.
Before I was able to finish I saw light yellow paper front of me and as I "spoke" my words got physical form and they were writing themselves on the paper. It was formal agreement of what I just have requested and I was asked "Is this an agreement" I thought a moment just to be sure what I was signing and said "yes" When I said that I saw my name leaving my mouth as the words before and be written as signature to bottom left corner. Then Jesus same way "wrote" His full name on bottom right corner (By full I mean the full name with absolute and perfect meaning who and what He is. It was written ing language we do not speak but I was granted ability to read and understand it totally.) Then the vision disappeared
6 months later in the place I was mentioned it was friday evening I was walking towards my tent when I suddently had vision of this same paper of agreement front of me. I recogniced it immediately and I was asked "As I have promised in my word, and as your heart proves to be right, I ask you: Do you want to follow me?" The formality of the guestion made me laugh little bit until I was able to say yes. "Then hurry, tell your camp leader that they include you too, hurry there's not much time"
This experience have made me think that God put huge weight on baptism and also how it's done and what it means.
7
hahahahaha i like that!! mate, i think ANY CHRISTIAN would have to be out of their mind to think that baptism is all that's needed to get to heaven. I think it is necessary, but not a sole necessity. The Church I belong to DOES NOT teach that baptism alone saves, and neither does any Church that preaches truth. But there are alot of churches out there these days that just preach whatever suits them.
Different people have differing interpretations to the verse you have quoted from John.
It is fair to say though, there is scripture that appears at first glance to indicate forgiveness of sins and salvation hinge on water Baptism
Mark1:4 states:
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins
So we could sday at first glance of reading that verse a person must be baptised in water to receive forgiveness of sin, however in the next chapter:
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralysed man, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’
Mark2:5
No water Baptism first
The same with Zaccheaus, Jesus told him salvation had come to his home without him firstly receiving water Baptism
Then there is Acts 2:38
However, a few chapters later Cornelius and his family are filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues PRIOR to being baptised in water
Ultimately acceptance by God comes down to a sincere repentance, caused by the Holy Spirit convicting you of your sin. If you then cry out tol God for forgiveness, and ask Jesus into your life as Lord and Saviour, believing he, the Son of God died for you on the cross, you are saved. The Holy Spirit immediately enters your life and writes the good and Holy laws of God on your heart and mind. Your heart has been changed, you now vwant from the heart to obey God, you have been born again. And if the Spirit dwells in you, you are saved(Rom8:9)
It is fair to say though, there is scripture that appears at first glance to indicate forgiveness of sins and salvation hinge on water Baptism
Mark1:4 states:
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins
So we could sday at first glance of reading that verse a person must be baptised in water to receive forgiveness of sin, however in the next chapter:
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralysed man, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’
Mark2:5
No water Baptism first
The same with Zaccheaus, Jesus told him salvation had come to his home without him firstly receiving water Baptism
Then there is Acts 2:38
However, a few chapters later Cornelius and his family are filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues PRIOR to being baptised in water
Ultimately acceptance by God comes down to a sincere repentance, caused by the Holy Spirit convicting you of your sin. If you then cry out tol God for forgiveness, and ask Jesus into your life as Lord and Saviour, believing he, the Son of God died for you on the cross, you are saved. The Holy Spirit immediately enters your life and writes the good and Holy laws of God on your heart and mind. Your heart has been changed, you now vwant from the heart to obey God, you have been born again. And if the Spirit dwells in you, you are saved(Rom8:9)
E
born of water does not mean baptism. that is an interpretation which does not fit that passage.
that which is born of flesh (water) is flesh, that which is born of spirit (spirit) is spirit.
Jesus told John how to be born again in john 3; 16.. whoever believes in him has eternal life.. no mention of baptism, if jesus had meant nicodemus to think baptism was reuqired he would have told him, he who believed and is baptized. he did not/./.
receiving eternal life is being born again.
that which is born of flesh (water) is flesh, that which is born of spirit (spirit) is spirit.
Jesus told John how to be born again in john 3; 16.. whoever believes in him has eternal life.. no mention of baptism, if jesus had meant nicodemus to think baptism was reuqired he would have told him, he who believed and is baptized. he did not/./.
receiving eternal life is being born again.
Yeah, why baptist infants.
So a believer doesn't receive the HS upon conversion? Receiving the HS is what Christ does upon conversion: Man has not involvement with it accept by the confession of his heart and mouth.
Joh_1:33 And I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water, that One said to me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon Him, He is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
Does Circumcision in OT = Baptism of the Holy Spirit? There is only one baptism. Baptism of the HS only happens upon repentance, belief and faith in the Work of Christ.
The indwelling of the HS once someone receives Christ as Lord and savior.
1 Corinthians 6:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
If you want to experience the true meaning of water baptism, IMO, go to N. Korea, Iran, or where ever Christians are being persecuted for their faith, and be baptized publicly before those who might give you up to the authorities for a beating and possible death. Water baptism today I feel has no more significance then a literal foot washing [which is also absurd, and I currently go to a church that has these but I don't participate, I'd much rather do what the symbol represents like helping a brother or sister out in times of need and having common courtesy. What good does for the person to wash somebodies feet, then do nothing beneficial in ordinary daily living-hypocrite, false sense of work for the brethren (sorry for my rant)]..Most Churches today, do their water baptisms indoors in front of other believers, some confession or witness, doesn't take much guts or faith to do that...and Yes I'm feeling guilty of this myself. Water baptism in the 1st Church had a profound effect of the believer and the observer, because the believer knew this act was picking up his/her cross and when observers see this, hearts are changed.
No, I'd be more concerned for the one who was baptized upon or soon after conversion, or a supposed conversion, who lead a continuous life of carnality, which equals no change in living at all from his previous life.
I'm sure I'll GET IT now from you all...
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A
Yeah, why baptist infants.
So a believer doesn't receive the HS upon conversion? Receiving the HS is what Christ does upon conversion: Man has not involvement with it accept by the confession of his heart and mouth.
Joh_1:33 And I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water, that One said to me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon Him, He is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
Does Circumcision in OT = Baptism of the Holy Spirit? There is only one baptism. Baptism of the HS only happens upon repentance, belief and faith in the Work of Christ.
The indwelling of the HS once someone receives Christ as Lord and savior.
1 Corinthians 6:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
If you want to experience the true meaning of water baptism, IMO, go to N. Korea, Iran, or where ever Christians are being persecuted for their faith, and be baptized publicly before those who might give you up to the authorities for a beating and possible death. Water baptism today I feel has no more significance then a literal foot washing [which is also absurd, and I currently go to a church that has these but I don't participate, I'd much rather do what the symbol represents like helping a brother or sister out in times of need and having common courtesy. What good does for the person to wash somebodies feet, then do nothing beneficial in ordinary daily living-hypocrite, false sense of work for the brethren (sorry for my rant)]..Most Churches today, do their water baptisms indoors in front of other believers, some confession or witness, doesn't take much guts or faith to do that...and Yes I'm feeling guilty of this myself. Water baptism in the 1st Church had a profound effect of the believer and the observer, because the believer knew this act was picking up his/her cross and when observers see this, hearts are changed.
No, I'd be more concerned for the one who was baptized upon or soon after conversion, or a supposed conversion, who lead a continuous life of carnality, which equals no change in living at all from his previous life.
I'm sure I'll GET IT now from you all...
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants?
Larry Wilson
Does it surprise you to learn that even though we're presbyterians, we're also baptists? The fact is, we do baptize. Our disagreement with our baptistic brethren isn't over whether we should baptize; it's over whom we should baptize. We baptize professing believers and their children. Why do we baptize their children?
As an aside, let me just say that we're not alone. As a matter of fact, infant baptism is the historic Christian practice! In his book Outlines of Theology, A. A. Hodge sums it up like this: "The practice of infant baptism is an institution which exists as a fact, and prevails throughout the universal church, with the exception of the modern Baptists, whose origin can be definitely traced to the anabaptists of Germany, about A.D. 1537...." Then, as proof, he cites Irenaeus (who was born before the death of the apostle John), Justin Martyr (138 A.D.), Tertullian (born 160 A.D.), Cyprian (253 A.D.), and Augustine (born 354 A.D.). Hodge concludes: "...infant baptism has prevailed (a) from the apostolic age, (b) in all sections of the ancient church, (c) uninterruptedly to the present time, (d) in every one of the great historical churches of the Reformation, while its impugners date since the Reformation." Now that's interesting. It encourages us. But that's not why we baptize infants.
The bottom line is, we baptize the children of believers in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church because we firmly believe that God's Word tells us to! To correctly answer the question, "Should we baptize infants?" you have to look to God's Word as your authoritative guide. You have to ask, "Is infant baptism biblical?"
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants? < click
Larry Wilson
Does it surprise you to learn that even though we're presbyterians, we're also baptists? The fact is, we do baptize. Our disagreement with our baptistic brethren isn't over whether we should baptize; it's over whom we should baptize. We baptize professing believers and their children. Why do we baptize their children?
As an aside, let me just say that we're not alone. As a matter of fact, infant baptism is the historic Christian practice! In his book Outlines of Theology, A. A. Hodge sums it up like this: "The practice of infant baptism is an institution which exists as a fact, and prevails throughout the universal church, with the exception of the modern Baptists, whose origin can be definitely traced to the anabaptists of Germany, about A.D. 1537...." Then, as proof, he cites Irenaeus (who was born before the death of the apostle John), Justin Martyr (138 A.D.), Tertullian (born 160 A.D.), Cyprian (253 A.D.), and Augustine (born 354 A.D.). Hodge concludes: "...infant baptism has prevailed (a) from the apostolic age, (b) in all sections of the ancient church, (c) uninterruptedly to the present time, (d) in every one of the great historical churches of the Reformation, while its impugners date since the Reformation." Now that's interesting. It encourages us. But that's not why we baptize infants.
The bottom line is, we baptize the children of believers in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church because we firmly believe that God's Word tells us to! To correctly answer the question, "Should we baptize infants?" you have to look to God's Word as your authoritative guide. You have to ask, "Is infant baptism biblical?"
Why Does the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Baptize Infants? < click
but i didn't ask about that.
carnality.
there are people who don't believe in baptism in water, but a baptism by laying on of hands or that baptism ceased, or some variation who live carnally.
i wasn't addressing carnality exactly....we could, but it wasn't the point i was trying to get across...though i'm doing poorly at it.
i wondered about water baptism, primarily.
and specifically in regards the New Covenant church where families abide in the church and raise their families in it.
it seems logical to me, and i do witness myself what i see at my denom - that those who have been abiding for multi-generations are more set apart in their ways of life. they do not live as the world lives.
so it was actually in that context i was asking about infant baptism.
families and households who abide.
New Covenant abiding, as i witness it now in the church i attend.
but ty
zone
carnality.
there are people who don't believe in baptism in water, but a baptism by laying on of hands or that baptism ceased, or some variation who live carnally.
i wasn't addressing carnality exactly....we could, but it wasn't the point i was trying to get across...though i'm doing poorly at it.
i wondered about water baptism, primarily.
and specifically in regards the New Covenant church where families abide in the church and raise their families in it.
it seems logical to me, and i do witness myself what i see at my denom - that those who have been abiding for multi-generations are more set apart in their ways of life. they do not live as the world lives.
so it was actually in that context i was asking about infant baptism.
families and households who abide.
New Covenant abiding, as i witness it now in the church i attend.
but ty
zone
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