What does "limited atonement" mean?

[Elin]

lol.. I did not bring up the question of a loving God creating people who will go to hell. I was agreeing with you.. And you want me to remove something which was your own argument?

you have not answered the question as to which one would prove a loving God.

is there a reason you can't do this?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Is there a reason you can't answer this?

The choices you presented to choose from as an answer were limited by the parameters of your personal reference points.

My solution is not to put lipstick to the "odiousness," but not to create them at all, and thereby remove the "odiousness."

 

[mark54]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Is there a reason you can't answer this?

The choices you presented to choose from as an answer were limited by the parameters of your personal reference points.

My solution is not to put lipstick to the "odiousness," but not to create them at all, and thereby remove the "odiousness."

Proverbs26:12

 

[peacefulbeliever]

you cant have a limited atonement with "all" those "all" words in the bible
I mean it cant mean "all" not literally. jk
I agree sometimes "all" cant mean "all" without exception.
But then we surely have to be careful with interpreting the meaning.

Most people just read all without it mattering but I could see that it mattered here. . .lol. . . .a choice still has to be made and when that choice is faith in Christ. . . then it don't matter! and the atonement is not limited in that sense. . . .

 

[GreenNnice]

The only thing odious is your warped view of God's conditional love to mankind

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Is there a reason you can't answer this?

The choices you presented to choose from as an answer were limited by the parameters of your personal reference points.

My solution is not to put lipstick to the "odiousness," but not to create them at all, and thereby remove the "odiousness."

so you can;t answer. Thanks, enough said.

Beating my wife? what kind of person are you????

 

[zone]

So God knowing in advance they would reject Christ and be sent to hell, is loving in creating them anyway for hell?.

again...this has been asked many times.
it goes back to something like this - "he looked down through time and saw they would reject him, so he made (X=unknown number of) changes, then proceeded anyway"....that's how i am left to interpret it, anyway.

this has to be the conclusion, because Judas (or someone very much like him) was portrayed as rejecting Jesus was recorded before it happened. as were roman soldiers gambling for the clothes.

so ya....i dunno.
if i could see evidence for the precreation freewill determines the Plan, i would seriously consider it. but i don't see it coming from anyone. been trying to find it in church father's writings too.

not so far.

 

[crossnote]

Somehow human reason falls far short of God's sovereign and eternal wisdom. We are left to His mercy found in Christ alone.

 

[Elin]

Somehow human reason falls far short of God's sovereign and eternal wisdom. We are left to His mercy found in Christ alone.

Oh, this is not an issue Biblically.

This is just to point out that election doesn't create any problem that omniscience in creation doesn't also create.

So election of some and not all doesn't make God unjust any more than omniscience in creation does.

 

[jimmydiggs]

which times doesn't all mean all mike?

When it doesn't fit with what we expect.

Like Acts 2:44
[h=3]Acts 2:44[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]All the believers were together and had everything in common.

 

[jimmydiggs]

The only thing odious is your warped view of God's conditional love to mankind

As opposed to your warped view of God's unconditional love?

After all, if you don't obey enough, you just may not receive his Grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, this is not an issue Biblically.

This is just to point out that election doesn't create any problem that omniscience in creation doesn't also create.

So election of some and not all doesn't make God unjust any more than omniscience in creation does.

wow.. is this so? sorry, But I have to respectfully disagree, it makes a HUGE difference, especially when it comes to proving the love of God.. which was his soul purpose to begin with!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As opposed to your warped view of God's unconditional love?

After all, if you don't obey enough, you just may not receive his Grace.

with Gods view of unconditional love, you do not have to obey enough, Just call out on him and you will be saved.. Don't call out on him, and he still loves ya, But his justice can not over rule his love. God is perfect love, but he is also a perfect judge.. he can not go against his own character. so he must judge, But he loved the WORLD so much he made propitiation in the form of Christ. Not only for us(those saved), but THE WHOLE WORLD (saved and unsaved)

That is why no one will ever be able to argue against the love of God again.

 

[jimmydiggs]

with Gods view of unconditional love, you do not have to obey enough, Just call out on him and you will be saved.. Don't call out on him, and he still loves ya, But his justice can not over rule his love. God is perfect love, but he is also a perfect judge.. he can not go against his own character. so he must judge, But he loved the WORLD so much he made propitiation in the form of Christ. Not only for us(those saved), but THE WHOLE WORLD (saved and unsaved)

That is why no one will ever be able to argue against the love of God again.

I think maybe you misunderstand my post. That is mostly my fault, sarcasm often does not translate into text well. Green has on occaison made remarks that boil down to a grace of merit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think maybe you misunderstand my post. That is mostly my fault, sarcasm often does not translate into text well. Green has on occaison made remarks that boil down to a grace of merit.

I understood. I just took it further

 

[Abiding]

which times doesn't all mean all mike?

Im thinking off hand. All has to be understood in its context. Sometimes its hard.
But i think the Holyspirit expected us to be "reasonable" people sometimes. ha

"For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection out of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. But each in his own order" (1Cor 15:21-23,

1 Cor 13:7 7Beareth all things,believeth all things,hopeth all things,endureth all things.

! cor 9:22 22 To the weak became I as weak,that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, thatI might by all means save some.

taken these verses completely literal would present some problems.

 

[Abiding]

Well, regarding the unregenerate, cut off is not the only issue.

Their spiritual powerlessness, dispositiosn in natural rebellion to God, inability to see and hear the things of God, distaste for the things of God are also serious issues.

Well sure they are but we are not left alone. The Holyspirit works in our lives right out of the gate.
He has many ways to draw us. Some think drawing is a one time thing. I think its a life long thing
until your reprobate. And He gives up on us.

 

[crossnote]

Oh, this is not an issue Biblically.

This is just to point out that election doesn't create any problem that omniscience in creation doesn't also create.

So election of some and not all doesn't make God unjust any more than omniscience in creation does.

I agree, I would ask those that make the emotional appeal of God's love, why, if He loves all, didn't elect/predestinate all?
But I imagine that would take us back down a corridor of time emanating out of eternity...if such a corridor exists.

 

[Abiding]

So God knowing in advance they would reject Christ and be sent to hell, is loving in creating them anyway for hell?

You haven't removed the problem.

You've just put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

Maybe so but it doesnt give you the right to cherry pick verses out of context
and form a version that makes some feel cool to say God is Sovereign and is glorified
most in the damnation of folks He didnt give a chance at all.

Thats putting the pig .....wait im at a total loss for a comeback so ill put it this
way "deal with it". Rather than bring dishonor and shame to the Lords name.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, I would ask those that make the emotional appeal of God's love, why, if He loves all, didn't elect/predestinate all?
But I imagine that would take us back down a corridor of time emanating out of eternity...if such a corridor exists.

there would be a problem with this though

Does a loving God force people agianst their will to chose to trust him?? or does he lovingly allow them to chose to reject him, although he does everything he can to show them the truth? and everything he could to save them.

If God forced everyone to believe, it would be just as bad as the fatalistic view. we would all still just be robots, forced to do the will of a dictator by the name of God. and satan's lie would be found to be truth, and he was right to rebell.. as were all of us humans, because God does not have our best interest at heart,

 

[Abiding]

You haven't removed the "odiousness" of knowingly creating people who would go to hell.

You're still putting lipstick on the "odious."

Its noones job to cover it up Elin. Noone!! and its a shame to even try