Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[cfultz3]

you can call all you want.
it really means nothing to me chris. okay?

i divide by isms?
no dear...as you continue to post, you post your own isms.
it is those isms (though you claim you have none - perhaps you're making it up as you go? i don't know) which eventually cause me to decide with whom i fellowship.

if someone is wantonly fellowshipping with arians, for example, over time i must decide with whom i will walk and be in agreement.

that's not up to you.
that is up to me.
okay?

thanks anyways.

So, continue in your disdain if that is your desire. Continue in your learning of isms, if that is your desire.

I count it a blessing that I am not in that fellowship. Seeing that in that fellowship, one would dare to say, "it is okay to hate." While yet another will have one seem 'not a child of God' because of disagreement of doctrine. Yet, another would disown another because of not believing like her. You see what a believe in a man's doctrine would do? I see nothing of that fellowship I desire. I will stick to the written Word of God.

 

[zone]

So, continue in your disdain if that is your desire. Continue in your learning of isms, if that is your desire.

I count it a blessing that I am not in that fellowship. Seeing that in that fellowship, one would dare to say, "it is okay to hate." While yet another will have one seem 'not a child of God' because of disagreement of doctrine. Yet, another would disown another because of not believing like her. You see what a believe in a man's doctrine would do? I see nothing of that fellowship I desire. I will stick to the written Word of God.

"I will stick to the written Word of God."
why don't you then instead of injecting stuff into it?


i don't hate people.
i hate bad doctrine.
but if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise,
knock yourself out.

bye bye, then.

 

[cfultz3]

"I will stick to the written Word of God."
why don't you then instead of injecting stuff into it?


i don't hate people.
i hate bad doctrine.
but if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise,
knock yourself out.

bye bye, then.

How can it be said that you stick to the written word of God when 60 percent of what you say is words spoken by another? Another 39.9 percent is words of disdain?

By your fruits, here = the words you speak, you are known.

 

[cfultz3]

you can call all you want.
it really means nothing to me chris. okay?

i divide by isms?
no dear...as you continue to post, you post your own isms.
it is those isms (though you claim you have none - perhaps you're making it up as you go? i don't know) which eventually cause me to decide with whom i fellowship.

if someone is wantonly fellowshipping with arians, for example, over time i must decide with whom i will walk and be in agreement.

that's not up to you.
that is up to me.
okay?

thanks anyways.

By your own words, you have spoken your heart's desire.

 

[zone]

How can it be said that you stick to the written word of God when 60 percent of what you say is words spoken by another?

what other would that be?
cfultz, your opinion is valid for you.
okay?


"By your own words, you have spoken your heart's desire."

yes, otherwise i would not have said it.
i have no fellowship over time with false teachers.
if that includes you, you decide.

a suggestion: don't put too much stock in the click like button feature.
people use it for reasons that are their own.
and may have nothing to do with agreement in theology or fellowship.

~

so let us leave off posting to one another, if you wish.
if not, i'm alright with that.

today, though, i will refrain.
take care.

 

[Abiding]

...and where they receive "prevenient grace".

What good would it do to plaster a whole page of proof of prevenient grace?
Your not about to believe a heretic. Youd likely say, look how they cherrypick
verses from the bible and twist them. ha

 

[cfultz3]

what other would that be?
cfultz, your opinion is valid for you.
okay?


"By your own words, you have spoken your heart's desire."

yes, otherwise i would not have said it.
i have no fellowship over time with false teachers.
if that includes you, you decide.

a suggestion: don't put too much stock in the click like button feature.
people use it for reasons that are their own.
and may have nothing to do with agreement in theology or fellowship.

~

so let us leave off posting to one another, if you wish.
if not, i'm alright with that.

today, though, i will refrain.
take care.

Trust me when I say that it is not the like button I am speaking of. Am I the only one who speaks to you about the way you speak to others? Is mockery, belittlement, a thread of a KGB investigation, and everything else which goes with disdain a display of love?

i have no fellowship over time with false teachers.

if that includes you, you decide.

Decide if I am a false teacher? Decide if I want that sort of fellowship?

If that fellowship draws in people who says it is okay to hate, it is their discernment to condemn, it is okay to ridicule, then I would want nothing to do with that fellowship. My decision has already been made, and yes, by the guidance of the Holy Spirit which guides those in Christ to Truth: I want nothing to do with that fellowship.

 

[zone]

i love it when ppl write their own 'isms', then quote themselves.
a-a-a-a-a-anyways.

back at the ranch.

Thread: Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

Sovereignty of God
"What do we mean by [the sovereignty of God]? We mean the supremacy of God, the kingship of God, the god-hood of God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that God is God. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Most High, doing according to His will in the army of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, so that none can stay His hand or say unto Him what doest Thou? (Dan. 4:35). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the Almighty, the Possessor of all power in Heaven and earth, so that none can defeat His counsels, thwart His purpose, or resist His will (Psa. 115:3). To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is "The Governor among the nations" (Psa. 22:28), setting up kingdoms, overthrowing empires, and determining the course of dynasties as pleaseth Him best. To say that God is Sovereign is to declare that He is the "Only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" (1 Tim. 6:15). Such is the God of the Bible."
A. W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God, chapter 1.

 

[Abiding]

I doubt that anyone has the least problem with God being totally sovereign.
Maybe satan and a few of his converts. But even they i dont think are that stupid
to think they will change much.

The rub is those who declare just what that means. Yes He is Sovereign.
Yes He did does and will do all His will. But what is that? See? thats the
place where contention comes in. What is His will? And how is He bringing
it to pass?

 

[GreenNnice]

I doubt that anyone has the least problem with God being totally sovereign.
Maybe satan and a few of his converts. But even they i dont think are that stupid
to think they will change much.

The rub is those who declare just what that means. Yes He is Sovereign.
Yes He did does and will do all His will. But what is that? See? thats the
place where contention comes in. What is His will? And how is He bringing
it to pass?

And, therein lies the secrets of truth from Him, your truth that's been given by Him, and, with that comes a measure of something else to believe. Faith !

---------------
oh, zone, oh, zone, oh, zone, why must you constantly 'hate' others' doctrine, its' just what they believe, and, God gives people ALL truth through His Holy Spirit in us. Why must you? Tsk, tsk Why NOT just let God do things, your faith, your hope in your Lutheran faith 'ism' is FINE ! The Lord leads, just don't condemn those that believe in a different 'resistible grace.'
))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((

Hey, does something smell funny in here? Oh, sorry, that's just you, squirrel D:


I think abiding says it best, the word, not the person, we are to abide in Him. You know, I can think of know better example of willfully abiding in tough situation than this:

"Father, take this cup from me, but not my will but Thy will be done." Wasn't Jesus asking God a question there? So, for our will, we WANT it to be Thy will. Of course, God can override and circumvent any thing He wants to do of our life, but He does work by grace, through faith in our believing in His name, His work for us, understanding this truth: We are His workmanship. He made us and we should have confidence that He who began a good work in us will complete it. But how will He complete it. By faith !

I like this Scripture:

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed
upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not
I, but the grace of God which was with me.

 

[Abiding]

And, therein lies the secrets of truth from Him, your truth that's been given by Him, and, with that comes a measure of something else to believe. Faith !

---------------
oh, zone, oh, zone, oh, zone, why must you constantly 'hate' others' doctrine, its' just what they believe, and, God gives people ALL truth through His Holy Spirit in us. Why must you? Tsk, tsk Why NOT just let God do things, your faith, your hope in your Lutheran faith 'ism' is FINE ! The Lord leads, just don't condemn those that believe in a different 'resistible grace.'
))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((

Hey, does something smell funny in here? Oh, sorry, that's just you, squirrel D:


I think abiding says it best, the word, not the person, we are to abide in Him. You know, I can think of know better example of willfully abiding in tough situation than this:

"Father, take this cup from me, but not my will but Thy will be done." Wasn't Jesus asking God a question there? So, for our will, we WANT it to be Thy will. Of course, God can override and circumvent any thing He wants to do of our life, but He does work by grace, through faith in our believing in His name, His work for us, understanding this truth: We are His workmanship. He made us and we should have confidence that He who began a good work in us will complete it. But how will He complete it. By faith !

I like this Scripture:

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed
upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not
I, but the grace of God which was with me.

If your gona take a shot at someone PLEASE leave my name out of it. ty

 

[GreenNnice]

If your gona take a shot at someone PLEASE leave my name out of it. ty

oh, squirrel, I was kidding, you smell like a fresh buffalo apple

 

[zone]

sorry green....don't have much to work with on that.
k....ty.

 

[GreenNnice]

Well, ohzone, milady, you asked for me to 'document' that grace comes by faith bestowed and God gave Paul his faith so He then would choose to labor harder than the rest, which took faith. There was more than one laborer, who was in Christ, and, God made Paul 'I am what I am,' which is muchly blessed, being an apostle from God sent to do His work, be provided for, go on missionary journeys, but most importantly God's hand on Paul's life gave Him the hope that he would, indeed, see Christ one day in Heaven.

Now, you asked me too to document non-Christians being given faith BEFORE they believed in God, I think that is obvious, isn't it? How can one believe without 'faith.' ?

 

[Elin]

nilE, milady, I see no reason why God does not give unregenerate man faith.

There is only one kind of faith in the NT, saving faith, in Jesus Christ.

If you are saying that God gives all unregenerate man that Bilbical faith, which is trust in Christ, then that is not Biblical.

 

[Elin]

Anyone who states a person must believe Christ is the one true God Himself

Most of the NT makes no sense if Jesus is not God.

 

[mark54]

Most of the NT makes no sense if Jesus is not God.

Sense to whom Elin?
The mind led of the natural man?
Or the mind led of the Spirit?
Big difference

You told me your ideology was straight from the bible, that's what you said

Jesus said there is only one TRUE GOD, the Father
TRUE being the important word. So will you now cast aside the plain words of Christ on this subject?

Paul said
We have one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ
Did he lie Elin?

John said
No one has seen God at ANYTIME

Did he lie too Elin?

John said

If anyone believes Jesus is THE SON OF GOD God lives in him and he in God(they are saved)

Did John lie again Elin?

Do you really believe eternall life hinges on a belief not plainly stated, or demanded in scripture?
#
I ask sincerely, how can you have solely biblical ideology if you believe that?

In effect, you must ignore much of the plain word, and usurp it, by the rational rerasoning of the human mind

But let us be clear, the difference here is not as to the nature of Christ, but his title, and John is very clear as to the title we must believe in to have eternal life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life
1John5:13

Now do you want a theological discussion as to how Christ can have the nature of the Father but not be the one true God Himself?

Ity is beyond your reasonnig Elin, and mine
You either accept the plain scripture or dismiss it
But the person led of the Holy Spirit in this matter will not add to any requirement Christ himself laid down for a person to inherit eternal life, of that I know for sure

 

[GreenNnice]

Most of the NT makes no sense if Jesus is not God.

True but that is only to you and everyone else who believes Jesus and God are one.

It's frustrating for those not understanding the trinity and speaking that they are lacking understanding to grasp Father, Son, Holy Spirit, is anything but love, nilE. just saying, I love ya, man



--------------

What is 'saving faith' ? I brought up 'faith in Him' , but what exactly does 'saving faith' mean, and, where in Scripture are those words or words that speak that is needed as opposed to just the plain ole word, 'faith,' to stand for 'saving faith.'

'Saving faith' seems redundant to me. One who is saved will have faith.

 

[zone]

Well, ohzone, milady, you asked for me to 'document' that grace comes by faith bestowed and God gave Paul his faith so He then would choose to labor harder than the rest, which took faith. There was more than one laborer, who was in Christ, and, God made Paul 'I am what I am,' which is muchly blessed, being an apostle from God sent to do His work, be provided for, go on missionary journeys, but most importantly God's hand on Paul's life gave Him the hope that he would, indeed, see Christ one day in Heaven.

Now, you asked me too to document non-Christians being given faith BEFORE they believed in God, I think that is obvious, isn't it? How can one believe without 'faith.' ?

does not compute.
all men are not given a measure of faith in Christ.

 

[zone]

Sense to whom Elin?
The mind led of the natural man?
Or the mind led of the Spirit?
Big difference

You told me your ideology was straight from the bible, that's what you said

Jesus said there is only one TRUE GOD, the Father
TRUE being the important word. So will you now cast aside the plain words of Christ on this subject?

Paul said
We have one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ
Did he lie Elin?

John said
No one has seen God at ANYTIME

Did he lie too Elin?

John said

If anyone believes Jesus is THE SON OF GOD God lives in him and he in God(they are saved)

Did John lie again Elin?

Do you really believe eternall life hinges on a belief not plainly stated, or demanded in scripture?
#
I ask sincerely, how can you have solely biblical ideology if you believe that?

In effect, you must ignore much of the plain word, and usurp it, by the rational rerasoning of the human mind

But let us be clear, the difference here is not as to the nature of Christ, but his title, and John is very clear as to the title we must believe in to have eternal life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life
1John5:13

Now do you want a theological discussion as to how Christ can have the nature of the Father but not be the one true God Himself?

Ity is beyond your reasonnig Elin, and mine
You either accept the plain scripture or dismiss it
But the person led of the Holy Spirit in this matter will not add to any requirement Christ himself laid down for a person to inherit eternal life, of that I know for sure

Judges 13
15Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, “Please let us detain you and prepare a young goat for you.” 16And the angel of the LORD said to Manoah, “If you detain me, I will not eat of your food. But if you prepare a burnt offering, then offer it to the LORD.” (For Manoah did not know that he was the angel of the LORD.) 17And Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, “What is your name, so that, when your words come true, we may honor you?” 18And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” 19So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it on the rock to the LORD, to the one who works wonders, and Manoah and his wife were watching. 20And when the flame went up toward heaven from the altar, the angel of the LORD went up in the flame of the altar. Now Manoah and his wife were watching, and they fell on their faces to the ground.

21The angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of the LORD. 22And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.” 23But his wife said to him, “If the LORD had meant to kill us, he would not have accepted a burnt offering and a grain offering at our hands, or shown us all these things, or now announced to us such things as these.” 24And the woman bore a son and called his name Samson. And the young man grew, and the LORD blessed him. 25And the Spirit of the LORD began to stir him in Mahaneh-dan, between Zorah and Eshtaol.


elohim: God, god
Original Word: אֱלֹהִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: elohim
Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem')
Short Definition: God


pili or pali: wonderful, incomprehensible
Original Word: פֶּ֫לִאי
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pili or pali
Phonetic Spelling: (pil-ee')
Short Definition: wonderful
from:
pala: to be surpassing or extraordinary
Original Word: פָּלָא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pala
Phonetic Spelling: (paw-law')
Short Definition: wonders


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

pili or pali: wonderful, incomprehensible
Original Word: פֶּ֫לִאי
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pili or pali
Phonetic Spelling: (pil-ee')
Short Definition: wonderful
from:
pala: to be surpassing or extraordinary
Original Word: פָּלָא
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pala
Phonetic Spelling: (paw-law')
Short Definition: wonders