What does "limited atonement" mean?

[psychomom]

I consider myself a synergist. And yes that means i believe i assented to the gospel.(scripture commands that)
After im saved i believe we work together with God. Co laborers

1 Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
2 Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that you receive not the grace of God in vain.

synergy doesnt mean i can save myself or keep myself. but the job is synergistic. which simply means
we work together.

the cliche:
without Him we cant
without us He wont.

I have tons of saved up writing on monergism and synergism.
But i believe there couldnt be a saved but as of by fire when our works are reviewed
if God alone did our sanctifying. John 15 i think and 2 Peter 1:1-11 bring that out.

I gotcha, Mike.

I hope what I said came off as the observation it was meant to be, and not as a criticism.

love you,
el

 

[crossnote]

cool i saw in the other forum your a poet

Yeah, but lately I have an aversion to poet 'ghettos' and rather sprawl out in these open spaces.

 

[Cobus]

I always like the BIBLE'S answer for ALL questions...
Who will be SAVED?
Matthew 10:22... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
As I am just about the only one that undrstands this END to be the END OF THE OLD MAN, I will not go deeper.
And why would they be hated of all men? Not holy men, MEN? I guess becasue they are not like the OLD and it is FOR HIS NAME SAKE.

This is so much proof that the Spirit LEADS before HE FILLS... Salvation is the FILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT... We are only SAVED IF WE ARE NOT LIVING IN US, BUT CHRIST JESUS IS!!!! Jesus said... The slave does not abide forever but the MASTER does... DEEP but just think on it and PRAY!


Paul said I am crucified wth Christ, and Christ liveth in me, ... If you can imagine to be ONE with Him, you would know YOU WERE MADE ONE WITH HIM... He made you as HE is. He did not AGAIN become like you. That he did and HE FINISHED THAT PART. The part he finishes now, is to MAKE A NEW CREATURE... YOU TO BE LIKE HIM... That is the SAVED people.


Now how NEW IS THIS CREATURE....?

2 Cor 5:17.... Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Please do not be confused by this.... If God says EVERYTHING or ALL THINGS are become new, THERE IS NONE OF THE OLD LEFT.. NONE!!! So if you have ONE single thing of the old left, YOU ARE NOT IN CHRIST, and HE IS NOT IN YOU!

God does not lie, MEN DO!

I know you can bring a lot of scripture that contradicts this, but we are talking about a SAVED person, not one BEING saved. Not one being made holy or being sanctified... ONE THAT GOD COMPLETED.. One that did endure to the END. One that are ALREADY in Christ, and Christ in HIM...

We talk about a 1 John 3:9 person... A BORN OF GOD THAT CANNOT SIN. We are not talking about Cobus, me, we are talking about the REBORN JESUS IN COBUS WHEN GOD FINISHED THE WORK ON COBUS. The Cobus that are made in the IMAGE of HIS SON, To HIs likeness and fulness (eph 4).

 

[Abiding]

I gotcha, Mike.

I hope what I said came off as the observation it was meant to be, and not as a criticism.

love you,
el

No you didnt sound like you were criticizing. I hope i didnt sound
like i was feeling criticized.
I like observers...tonite on the way home from work i had to stop and observe
over twenty lazy elk.

 

[psychomom]

No you didnt sound like you were criticizing. I hope i didnt sound
like i was feeling criticized.
I like observers...tonite on the way home from work i had to stop and observe
over twenty lazy elk.

I'm on the deck looking at the stars and the deer and foxes just keep walking past.
And I'm starting to feel like a lazy elk, myself!

 

[MidniteWelder]

WHY wouldn't the God Who is All Powerful and All Knowing Who knows the ignorance and hardness of men, their foolishness in loving sin more than Him OVER-RIDE all that and make certain they all understood without equivocation, why wouldn't the God Who is Love some are saying can not be basing His decisons on anything other than His absolute respect for man's free will OVER-RIDE their BAD free will choices?

.

Hi Zone, if I may,
You know how were the bride of Christ
Well, would you stay with a man, if he made you to, if he made all your decisions for you to protect you from yourself, ya know because he loved you,

Or would you rather choose to be with a man...because it was your choice.
In a similar comparison
God wants us to show we have chosen him over the one who would lead us to the bad side of life(the bars, drugs partying, etc) for the same reason ,
because we want to.
THATS what our free will is for.
God actually did warn us from the beginning
If you eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and evil... you will die
It was simple
And even still today
When we have that knowledge of the consequences, what do people choose more...
Apple or chocolate donut in the morning?
Excercise or cigarettes
Prayer with God or phone a friend first
Even when many of us do have the knowledge of what we ought not to do
How many of us take it a step further to continually strive to do what we should.
God does intervene much more than he is given credit for
Are we always listening to him? or more to others?

Heres a just for instance example of my own:
I turned my radio off one day
for no reason other than to be able to concentrate on my work...4 days later I realized I hadnt turned my radio on
And it was then I also realized how often God was wanting to talk with me
And how I had been feeding my mind with outside things other than him.
I dont play my radio much anymore
He is much more entertaining, interesting, influential and beneficial in every way

 

[tribesman]

Obedience won't get you home.

It is because we are going home, that we obey. Don't put the cart before the Ox.

Amen. Conditionalism any variant is anti-gospel.

 

[tribesman]

If God only loved one person, it would still be unconditional. His love for that person would not be based on anything that person does, or has to offer.

How can people think straight about that when they have made up their minds about how God HAVE to be and what He HAS to do, otherwise He's unjust, unfair and unloving? God HAS TO show literally "all" the same love and mercy. He HAVE TO do the same thing for literally "all". And still some end up lost. Of course the preaching of the good news conditioned solely on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Christ is an offense to such a thinking. Will always be.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nah, no force required. He changes your heart. Your will changes because of your changed heart.

Scripture says God convicts us of sin righteousness and judgment. It is up to us to respond to that conviction. or to not respond.. Rom 1 says the world knew it, but hardened their heart to it.. Eph 4 says the world became knowingly ignorant and hardened themselves to it..

Ah, so justification comes before salvation?

Justification IS salvation, it is the reason we are given eternal life (regenerate)

Sin caused our death, sin must be removed (justification) before we can be restored to life.

 

[tribesman]

You mean - "All" with exception - those who do not believe in the only begotten Son of God - condemned [John 3:18]

or "All" with distinction - those who do believe in the only begotten Son of God - everlasting life [John 3:16]

So 1 Tim. 2:3,4 would be "all" with distinction. . . . .

I mean all those that Christ represented.

Let me ask you this so its clear where you're coming from: do you believe that Christ accomplished the salvation of even one single soul or did He just make salvation available to all, conditioning same on something in them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thats exactly it...Why do they miss it? The gospel is the "power" of God "unto" salvation
And as many as received Him.....He(then) gave Power to "become" the sons of God

That would be a hard read if we read it from their perspective.

but as many as he chose, he gave them the power to recieve them, THEN they became son of God. ughh I am dizzy!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Reformed folks have told me that all things related to God, Repentance, belief
understanding the gospel message
etc come after regeneration.

early in romans tells different

so does early ephesians

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do people think Gods glory is so fragil that to let men decide their fate
would shatter it.

they are afraid to take any credit, afraid that if they say they are saved by faith, they are trying to earn salvation. I understand the fear it comes from, i just think it is unfounded.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why didn't God tell the egyptians to put the blood of the lamb on their doorposts?

actually some did, quite a few eqyptians left with the hebrews,

 

[Elin]

can't count the number of times this has been put out there Elin.

what about the small changes i made to your post in blue?
dunno if it even matters.
there's no way around it.
zone

Doesn't it omit his omniscience in creation, which is the objection, as far as election is concerned?

The issue against election is that in not electing all, God has created some for hell.

But that objection is not caused by election, it exists no matter what your theology.

That's what I am trying to show.

 

[Elin]

Well of coarse from the result of being cut off primarily. My point is, if i must(i apparently must)
cut off with no effect would still be cut off.
twiddles thumbs

I think the Bible shows it is the result of our dead spirits (loss of Holy Spirit life), which we inherited from Adam.

Because our spirits are dead to Holy Spirit life, they must be raised from that death into eternal life in the rebirth/regeneration.

That is why the unregenerate are spiritually powerless.
The spiritually dead have no power to do anything in the realm of the Holy Spirit, such as believe, trust and obey.

 

[Elin]

wow.. is this so? sorry, But I have to respectfully disagree, it makes a HUGE difference, especially when it comes to proving the love of God.. which was his soul purpose to begin with!

Actually, God's sole purpose in creating is the pleasure of his glory (Rev 4:11), in glorifying his Son, through the Father's mercy and justice.

 

[Elin]

Maybe so but it doesnt give you the right to cherry pick verses out of context
and form a version that makes some feel cool to say God is Sovereign and is glorified
most in the damnation of folks He didnt give a chance at all.

Thats putting the pig .....wait im at a total loss for a comeback so ill put it this
way "deal with it". Rather than bring dishonor and shame to the Lords name.

Yeah, I knew I was running the risk of being understood as referring to God's character as "a pig."

But the "pig" is the odiousness charged against God's election, that it is unjust.

I was showing that the "pig" of odiousness exists even without election.

It's not the result of election, it's the result of creation in omniscience,
and that is a belief in all theology.

So the odiousness is not removed with the removal of election.

 

[Elin]

Its noones job to cover it up Elin. Noone!! and its a shame to even try

There are many who accuse God of injustice because he elects some and not all.

That is what I am addressing.

 

[Elin]

Of coarse it does. along with going against everything Jesus told us to do and think. Its a mess you got.

That mess is common to all theololgy.

Because all theology holds that the Creator is omniscient.

So knowing some would choose to go to hell, he created them anyway.
That is creating them for hell.

So with, or without election, God has created some for hell.

All theology has got a mess.