Must Shortly Come To Pass

GRA · Mar 4, 2013

And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. ~ Revelation 22:6

Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ~ Revelation 22:7

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. ~ Revelation 22:10

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ~ Revelation 22:12

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. ~ Revelation 22:20

O.K. - let me see if I have this...

'shortly' means "shortly"...

'quickly' means "quickly"...

Everything in Revelation is past...

Jesus has already returned...

Babylon has fallen...

The Wrath of God has been poured out onto the earth...

The Great White Throne Judgment Day is over...

The rewards have all been passed out...

Hell has been cast into the lake of fire...

We are now living in the new heaven and new earth...

New Jerusalem has come down from heaven...

There is no more sun or moon...

The Lamb has married His wife...

Consider:

Strong's G1096 for "come to pass" in Revelation 1:1

1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made

When I cannot find a specific definition tied to a particular usage - I generally use the first one, which is usually the most common usage. And, since most of these definitions carry with it the idea of "beginning and continuing" anyway -- I am going to suggest that the true "sense and tense" of the phrase 'Must Shortly Come To Pass' actually means "Must Shortly Begin To Come To Pass"...

And - yes - the phrase "shortly come to pass" in Revelation 1:1 and the phrase "shortly be done" in Revelation 22:6 are the same in the Greek.

"Something to think about..."

Bookends · Mar 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I'd like to reverse that question to you my friend.

Bookends · Mar 4, 2013

TomL said:

try this, Christ came in Judgment, but will yet return again to bring in the manifestation of the eternal state.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

Not one person in this thread has said Jesus has returned. That is the problem with many people. They don't understand what amillennialism is. We do not believe Christ has returned to earth. We do not believe Judgemenet Day has happened. Yet, some people refuse to try to understand the belief and make illogical assumptions and accusations which tells me that it is pointless to continue this type of conversation with people who don't even understand the beliefs of their opposing side in the first place.
It would be more beneficial and educational for me to argue with a turnip!

zone · Mar 4, 2013

Elizabeth619 said:

Not one person in this thread has said Jesus has returned. That is the problem with many people. They don't understand what amillennialism is. We do not believe Christ has returned to earth. We do not believe Judgemenet Day has happened. Yet, some people refuse to try to understand the belief and make illogical assumptions and accusations which tells me that it is pointless to continue this type of conversation with people who don't even understand the beliefs of their opposing side in the first place.
It would be more beneficial and educational to argue with a turnip!

beth...the OP has said Jesus will not return

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

GRA said:

And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. ~ Revelation 22:6

Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ~ Revelation 22:7

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. ~ Revelation 22:10

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ~ Revelation 22:12

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. ~ Revelation 22:20

O.K. - let me see if I have this...

'shortly' means "shortly"...

'quickly' means "quickly"...

Everything in Revelation is past...

Jesus has already returned...

Babylon has fallen...

The Wrath of God has been poured out onto the earth...

The Great White Throne Judgment Day is over...

The rewards have all been passed out...

Hell has been cast into the lake of fire...

We are now living in the new heaven and new earth...

New Jerusalem has come down from heaven...

There is no more sun or moon...

The Lamb has married His wife...

Consider:

Strong's G1096 for "come to pass" in Revelation 1:1

1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made

When I cannot find a specific definition tied to a particular usage - I generally use the first one, which is usually the most common usage. And, since most of these definitions carry with it the idea of "beginning and continuing" anyway -- I am going to suggest that the true "sense and tense" of the phrase 'Must Shortly Come To Pass' actually means "Must Shortly Begin To Come To Pass"...

And - yes - the phrase "shortly come to pass" in Revelation 1:1 and the phrase "shortly be done" in Revelation 22:6 are the same in the Greek.

"Something to think about..."

I actually looked up the verbs shortly and quickly

Shortly means soon, with speed

Quickly means without delay.

also. your correct with the greek take place.. I have multiple greek lexicons on my computer. and they all say the same thing. to begin, to come into existance (ie to be)

something which comes into existance does not mean it is finished at the same time, A baby comes into existance when it is born. but should live many years.

thanks for this good find.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

Bookends said:

As I said to our mutual friend.

Maybe it is, I just can;t see it.. I do not see scripture supporting this view. just like you can;t see it support my view.. But not worth losing a friendship over

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

Elizabeth619 said:

I think you missed the jist of his post.

He used 1: 1 and 22: 6 and 22: 10 where it says shortly come to pass

and rev 22: 12 and 22: 7 where the lord says he will come quickly.

so if the things which must "shortly take place" must be in their generation, (in rev 1:1, 22: 6 and 10) then according to the SAME INTERPRETATION of the word in 22: 7 and 12.. then Christ should have came in their generation. since they both mean prety much the same thing (same base word)

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

zone said:

oh...
NEVERMIND!

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

zone said:

I guess if the op is right, there will be no ressurection then. and this life is all we have, we should live it up then, we have nothing to look forward to.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

Jesus won't return?
Um...... ok.....
Well,....
ermmmmmm......
If this is Heaven I am kinda disappointed.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I went off on GRA thinking he was referring to the rest of us amillenialists(i cannot spell that word)

SORRY GRA!

Anyway, ummmmmm. im confused.
Did I miss the world burning up and stuff?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

Elizabeth619 said:

lol.. Maybe we are all living in someone elses dream.. and non of this is real. and Christ did come quickly (in their generation) like all those things happened shortly

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Im curious about this now. How can judgement day have come and gone?
We not s'posed to be here!!!!!!

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

Elizabeth619 said:

Maybe the first judgment day came and went, and God started a new race of humans,, and we made the same mistakes the first ones did

Bookends · Mar 4, 2013

TomL said:

Have you noticed that everything is in bondage to decay, including our sun? Some day, hypothetically speaking, if the earth lasts forever, but the sun will burn out, what will replace the sun? Will God make a new one? God will remake the universe, including the earth, an in this sense the earth will last forever, it's the new earth and new heavens.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

OK!
Time for one of those "crazy" Church of Christer views on this...

Does the word "forever" in Ecclesiastes 1:4 mean "everlasting?"

"One generation passes away, and another generation comes; but the earth abides forever" (Ecclesiastes 1:4).

The Hebrew word 'owlam refers to something that is of a long, indefinite period. It is a period of time which you cannot say for certainty when it comes to an end. To see this, look a few verses later to Ecclesiastes 1:10, "Is there anything of which it may be said, "See, this is new"? It has already been in ancient times before us." The same word, 'owlam is translated as "ancient times." The writer is not stating that the world has been in existence for an infinite amount of time, but that it has been around so long that it is hard to say precisely when it began.
God stated in Isaiah 42:14, "I have held My peace a long time, I have been still and restrained Myself. Now I will cry like a woman in labor, I will pant and gasp at once." The same word, 'owlam, is translated at "a long time." In this verse God is not saying He would never speak. In fact, He states that now He would cry out. He had held His peace for a long, indefinite time, but that time came to an end. Therefore, we see that something "forever" can come to an end.
This is also seen in the sacrifices of the Old Testament, "And it shall be for Aaron and his sons, and they shall eat it in a holy place; for it is most holy to him from the offerings of the LORD made by fire, by a perpetual statute" (Leviticus 24:9). (The word 'owlam, is translated as "perpetual.") Though perpetual, those sacrifices came to an end (Hebrews 9:25-28).
In the same way, the temple was built to stand forever (II Chronicles 2:4), but that temple no longer stands.

Is this incorrect? I think NOT!

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

I still like Tom. He cool.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 4, 2013

6409 עוֹלָם (ʿô·lām): adv. [oth n.masc.]; ≡ Str 5769; TWOT 1631a—1. LN 67.78–67.117 everlasting, forever, eternity, i.e., pertaining to an unlimited duration of time, usually with a focus on the future (Ge 3:22); 2. LN 67.78–67.117 ancient, old, i.e., existing for a long time in the relative past (1Sa 27:8; Ps 119:52); 3. LN 67.78–67.117 lasting, for a duration, i.e., an undetermined duration of time without reference to other points of time, with a focus of no anticipated end, but nevertheless may have limits (Nu 25:13; Jer 18:16), note: for MT text in 2Ch 33:7, see 6409

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

seems like forever in ecc might not mean forever, but for a long duration of time.

zone · Mar 4, 2013

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

soooo.....this hasnt happened yet.

Must Shortly Come To Pass

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