Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[Abiding]

I dunno'.

The following don't seem like trash, a cop-out or embarrassing to me:

Jn 6:38 - "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me."

Mt 24:36 - "No one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Lk 22:42 - "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."


Isn't that what I said?

If God willed it, he would do it, because he does all his will.

those verses do not explain away matthew 23. Not even a little

 

[cfultz3]

Acts 4:28 was not prophecy, it was an after-the-event explanation.

It was not pre-determined in God's salvational plan that the Jews would reject their Messiah and would kill Him?

You gotta' stop basing your theology on what your erroneious human thinking regards as the necessary consequences, and start basing it on what the text actually states.

That would benefit all in doing so.

Your notion of divine foreknowledge is too human, and does not agree with what it means in every place that it is used in Scripture.

Foreknew = to know beforehand. To have knowledge of an event before it happens.

What am I missing here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whatever are you talking about?

why do you keep hiding?

He has asked you many times, do you believe in regeneration before faith yes or no

you still have not answered. so all he has to go off of is to go by what you are saying, which agrees with EVERYONE who would say yes. So he assumes you do, as they do, until you tell him otherwise.

 

[Abiding]

Don't load yourself up with responding to me about what I never said.

Im not im just telling you my motive since most others have.
Id like to know your position to make dialogue more fruitful.
Your answering questions in a roundabout way as to not really answer them.
Its ok tho i dont want to just be a bother.

But remember that doctrines have implications and they need to be
forthright and accountable to the word of God as a whole.
Putting verses here and their to formulate a theory is not called "meat"

 

[zone]

Is this what you're looking for?

yes it was.

thank you. i didn't know it was there.

 

[zone]

why do you keep hiding?

He has asked you many times, do you believe in regeneration before faith yes or no

you still have not answered. so all he has to go off of is to go by what you are saying, which agrees with EVERYONE who would say yes. So he assumes you do, as they do, until you tell him otherwise.

she did answer, AND YOU SAID YOU AGREED!
LOLOL

 

[zone]

anyways Elin, i've seen enough now to make up my own mind and again i want to thank you for your hard work and patience.
i know how to find you if i have questions or concerns, and i prolly will have both.
thanks ever so much.

peace out.
kath

 

[Abiding]

are not all men condemned already, at enmity with God, and God has the right to do as He will?
this objection i don't get

What objection? Im aware man is born condemned. No objections to that. Im aware God is the only One with the right to do as He pleases. Im not only fine with that, i wholeheartedly want Him to. So no objection there either. So what objection are you presuming i have? That you dont get?

 

[Elin]

He also said He 'Never" speaks except what the Father gives Him. You stepped in do-doo there.
Also He could not have been talking from His human side as you imply look at the context..it is not
referring to His life on earth. Thats simply a statement that should embarrass.

I dunno'.

The following don't seem like trash, a cop-out or embarrassing to me:

Jn 6:38 - "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me."

Mt 24:36 - "No one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Lk 22:42 - "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

God says He will do all His will.

Isn't that what I said?

If God willed it, he would do it, because he does all his will.

So if he didn't do it (save many), then he didn't will it.

those verses do not explain away matthew 23. Not even a little

Explain what away?

 

[Abiding]

hi abiding.
i wanted to see where the correct interpretation of Romans 9 was dealt with.
but there are lots of threads and lots of posts.
have you posted on what it really means?
sorry i missed it, i was doing other things.

This again? ha Ive responded to interpretations when necessary.
Pointing out things i found left out. But i doubt anytime soon im gona
make a commentary on romans 9. And ty for telling me what i already
figured and thats the futility of posting much at all in a thread thinking
people will read it and understand as it goes along. Ill consider just throwing
up pics and providing humor.

 

[Abiding]

not necessarily.
is faith a gift?

maybe things are moving too quickly and we haven't agreed on how just how dead in sins and trespasses man is.

all men are condemned already and The Lord said why:

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

I dont think anyone is having doubt about that truth Kath. That man has been condemned, or
not capable to save himself or even have a heart for God on his own.. That is just his condition
and standing.

But that isnt the problem here. We talked about that before. All good things come from above
so yes we should consider faith a gift. That still doesnt mean its given after regeneration.
Thats just the contention of some to build limited atonement on.

Its not a matter of what God "can" do. Its a matter of what scripture is saying He "is" doing.

 

[Abiding]

but....not everyone was given the Law. and not everyone heard of Moses.
what did we do about all those gentiles paul said were lost, without hope and without God in the world?






are all these a gift of God?
that's the question.
i know Ephesians isn't the passage that proves faith is agfit - we already did this.
but you agreed elsewhere that it is a gift, and that so is salvation.

since all men are not saved, does the grace part NOT attached to the passages about faith and salvation have any real bearing the discussion? this is what i don't get.

if it's ultimately salvation by faith, why separate grace from that equation and try to move over to the end conclusion about men who stay condemned? i don't get it.



if the subject is salvation what difference does it make?
if men are saved, it will because of by grace, through faith.
i don't see why the scissoring.



i'll bookmark this because it seems to be the crux of it.

i guess it's really super-charged responses to certain terms used.
which is fine.
just not sure if they really define the ultimate discussion.



have a good workday abiding.

Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

sunergeó: to work together
Original Word: συνεργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sunergeó
Phonetic Spelling: (soon-erg-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I work together
Definition: I cooperate with, work together.

i guess this is synergy.
but it says God causes

it's still Him doing it.

Im on lunch break...good questions but will
look at this post again after the work day.

 

[Abiding]

Explain what away?

Nothing scriptural to explain away. If i understand the question, then
its how can God will something that entails not having His will be done
in once sense but how His untimate will is to be accomplished that gives
Him all His pleasure.

And i can do it without saying Jesus was a false prophet or that
His humanity was capable of misleading us in Gods purpose.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

she did answer, AND YOU SAID YOU AGREED!
LOLOL

No, she said she thinks they all happen the same time, The sequence is only logic.

What is the sequence?

We still do not know what she thinks. it is like abiding says, She keeps answering in a roundabout way without really answering.

 

[Elin]

Your notion of divine foreknowledge is too human, and does not agree with what it means in every place that it is used in Scripture.

Foreknew = to know beforehand. To have knowledge of an event before it happens.

What am I missing here?

In Scripture, God's foreknowledge is not knowing in advance what men will do, and then basing his actions on theirs,

it is knowing in advance what he will do.

Ac 15:13 - "known to the Lord for ages is his work."

Ac 2:33 - "God's set purpose and foreknowledge."

Isa 37:26 - "Long ago I ordained it; in days of old I planned it; now I have brought it to pass"

Ro 9:22 - "prepared for (God's) destruction"

1Pe 1:20 - "Christ was foreknown before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times."

 

[Elin]

Don't load yourself up with responding to me about what I never said.

why do you keep hiding?

He has asked you many times, do you believe in regeneration before faith yes or no

you still have not answered. so all he has to go off of is to go by what you are saying, which agrees with EVERYONE who would say yes. So he assumes you do, as they do, until you tell him otherwise.

You don't have a clue to what my comment was responding.

 

[Elin]

Im not im just telling you my motive since most others have.
Id like to know your position to make dialogue more fruitful.
Your answering questions in a roundabout way as to not really answer them.
Its ok tho i dont want to just be a bother.

But remember that doctrines have implications and they need to be
forthright and accountable to the word of God as a whole.
Putting verses here and their to formulate a theory is not called "meat"

I experience your question as being of the same nature as the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife."

Yes or No?

The premise of the question is unacceptable to me.

 

[Elin]

Nothing scriptural to explain away. If i understand the question, then
its how can God will something that entails not having His will be done
in once sense but how His untimate will is to be accomplished that gives
Him all His pleasure.

And i can do it without saying Jesus was a false prophet or that
His humanity was capable of misleading us in Gods purpose.

Those two are in the eye of the beholder who views them through his theological spectacles.

 

[zone]

This again? ha Ive responded to interpretations when necessary.
Pointing out things i found left out. But i doubt anytime soon im gona
make a commentary on romans 9. And ty for telling me what i already
figured and thats the futility of posting much at all in a thread thinking
people will read it and understand as it goes along. Ill consider just throwing
up pics and providing humor.

i have since located it and read it...sorry.

what do you mean?
i said i was doing something else, which i was at the time, which was making a smoothie.
and posting and reading other things also.

and i've tried to read everything you wrote. i think i have but there are a lot of posts.

and didn't you post a pic of dueling pistols in my thread?

i'm reading what you write.

 

[mark54]

Must go, have an early start in the morning, you all get a break from me for a week

You know Elin, I've been wondering why you never put a certain scripture before me to try and back up what you have been saying, I guess you thought it may just be a bit to hard to defend if you did

You can discuss mans limited free will all you want, you can dicuss sin/predestination the whole caboot, but without the Holy Spirit you got no Gospel. It is the Spirt who brings new life, the Spirit who convicts of the sin, and the Spirit who sanctifies. Without speaking of the Spirit you have an empty vaccuum that cannot be filled. And the Spirit leads into truth
And what defines if a person is a Christian/saved is whether the Holy Spirit dwells in them(Rom8:9) That is the deciding factor, not much woodenist doctrine that people often bring forth.
I don't profess to have a crystal ball myself to know if the Spirit dwells in a person or not, though sometimes you do feel such an affinity with what others are saying, that you have an assurance concerning them