Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[mark54]

Mark,
I have been quoting Paul, John, and Jesus.
(As well as many others)
Not a hard thing to realize Jesus was God made flesh.
PLEASE READ!
- - - - - - - - -PLEASE!~

I know you are desperate Rick, but come on. If I wanted a discussion with you as to is Jesus the one true God, I'd produce scrtipture needed for such a discussion, but I don't

I want the scriptures that state eternal life hinges on such a belief, you haven't got any, so all you can do is ramble on with empty bluster

 

[RickShafer]

I know you are desperate Rick, but come on. If I wanted a discussion with you as to is Jesus the one true God, I'd produce scrtipture needed for such a discussion, but I don't

I want the scriptures that state eternal life hinges on such a belief, you haven't got any, so all you can do is ramble on with empty bluster

And I've given it to you.
But you refuse to see.
I'm not going to restate it, as you find it detestable.
Reread all my posts answering you.
Be honest.

 

[mark54]

But it is a misnomer and a contradiction to claim that a Trinitarian does not believe in the three persons of the Triune Godhead ... the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as being co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial. If one does not believe this, they're simply not a "Trinitarian" .... period !"

This is a recording .....

Henceforth, you may use the term "many ministers" in your argument .... but not the term "many Trinitarian ministers"


Can you hear me???????
They don't preach what a few of you do on the internet, that you must believe Christ is the one true God unto salvation(or hardly any would)
That's the difference between nearly all the ministers in the pulpit and a few fanatics on these websites.
They tend to leave it up to the individual as to whether they believe Christ is the son of God, or the Son of God PLUS the one true God

Do I need to write it any plainer than that??????

 

[RickShafer]

Here's more:

John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.[HR][/HR]John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.[HR][/HR]John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.[HR][/HR]John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.[HR][/HR]John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;[HR][/HR]Acts 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.[HR][/HR]Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.[HR][/HR]Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.[HR][/HR]Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning.[HR][/HR]Hebrews 10:20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body,[HR][/HR]1 John 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

[mark54]

And I've given it to you.
But you refuse to see.
I'm not going to restate it, as you find it detestable.
Reread all my posts answering you.
Be honest.

Once again, nothing but empty words. You have given me no scripture that states what you insist eternal life hinges on believing
But carry on, you are in a minority of course, nearly all the trinitarian ministers, and their congregations are not as immature in the faith as you are, they don't go around telling people they will be condemned on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth(what you in effect believe)

Save us from the internet scholar and theologian

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mark. I hope I am misunderstanding this goes back to the trinity and the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the earth. In the beginning was the the word and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. I don't know full detail of what you and rick are fussing about. But I must say Jesus is God.

listen to what he is saying, he is not saying what many think he is saying.

 

[jinx]

I am a oneness believer, that the name of JESUS is the name of the almighty GOD we serve, but I've learned something over my wee little years of being here on this earth..... and that is, if people don't want to obtain that understanding, then all the forcing in the world wont change that fact. No amount of scriptures being shown will make them say "hey, I get it now".
JESUS said, draw closer to me and I will draw closer to you. So unless someone is seeking for that truth, no amount of forum chat will change their mind, cause anyone can argue.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Baaaah,ha,ha!!!
I like that, "the little grey calls"
If this was a baseball game it would have been called. - (Did you mean 'little grey cells'?)

The jury is out.
Mark54 says Jesus isn't the only way to the Father.
I say He is.

Hear ye, hear ye:
All jurors cast your votes.

Mark never said this. get out of your pride and listen to what he is saying. It gets sickening people come here and try to tell people what they believe, and refuse to listen to them!

 

[mark54]

I am a oneness believer, that the name of JESUS is the name of the almighty GOD we serve, but I've learned something over my wee little years of being here on this earth..... and that is, if people don't want to obtain that understanding, then all the forcing in the world wont change that fact. No amount of scriptures being shown will make them say "hey, I get it now".
JESUS said, draw closer to me and I will draw closer to you. So unless someone is seeking for that truth, no amount of forum chat will change their mind, cause anyone can argue.

Actually if you are a oneness Pentecostal, I would warm to you far more than a few Trinitarians on this website. For no oneness Pentecostal has so far(hope you won't be the exception) told me I am condemned with my belief on this subject

 

[RickShafer]

Still got nothing I see.
Oh well, never mind. I didn't expect anymore.

And you can't give me one sripture to back up your argument only your theologiacal extrapolations which contradicts the plain words of Christ, John and Paul.
Still as you don't believe nearly all of the Trinitarian ministers should be in the pulpit, and you don't accedpt the words of Christ John or Paul who am I that you would believe me

You really are lost
As a minister said on another website
I will repeat
People come onto the internet, who think they know

What?
You are the one who said I was lost.......
I just pointed out that you are crazy......

 

[RickShafer]

Mark never said this. get out of your pride and listen to what he is saying. It gets sickening people come here and try to tell people what they believe, and refuse to listen to them!

Oh really E.T.?
You again stick your dirty nose in where it doesn't belong.
Dude........(mind your business)

 

[mark54]

What?
You are the one who said I was lost.......
I just pointed out that you are crazy......

Rick
You believe I am crazy, and will be condemened on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he wqalked this earth

But like I say, you are in a tiny minority, not the vast majority, But hey, this is the internet, all sorts come on here, puffed up with what they think they know

Like I say, I have been to Trinitarian churches for 30 years, never a problem, I helperd out at the church, did youth work in the clubs, gave my testimony. No doctrinal problems on this subject whatsoever
That speaks far louder than the words of a few head theologists on the internet

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh really E.T.?
You again stick your dirty nose in where it doesn't belong.
Dude........(mind your business)

lol. Mind my business?

Do you not know that saying Jesus is not the "one true God" and saying he is not The God of the OT is not the same thing?

You people do not want to listen to him, you listen to a few buzz words and assume you know everything he believes. It gets old..

if you want to attack a brother and twist what he is saying, expect to get confronted.

 

[jinx]

I don't know what the full subject is, what I do know is that people are trying to get other people to accept their point of view, when both sides are stubborn. I wont read all 51 plus pages of this topic, and I wont back up another oneness apostolic when they are fighting with another potential future apostolic on the oneness of GOD. If people are ready, they are ready. if they fight about it, they aint ready.

 

[RickShafer]

You are stuck on the term 'Trinitarian'.
I never mentioned it once.
I'm speaking of the Godship of the Son.
My whole argument was based on the Holiness of Jesus Christ.
I never once brought the term 'trinitarian' up.
And no, many people outside their right mind are saved.
God does not hold what people can not control against them.
I never once said you were lost Mark, I just said your argument wasn't making biblical sense.
- - - Namely, you said Jesus wasn't the only way to salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are stuck on the term 'Trinitarian'.
I never mentioned it once.
I'm speaking of the Godship of the Son.
My whole argument was based on the Holiness of Jesus Christ.
I never once brought the term 'trinitarian' up.
And no, many people outside their right mind are saved.
God does not hold what people can not control against them.
I never once said you were lost Mark, I just said your argument wasn't making biblical sense.
- - - Namely, you said Jesus wasn't the only way to salvation.

yet he never said this. not once has he said it. He says the opposite. but people do not see it, because they are to focused on other things he says, and not listening to what he is actually saying.

 

[mark54]

You are stuck on the term 'Trinitarian'.
I never mentioned it once.
I'm speaking of the Godship of the Son.
My whole argument was based on the Holiness of Jesus Christ.
I never once brought the term 'trinitarian' up.
And no, many people outside their right mind are saved.
God does not hold what people can not control against them.
I never once said you were lost Mark, I just said your argument wasn't making biblical sense.
- - - Namely, you said Jesus wasn't the only way to salvation.

Produce the post where I stated JESUS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER/SALVATION/TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE
If your going to have to make up lies and distortions about me, you've lost the argument

Just to be clear now from what you have written above, are you now saying a person does not have to believe cHRIST is the one true God unto salvation, it is enough to simply believe he is the Son of God?

 

[RickShafer]

yet he never said this. not once has he said it. He says the opposite. but people do not see it, because they are to focused on other things he says, and not listening to what he is actually saying.

O.K. E.G.; I'm sorry I lashed out at you.
But I have reasoned with the man to great extent.
And he has repeatedly said Jesus is not the only way to salvation.
- - - - I can pull up the references again(though I already have).
Let him speak for himself.

 

[mark54]

O.K. E.G.; I'm sorry I lashed out at you.
But I have reasoned with the man to great extent.
And he has repeatedly said Jesus is not the only way to salvation.
- - - - I can pull up the references again(though I already have).
Let him speak for himself.

Producve the post where I stated Jesus is not ther only way to salvation/TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. IF YOU CANNOT PELASE APOLOGISE

 

[mark54]

You are stuck on the term 'Trinitarian'.
I never mentioned it once.
I'm speaking of the Godship of the Son.
My whole argument was based on the Holiness of Jesus Christ.
I never once brought the term 'trinitarian' up.
And no, many people outside their right mind are saved.
God does not hold what people can not control against them.
I never once said you were lost Mark, I just said your argument wasn't making biblical sense.
- - - Namely, you said Jesus wasn't the only way to salvation.

And BTW have I been using the word Trinitarian, apart from when speaking of Trinitarian miniasters?