What does "limited atonement" mean?
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E
Wow..
And this explains why you believe the way you do?
God knew people would recieve,m in fact many people all ready believed it before Christ even died.. Ever hear of abraham, Isaac? jacob? Daniel? David? many many others??
No pride in trusting someone else.
It is like I am drowning in the ocean. A savior comes to rescue me and says sit still trust me, and let me do all the work. don't fight me and try to save yourself or I will let you go.
I do just that. Nothing (because I am unable to save myself) and trust him completely.
later when we get back to shore. I boast of how I saved myself.. Are you kidding me?? Boast of saving myself?? HA HA HA!
No, he would be on his knees, thankful and praising the one who risked his life to save yours, Giving HIM all the glory..
in your senerio. You have many people drowing in the sea. A god who is perfectly able and has complete power to save everyone. But instead, he picks and choses. ok I will save him. Pass right over ten more, Then save this person. Pass over a few more, And chose to save that person. then sits there and watches everyone drown he COULD have saved.
Then demand everyone give him praise and glory?? yeah right, Who is going to praise that Guy? even the ones who he saved would be appalled that he let so many die when had had complete power to save them all..
That is a huge difference than a savior not saving someone because they would not sit still, and continued to try to save himself. The savior warned them if they tried to save themselves, he would leave them on their own. because they prevented him from saving them..
In this senerio. The savior gets the glory, because he tried to save everyone, but many chose to reject his offer of salvation and tried to save themselves.
And this explains why you believe the way you do?
God knew people would recieve,m in fact many people all ready believed it before Christ even died.. Ever hear of abraham, Isaac? jacob? Daniel? David? many many others??
No pride in trusting someone else.
It is like I am drowning in the ocean. A savior comes to rescue me and says sit still trust me, and let me do all the work. don't fight me and try to save yourself or I will let you go.
I do just that. Nothing (because I am unable to save myself) and trust him completely.
later when we get back to shore. I boast of how I saved myself.. Are you kidding me?? Boast of saving myself?? HA HA HA!
No, he would be on his knees, thankful and praising the one who risked his life to save yours, Giving HIM all the glory..
in your senerio. You have many people drowing in the sea. A god who is perfectly able and has complete power to save everyone. But instead, he picks and choses. ok I will save him. Pass right over ten more, Then save this person. Pass over a few more, And chose to save that person. then sits there and watches everyone drown he COULD have saved.
Then demand everyone give him praise and glory?? yeah right, Who is going to praise that Guy? even the ones who he saved would be appalled that he let so many die when had had complete power to save them all..
That is a huge difference than a savior not saving someone because they would not sit still, and continued to try to save himself. The savior warned them if they tried to save themselves, he would leave them on their own. because they prevented him from saving them..
In this senerio. The savior gets the glory, because he tried to save everyone, but many chose to reject his offer of salvation and tried to save themselves.
E
you tell me? maybe because he wanted to prove to creation he was a loving God and Satan was a liar? I mean scripture does say God uses US to teach ANGELS of his love and mercy..
so what did God do? he knew they would sin, but created them anyway knowing he would pay the debt for their sin, and offer a chance to restore them to a relationship based on the love of his son..
At the same time, show how foolish we who follow satan are. We know truth, we see it, we have it in our grasp. but we reject it out of pride.. Who is the fool? is it not ALL who reject the gift of God and the offer of eternal life?
Yet God is still proven to be a God of love
so what did God do? he knew they would sin, but created them anyway knowing he would pay the debt for their sin, and offer a chance to restore them to a relationship based on the love of his son..
At the same time, show how foolish we who follow satan are. We know truth, we see it, we have it in our grasp. but we reject it out of pride.. Who is the fool? is it not ALL who reject the gift of God and the offer of eternal life?
Yet God is still proven to be a God of love
E
They blinded themselves in unbelief. They are ignorant because of the hardness of their heart. yet God has not destroyed them.. and they are still a nation (although scattered) Gods love is still proven, and he is still glorified
lol.. You amaze me, You say you hate me, You say you never want to talk to me again, You have removed me from your friends list. yet you continue to bring up romans 9 every time you get a chance?
Dan 9 was not meant for me. And it will give great power to them when they repent, and god shows he still keeps his promises and shows GREAT mercy even to an unbelieving and sinful nation.. that when they repent, god will keep there promise.
face it.. your view of Dan 9 gives God no glory, he did not keep his promise to daniel. Jerusalem has been trampled for 2000 years now. and his people are still in sin against God..
except in your belief, It will remain this way forever, and god will never keep his promise to daniel.
E
Well count me in on that. But that isnt the case. God will save all who assent to the gospel.
But still people object and hate Him for refusing them even after they refused Him and lived
with their backs turned on Him. Oh well
I guess this would be another thing either point of view
wont remedy
But still people object and hate Him for refusing them even after they refused Him and lived
with their backs turned on Him. Oh well
I guess this would be another thing either point of viewwont remedy
why is it they will be condemned only because their name was erased from the book of life?
why is it God removed the tree of life from the garden. so man could not chose to eat of it and live forever. why did he not just keep it there as a sign and make it so no one could ever eat of it. but look at it as a reminder of how bad they screwed up?
C
Elin,
This is really bugging me. How is it that since I think that we are to do God's work of believing in the One He sent that I am unregenerated. For me to be unregenerated, that means I have not been born a child of God. If not a child of God, then I am a child of the wrath. If a child of the wrath, then I shall partake of the second death.....All because I do not agree with your way of thinking.....
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do (work), that we might work (do) the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent (this is the do (work) we are to do in order to do the work of God).
That is a lot of dos there....
This is really bugging me. How is it that since I think that we are to do God's work of believing in the One He sent that I am unregenerated. For me to be unregenerated, that means I have not been born a child of God. If not a child of God, then I am a child of the wrath. If a child of the wrath, then I shall partake of the second death.....All because I do not agree with your way of thinking.....
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do (work), that we might work (do) the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent (this is the do (work) we are to do in order to do the work of God).
That is a lot of dos there....
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G
And, how do they come to believe , nile? By osmosis. Some get God's free gift of salvation and some never do ?
How does one 'believe'?
What's grand about 'believing' to be 'in Christ.'
Does the bible stop at John 3:16 or is there a whole lot more after that verse?
Do you REALLY know what it means to 'believe in Him,' nile ?
Care to read any Eph. 2:8 Scripture into your 'limited atonement' belief ?
What is Paul speaking of that is 'not of ourselves,' in this Eph. 2:8 verse?
It's not being 'saved,' who in their right mind thinks they are saved because of their power to take themself to heaven after they die.
And, what dummy thinks that 'grace' is not of themself, of course, 'grace' is what God gave us at the cross, and, what He daily in our mere human-existing/living gives us daily.
So, whst is it that is a free gift of God, thaf is not of ourselves? Faith !
God gave us all our 'measure,' whatever' measure it is, God GIFTED us all with a measure, and, we are to do what with it?
Increase it? Yes! But, we are but WORKERS, it is ONLY He who increases our faith.
So, work! All can work, just like, ALL can choose to elect themself into His pasture. But, the Good Shepherd MUST let us in and He will, by your belief in His grace. Through faith !
How does one 'believe'?
What's grand about 'believing' to be 'in Christ.'
Does the bible stop at John 3:16 or is there a whole lot more after that verse?
Do you REALLY know what it means to 'believe in Him,' nile ?
Care to read any Eph. 2:8 Scripture into your 'limited atonement' belief ?
What is Paul speaking of that is 'not of ourselves,' in this Eph. 2:8 verse?
It's not being 'saved,' who in their right mind thinks they are saved because of their power to take themself to heaven after they die.
And, what dummy thinks that 'grace' is not of themself, of course, 'grace' is what God gave us at the cross, and, what He daily in our mere human-existing/living gives us daily.
So, whst is it that is a free gift of God, thaf is not of ourselves? Faith !
God gave us all our 'measure,' whatever' measure it is, God GIFTED us all with a measure, and, we are to do what with it?
Increase it? Yes! But, we are but WORKERS, it is ONLY He who increases our faith.
So, work! All can work, just like, ALL can choose to elect themself into His pasture. But, the Good Shepherd MUST let us in and He will, by your belief in His grace. Through faith !
G
We can CHOOSE to be children of God or not, after He chooses us THEN we choose Him, or, not.
The choice for salvation is ours to make, we make it by choosing Him.
Simple. Salvation is simple, nile, it's not some awful, complex, drawn up scheme of God that only lets some in who are born, it lets all in who choose to believe in Him. Active choice. Read John 3:16 .
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
they like to live on symbols
Moses held the serpent up high, and said if you look at it, you will live, do not you will die
Many died.. why? if it was so easy that all we had to do is look.. Who forced them to not look at the serpant? better yet, who forced them to look at it?
this is called faith..
.......
where were all the gentiles getting saved in the surrounding nations?
were they there looking at the serpent also?
they like to live on symbols
Moses held the serpent up high, and said if you look at it, you will live, do not you will die
Many died.. why? if it was so easy that all we had to do is look.. Who forced them to not look at the serpant? better yet, who forced them to look at it?
this is called faith..
.......
where were all the gentiles getting saved in the surrounding nations?
were they there looking at the serpent also?
A
Im not saying that election isnt a part of the plan of redemption. But all election
isnt to salvation. Yes im sure about the context of Romans 9 and it "is not" a place
to glean doctrine about salvation unless you understand the overriding theme of what
Paul is talking about.
For instance "harden" does not mean damnation. Neither does "mercy" mean salvation.
Even tho those who will be damned are going to be hardened, and those who are saved will
have been given mercy. If you only knew the context. And what blindness, hardenned, cut off really
meant. You would understand.
I can see that you dont understand the context, and what is being labored for three chapters.
If hardened, blinded, cut off meant damnation, then NO Israelite could have "ever" been saved.
Paul is actually enlightening us to the very opposite view and far from what you have gleaned.
Nope it isnt. salvation and redemption is the end result and goal of all things in every place in the bible
but romans 9 is not saying what your saying it says. The part about who can judge God is not talking
about salvation. But rather How He brings it about in His involvement in History with men and nations
and who He chooses to harden and give mercy and why. And also to what extent.
isnt to salvation. Yes im sure about the context of Romans 9 and it "is not" a place
to glean doctrine about salvation unless you understand the overriding theme of what
Paul is talking about.
For instance "harden" does not mean damnation. Neither does "mercy" mean salvation.
Even tho those who will be damned are going to be hardened, and those who are saved will
have been given mercy. If you only knew the context. And what blindness, hardenned, cut off really
meant. You would understand.
I can see that you dont understand the context, and what is being labored for three chapters.
If hardened, blinded, cut off meant damnation, then NO Israelite could have "ever" been saved.
Paul is actually enlightening us to the very opposite view and far from what you have gleaned.
Nope it isnt. salvation and redemption is the end result and goal of all things in every place in the bible
but romans 9 is not saying what your saying it says. The part about who can judge God is not talking
about salvation. But rather How He brings it about in His involvement in History with men and nations
and who He chooses to harden and give mercy and why. And also to what extent.
C
We can CHOOSE to be children of God or not, after He chooses us THEN we choose Him, or, not.
The choice for salvation is ours to make, we make it by choosing Him.
Simple. Salvation is simple, nile, it's not some awful, complex, drawn up scheme of God that only lets some in who are born, it lets all in who choose to believe in Him. Active choice. Read John 3:16 .
The choice for salvation is ours to make, we make it by choosing Him.
Simple. Salvation is simple, nile, it's not some awful, complex, drawn up scheme of God that only lets some in who are born, it lets all in who choose to believe in Him. Active choice. Read John 3:16 .
E
lol.. God used this as a symbol to show Christ, that those who are his if they will look on him, who was lifted up (the cross) will be saved, those who do not will die.
And you ask me about gentiles? who were not in the wilderness and did not have to worry about being bitten by these snakes and need rescued?
Well some Egyptians did leave with them. I am sure some of them were saved also. does that count.
Zone, I am not being mean, I am saying this to help you. Your hate for premillinialism, and myself has made you so distraught you are starting to ask questions which make no sense.. and do not even have a thing to do with what is being said.
This thread is not about isreal and pre-mill.. you yell at people for taking your threads and destroying them, what do you think you are doing now?
if you think you are hurting my position by these remarks and jabs, your not. But you are hurting yourself. because people will wonder why are you are making such huge mistakes in judgment. like this here.
And you ask me about gentiles? who were not in the wilderness and did not have to worry about being bitten by these snakes and need rescued?
Well some Egyptians did leave with them. I am sure some of them were saved also. does that count.
Zone, I am not being mean, I am saying this to help you. Your hate for premillinialism, and myself has made you so distraught you are starting to ask questions which make no sense.. and do not even have a thing to do with what is being said.
This thread is not about isreal and pre-mill.. you yell at people for taking your threads and destroying them, what do you think you are doing now?
if you think you are hurting my position by these remarks and jabs, your not. But you are hurting yourself. because people will wonder why are you are making such huge mistakes in judgment. like this here.